wy do people think jesus was god

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Well, we're already dividing God up into three co-equal parts, so I'm asking what the practical ramifications of having Jesus be a slightly junior partner would be. Can Jesus not save unless he's fully co-equal? Why? Or, from the non-trinitarian perspective, is there a practical difference in how salvation happens if Jesus is a created being rather than a co-equal? Does salvation itself collapse one way or the other? Why?

Chris

There is one God and one nature.The Trinity is about the three persons in one nature. There aren't any "slightly juniors". The father, son, and holy spirit are all God. I do not know anymore than that. I do know without a doubt that all three are in my heart and my salvation is secure.
Salvation comes through belief in Jesus Christ. It doesn't collapse.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

if jesus was a created being then he would be apart from god, but because jesus was the word of god and god, and because only god can forgive and save and give life which jesus does as well, he is god.

Originally Posted by pattimax

There is one God and one nature.The Trinity is about the three persons in one nature. There aren't any "slightly juniors". The father, son, and holy spirit are all God. I do not know anymore than that. I do know without a doubt that all three are in my heart and my salvation is secure.
Salvation comes through belief in Jesus Christ. It doesn't collapse.

O.K., excellent! So, from the trinitarian perspective it's incomprehensible that Jesus can occupy a lesser station than God the Father because only God can offer salvation, and any agency of that salvation must co-equate with God. Is that right? So, what's the non-trinitarian rebuttal to that? Where is the hole in that argument? What is it about the nature of salvation that trinitarianism doesn't comprehend? And specifically, why is it that Jesus need not be co-equal with God to accomplish the ends of salvation?

Chris

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

...from the trinitarian perspective it's incomprehensible that Jesus can occupy a lesser station than God the Father because only God can offer salvation, and any agency of that salvation must co-equate with God. Is that right?

Right.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

O.K., excellent! So, from the trinitarian perspective it's incomprehensible that Jesus can occupy a lesser station than God the Father because only God can offer salvation, and any agency of that salvation must co-equate with God. Is that right? So, what's the non-trinitarian rebuttal to that? Where is the hole in that argument? What is it about the nature of salvation that trinitarianism doesn't comprehend? And specifically, why is it that Jesus need not be co-equal with God to accomplish the ends of salvation?

Chris

When Jesus is not the focal point of Salvation, then the argument can be had that His presence is not required for salvation. Indeed the Jehovah's Witnesses concur that Jesus is important, but not really required, as the Father makes all the decisions.

Mormons consider Jesus a more advance version of us.

Some Catholics can get caught up in the 'diefication' of Mary, and forget the facts of salvation.

Some Christians forget the trinity all together, and focus on Jesus alone (that isn't right either, in my opinion).

Others think that Jesus is within, and hence we are our own salvation.

Others still consider Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit less than the ultimate "God", that will have nothing to do with such as man, hence the "underlings" take care of business.

Anyway it is sliced, it seems to come up short when one or two "legs" of the Trinity are removed...

v/r

Joshua

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

When Jesus is not the focal point of Salvation, then the argument can be had that His presence is not required for salvation. Indeed the Jehovah's Witnesses concur that Jesus is important, but not really required, as the Father makes all the decisions.

That's one thing I want to find out about. What exactly is Jesus' job? From both perspectives, but I'm really interested in what our JW friends will say. What role does Jesus play in salvation from his front office, senior partner perspective on the Kingdom? How does that relate to his position as the Logos in the beginning? Has he been promoted to a new office in the new Kingdom? How do his present duties contrast to his old job, and how is that a function of the plan of salvation?


Chris

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

That's one thing I want to find out about. What exactly is Jesus' job? From both perspectives, but I'm really interested in what our JW friends will say. What role does Jesus play in salvation from his front office, senior partner perspective on the Kingdom? How does that relate to his position as the Logos in the beginning? Has he been promoted to a new office in the new Kingdom? How do his present duties contrast to his old job, and how is that a function of the plan of salvation?


Chris

there is no eternal salvation without jesus. it is god's holy law, not mine or anyone elses. god required a sacrifice, and the only way to reconcile man back to god was for god to send his son to be that sacrifice for all mankind so we might all be saved. jesus' job was to become that sin, die and resurrect for our salvation and defeat death because god loves us and wishes all of us to come to him.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

That's one thing I want to find out about. What exactly is Jesus' job? From both perspectives, but I'm really interested in what our JW friends will say. What role does Jesus play in salvation from his front office, senior partner perspective on the Kingdom? How does that relate to his position as the Logos in the beginning? Has he been promoted to a new office in the new Kingdom? How do his present duties contrast to his old job, and how is that a function of the plan of salvation?


