wy do people think jesus was god

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by Dor

Chrysostom wrote, "As the Father used this expression, "I Am," so also doth Christ; for it signifieth continuous Being, irrespective of time. On which account the expression seemed to them to be blasphemous." "Homilies on St. John"

If you do a search on the words 'I am' in the NT you will find it 698 times. It is used by John the Babtist, Peter, Paul, James and other people using the same word in Greek. Do we then equate them all with God because they use the same Greek word meaning 'I am'. Of course not.

John 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

This was Jesus's words on what he really said in response to why they were accusing him of blasphemy. If it were because he said he was God, it seems to me he would have acknowledged it here.

Would there be any more versus that might be less prone to multiple interpretations by different Christians?

Love in Christ,
JM

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by JosephM

1) Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

2) Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

3) Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

jesus is the living temple and was broken down and raised up in three days. the hidden things behind the curtain of the temple only seen by the jewish high priest is torn in half, it has been removed all mankind all may come to christ for salvation--repentance and forgiveness of sins. he makes all things new again and he is the only way to god.

god has not forgotten the promise of his chosen people and called them back to israel and allowed them to become a nation again. he will send them two witnesses in the future calling them back to the Lord Jesus Christ who is their God--a prophecy not yet fulfilled.

world peace when christ comes again to reign is a prophecy not yet fulfilled. yet those that have christ in their hearts already have peace.

The truth has come into the world and is the light of men. He is the saviour and the good news of the gospel is being spread to the entire world right now. Those that acknowledge him already as lord god and saviour are hidden in christ at judgement and are the saints of the kingdom of god, the rest will bow down regardless to the King when he comes again and judges them, the latter being another prophecy not yet fulfilled.

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by Dor

Oh it just is not even worth it any more.

Thanks anyway Dor,

I was just sharing some thinking so one might gain a better understanding of where others who believe a bit differently yet serve the same God might be coming from with their own study of the Bible. I will leave it at that while we are all respecting of each other as humans and wish you a great day.

Love in Christ,
JM

[Quahom1]

Gotta hand it to you Joseph. You are really making sure the faithful research their scriptures...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by JosephM

If you do a search on the words 'I am' in the NT you will find it 698 times. It is used by John the Babtist, Peter, Paul, James and other people using the same word in Greek. Do we then equate them all with God because they use the same Greek word meaning 'I am'. Of course not.

John 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

This was Jesus's words on what he really said in response to why they were accusing him of blasphemy. If it were because he said he was God, it seems to me he would have acknowledged it here.

Would there be any more versus that might be less prone to multiple interpretations by different Christians?

Love in Christ,
JM

Only if one misinterpets Jesus at the point that He made that statement, and I'm not talking about the words He spoke. He could not say He is God at that moment, because He was man (put aside His divinity for a time). Such a small issue, but so important in understanding His words and why He acted as He did.

The man was not God, the spirit within the flesh of the body was and is God. But He deliberately put away His godhead in order to walk as one of us...why is that so hard for some to accept?

He stated "I am", because He is. And we had to take His word on it. He was making us a promise and asking us to trust Him to fullfil it. Some did, some did not, some do not to this day.

How mind boggling, that God would lower Himself to the level of His creation, in order to elevate His creation closer to Him...

The very thought makes me want to cry.

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Only if one misinterpets Jesus at the point that He made that statement, and I'm not talking about the words He spoke. He could not say He is God at that moment, because He was man (put aside His divinity for a time). Such a small issue, but so important in understanding His words and why He acted as He did.

The man was not God, the spirit within the flesh of the body was and is God. But He deliberately put away His godhead in order to walk as one of us...why is that so hard for some to accept?

He stated "I am", because He is. And we had to take His word on it. He was making us a promise and asking us to trust Him to fullfil it. Some did, some did not, some do not to this day.

How mind boggling, that God would lower Himself to the level of His creation, in order to elevate His creation closer to Him...

The very thought makes me want to cry.

Thanks Joshua,

That is the most logical and easiest to understand response I have heard yet and still make the versus fit.

"The man was not God, the spirit within the flesh of the body was and is God. But He deliberately put away His godhead in order to walk as one of us...why is that so hard for some to accept?"

Now where does it say he put away his godhead in order to walk as one of us?

I see a man named Jesus and I see the indwelling of the spirit of God in him. What I still have a problem seeing is that Jesus the man, even though he came from God was any more God than any other man with the spirit of God in the flesh of his body. All creation comes from God. The man Jesus (the messiah) was to come from the seed of David. If God is omnipresent, then how could he be in Jesus as a man but not in the rest of his creation? That is where I have a problem understanding your point of view. Somehow I fail to see how God could 'put away his godhead' and suffer as a man while still being omnipresent, omnipotent and all-knowing. In that light, If I see Jesus as God then I see all as God.

Just a point of view with no offense meant to any who see it differently.

Love in Christ,
JM

[BlaznFattyz]

How God greatly humbled himself
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.


But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

How God greatly humbled himself
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Beautiful versus BF,

Still in them I see Paul telling us to have the mind of Christ which was also in Jesus. Jesus did not think it robbery to think oneself 'similiar' to God
isos,ee'-sos; probably from Greek 1492 (eido) (through the idea of seeming); similar .
Neither should we if the mind of Christ dwells in us. Similiar yes, equal no unless you want us to be equal also. Poor translation from original Greek. Please check your Greek dictionary to confirm.


(snip)

The rest of your post contained beautiful and inspiring versus but I read them carefully and even looked at the Greek and did not see in them that which I assume you believe they say. Again, thanks for the versus, I did enjoy reading them as they are very uplifting.

Love in christ,
JM

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by JosephM

...did not see in them that which I assume you believe they say.

i didn't get what you were trying to see or what you didn't see.

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

i didn't get what you were trying to see or what you didn't see.

I assumed you were providing versus to indicate Jesus was God as in the title of the thread. I enjoyed them but didn't see them as saying that.

Love in Christ,
JM

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by JosephM

I assumed you were providing versus to indicate Jesus was God as in the title of the thread.

they are verses about god humbling himself as a servant in the form of jesus christ for the salvation of man. jesus being god is a simple yet powerful verse in john 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Believe that and the rest of the bible will all come together.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Dor

John 8:24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

shall we read on a bit more
24 Therefore I said to you, you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am [he], you will die in your sins." 25 Therefore they began to say to him: "Who are you?" Jesus said to them: "Why am I even speaking to you at all? 26 I have many things to speak concerning you and to pass judgment upon. As a matter of fact, he that SENT ME is true, and the very things I heard from him I am speaking in the world." 27 They did not grasp that he was talking to them about the Father. 28 Therefore Jesus said: "When once you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am [he], and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things. 29 And he that sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him." 30 As he was speaking these things, many put faith in him..................so who was it that sent Jesus ,it was his father Jehovah God.
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. 18 He that exercises faith in him is not to be judged. He that does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. John 3;16-18 and yes Jesus was right, after he was lifted up on the torture stake and put to death what did those people say that were standing around by the stake, ?
When Jesus died, even the Roman soldiers standing by knew that Jesus was not God: "The army officer and those with him watching over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things happening, grew very much afraid, saying: ‘Certainly this was God’s Son.’" (Matthew 27:54) They did not say, ‘this was God’ or ‘this was God the Son,’ because Jesus and his disciples taught that Jesus was the Son of God, not God Almighty in human form.
The Father is greater than I am."—Joh 14:28.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Dor

John 13:19Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

From this moment on I am telling YOU before it occurs, in order that when it does occur YOU may believe that I am [he]. 20 Most truly I say to YOU, He that receives anyone I send receives me [also]. In turn he that receives me, receives [also] him that sent me...................... so who sent Jesus ,it was his father Jehovah God.Psalm 83;18
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
John 3;16 and who does Jesus send ? his disciples, matthew 28;19-20. and those disciples teach what Jesus taught them.
The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28)

[mee]

Originally Posted by Dor

John 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

[

yes , he was the one that the officers and pharisees were looking for, it does not mean he was God . reading the context puts things right.

Having said these things, Jesus went out with his disciples across the winter torrent of Kid´ron to where there was a garden, and he and his disciples entered into it. 2 Now Judas, his betrayer, also knew the place, because Jesus had many times met there with his disciples. 3 Therefore Judas took the soldier band and officers of the chief priests and of the Pharisees and came there with torches and lamps and weapons. 4 Jesus, therefore, knowing all the things coming upon him, went forth and said to them: "Whom are YOU looking for?" 5 They answered him: "Jesus the Naz·a·rene´." He said to them: "I am [he]." Now Judas, his betrayer, was also standing with them.

6 However, when he said to them: "I am [he]," they drew back and fell to the ground. 7 Therefore he asked them again: "Whom are YOU looking for?" They said: "Jesus the Naz·a·rene´." 8 Jesus answered: "I told YOU I am [he]. If, therefore, it is I YOU are looking for, let these go"; 9 in order that the word might be fulfilled which he said: "Of those whom you have given me I have not lost a single one." right context changes everthing.

[Dor]

like I said I am done. Everywhere in the Bible that word is is translated the same way. The one verse yall do not like you want to translate different. This is called making the Bible fit your doctrine the whole reason we have the NWT is they needed a Bible to fit their doctrine.

Anyone wants to deny Jesus feel free.
Anyone wants to delude themself and think they are his equal feel free.
Anyone wants to deny the very meaning of the word and call themself a Christian feel free.

Think it may just be time for me to take a break.