Chris

Chris,

I don't opine that Jesus has a "job", unless the salvation of Man is considered a "job" for God. The JW's perspective is quite well outlined in the thread Titled : http://www.comparative-religion.com/...vahs-3938.html

In fact the push by JWs currently is the concept of false religion (every "religion" but theirs).

That in and of itself should give you a heads up as to what Christians think. I am Catholic. Dor and FS, and Bandit, and Pattimax, and Blaze, and Juan and others are other than Catholic. But we are all Christian in the fact that we believe in Jesus as being God Almighty. And He saved us. And He wants to save all, but they have to accept His gift of salvation.

JWs do not think Jesus is God Almighty. Just a Mighty god... the rest of us consider that an insult to the "Creator of the Universe". It is also called polytheism, which Christianity is not about.

v/r

joshua

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

JWs do not think Jesus is God Almighty. Just a Mighty god...

v/r

joshua

yes that is correct , that is what the bible tells us .
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, MIGHTY GOD Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this. isaiah 9;6-7

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,

You alone are the Most High over all the earth. psalm 83;18 Jehovah is the Almighty ,Jesus is a mighty one , and Jesus is the only- begotten son of God,as John 3;16 tells me
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

(Romans 8:32) He who did not even spare his own Son but delivered him up for us all, why will he not also with him kindly give us all other things?

(1 John 4:9) By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him...........yes as the bible tells us all, Jesus is very important indeed.

[mee]

Originally Posted by pattimax

I am looking at the NWT and it refers to my Lord as a righteous sprout.
Where can I file a complaint?

Jesus was called a Nazarene, a name apparently related to the Hebrew word used in Isaiah 11:1 for "sprout
The Hebrew word for "sprout" is ne´tser, and for "Nazarene" is Nots·ri´
And there must go forth a twig out of the stump of Jes´se; and out of his roots a sprout will be fruitful. isaiah 11;1

[mee]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Let me ask a serious question: What practical difference does it make if Jesus is a created divine being and God is the most high God, versus the trinitarian construct? What does it change in the overall scheme of salvation?

Like this: "Jesus has to be co-equal with the Father because...", or "Jesus cannot be co-equal with Jehovah because...". But not because "it says so", I'm interested in the actual mechanics of salvation. Anyone want to tackle that one?

Chris

because mixing false with truth is not the truth ,and is not good in the eyes of the most high

A little leaven ferments the whole lump. Galations 5;9

[China Cat Sunflower]

So, pretty much it's because it's just inconceivable the other way, and /or because it says so. Got it.

Chris

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by pattimax

There is one God and one nature.The Trinity is about the three persons in one nature. There aren't any "slightly juniors". The father, son, and holy spirit are all God. I do not know anymore than that. I do know without a doubt that all three are in my heart and my salvation is secure.
Salvation comes through belief in Jesus Christ. It doesn't collapse.

What do you call salvation... the division of the lambs and the goats?

[Silas]

Jesus possessed all of God's attributes. Jesus did the things God alone is able to do: Forgive sin, raise the dead, called himself the "I am." Not to mention, he jutaposed God's laws with His own ideals. Who does this guy think he is? According to scriptures, He's God. I want you guys to notice something. The first person a cult goes after is always Christ. They always try to attack the diety of Jesus, the God man. If you have the wrong Jesus, you trust in an idol and thus are not saved from the wrath that is to come. But, if you have the right Jesus, your sins are forgiven and His righteousness has been imputed to your account and your sins imputed to His body on the cross.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Silas

Jesus possessed all of God's attributes. Jesus did the things God alone is able to do: Forgive sin, raise the dead, called himself the "I am." Not to mention, he jutaposed God's laws with His own ideals. Who does this guy think he is? According to scriptures, He's God. I want you guys to notice something. The first person a cult goes after is always Christ. They always try to attack the diety of Jesus, the God man. If you have the wrong Jesus, you trust in an idol and thus are not saved from the wrath that is to come. But, if you have the right Jesus, your sins are forgiven and His righteousness has been imputed to your account and your sins imputed to His body on the cross.

Uh-oh.

*ducks behind a couch whilst the fiery, flaming darts streak toward their target*

Duck, Silas, duck!

[mee]

why do people think Jesus is God? because they listen to false religious leaders who teach falsehood not based on accurate knowledge of the bible . and many have been misled down the centuries