wy do people think jesus was god

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Prober

Jesus was reminding Satan that he (Satan) very well knew that no one was to be worshipped but God. Jesus (the human part) would need to serve God, too.

Prober, I understand this part now, if Jesus was infact God. Still, I have a question: Does it matter if you believe it?

Thanks, and...


Much Love,

edit: I got your answer in previous post; I must have missed it, sorry...

[Prober]

I almost converted to Islam over this question.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Cage

Fair enough, pattimax...we all share different views, and that is one of the things that makes the Bible so intriguing.

I'd Love to continue this discussion, as we obviously share different systems of belief. Only, do not expect me to debate with you, for I will not. We can share our views, and listen, and that should suffice.


Much Love,

That is fine.
What is it specifically that you find opposed to truth in the bible?

And
You do realize that all spirits mentioned in the bible are not the holy spirit? This is where you should use your powers of discernment.

17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
Ephesians 6:17-18

Obviously your helmet is firmly in place, but your sword is questionable. You have the grip, but no blade.

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by Cage

Does it matter if people believe this, though?

If not, why do many people squabble about it? Must you believe Jesus was God to know God? What about the following?

(snip)

Much Love,

Hello Cage,

I think you bring up an excellent point. The problem is that most but not all Christian churches require this statement of belief to be called a Christian. The Nicene creed specifies it specifically. In my view if Jesus required it, he would not have beat around the bush and called himself the Son of man, the son of God, a servant of God and many of the other things he said. Trinity doctrines are difficult for many to understand and my personal experience is that an understanding is not required for the new birth experience. (born again) People were first called Christians (Christ-like) in Antioch (Acts 11:26) There wasn't even a formal NT existing at the time. In my view, it is more a doctrine of man than anything else and wasn't required to be called a Christian in those days.

Love in Christ,
JM

[Cage]

Originally Posted by pattimax

That is fine.
What is it specifically that you find opposed to truth in the bible?

And
You do realize that all spirits mentioned in the bible are not the holy spirit? This is where you should use your powers of discernment.

17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
Ephesians 6:17-18

Obviously your helmet is firmly in place, but your sword is questionable. You have the grip, but no blade.

Hi, pattimax...

I don't want to point out specifics, but I have my doubts about the wrath, fierce anger, and jealousy of my God. I must admit that I haven't ventured into the OT much in recent days, and I am a bit biased. What God has shown me is in stark contrast to these attributes, so yes, I have my doubts.

Then, who knows the mind of God? Not me, but I feel like I know the mind of Christ, as he was the Word in which I recieved. Jesus was not a wrathful man, nor was he jealous; he showed anger, but his anger was mild and brief.

If I am to follow him, I must also do my best to be like him, and do as he did, which was spread the Love of God. These are my views, pattimax, and I see no error in Gods Love. I do not attempt to correct a persons error, as Love has the ability to do this on its own. I have my own problems to fix...

So, I am wondering about the 'blade' of the spirit that you say I lack...

Sure, there many spirits mentioned in the Bible, but only one is Holy as far as I can see. Then my sight could be narrow, as I have not willingly embraced other spirits. Am I denying myself the fulness of God? I don't seek to be like God, but like his Son...Meek, humble, gentle, and Loving. This is the Gospel of Christ, and this is what I chose to embrace. I think this is the will of God...that we [mankind] embrace this.

Does this make me foolish, that I choose to see God in such a light? (The same light that I see my savior)

I obviously don't see everything the same way most Christians see them, but does that make me wrong? We all live in some error, pattimax. This is the human condition, but will that error cause me to fail God?


Much Love,

[Cage]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Hello Cage,

I think you bring up an excellent point. The problem is that most but not all Christian churches require this statement of belief to be called a Christian. The Nicene creed specifies it specifically. In my view if Jesus required it, he would not have beat around the bush and called himself the Son of man, the son of God, a servant of God and many of the other things he said. Trinity doctrines are difficult for many to understand and my personal experience is that an understanding is not required for the new birth experience. (born again) People were first called Christians (Christ-like) in Antioch (Acts 11:26) There wasn't even a formal NT existing at the time. In my view, it is more a doctrine of man than anything else and wasn't required to be called a Christian in those days.

Love in Christ,
JM

Thank you Joseph, I feel the same way. I would sometimes stumble when this view was thrown at me; particularly when they suggested that I must believe this to be 'saved'. I feel I know what salvation is now, and these views somehow seem to distort my own. I shouldn't let this happen, but I am new in Christ, and have not yet come to a pure completion.


Much Love,

[Dor]

Originally Posted by Cage

Hi, pattimax...

I don't want to point out specifics, but I have my doubts about the wrath, fierce anger, and jealousy of my God. I must admit that I haven't ventured into the OT much in recent days, and I am a bit biased. What God has shown me is in stark contrast to these attributes, so yes, I have my doubts.

Then, who knows the mind of God? Not me, but I feel like I know the mind of Christ, as he was the Word in which I recieved. Jesus was not a wrathful man, nor was he jealous; he showed anger, but his anger was mild and brief.

If I am to follow him, I must also do my best to be like him, and do as he did, which was spread the Love of God. These are my views, pattimax, and I see no error in Gods Love. I do not attempt to correct a persons error, as Love has the ability to do this on its own. I have my own problems to fix...

So, I am wondering about the 'blade' of the spirit that you say I lack...

Sure, there many spirits mentioned in the Bible, but only one is Holy as far as I can see. Then my sight could be narrow, as I have not willingly embraced other spirits. Am I denying myself the fulness of God? I don't seek to be like God, but like his Son...Meek, humble, gentle, and Loving. This is the Gospel of Christ, and this is what I chose to embrace. I think this is the will of God...that we [mankind] embrace this.

Does this make me foolish, that I choose to see God in such a light? (The same light that I see my savior)

I obviously don't see everything the same way most Christians see them, but does that make me wrong? We all live in some error, pattimax. This is the human condition, but will that error cause me to fail God?


Much Love,

Check out all the verses about the second coming of Christ in the NT and tell me about his wrath and anger.

[Dor]

It is very easy Cage or JosephM or Wil or anyone.
Can you raise the dead?
Can you forgive sins?
Did you create everything?
Can you heal the blind, the sick?
Cast out demons, turn water to wine?
among many other things?

No and Jesus could not have either if he was just a man!

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by Dor

It is very easy Cage or JosephM or Wil or anyone.
Can you raise the dead?
Can you forgive sins?
Did you create everything?
Can you heal the blind, the sick?
Cast out demons, turn water to wine?
among many other things?

No and Jesus could not have either if he was just a man!

Actually Dor,

If you are born of the spirit you are no only man but also a son of God.
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

And if you realized your authority in God you could at least forgive sins, heal the blind and sick, cast out demons and raise the dead among other things. These all can be found in your NT as things you can do if you had the faith.
Also read this....
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Love in Christ,
JM

PS It would be nice if you would not be so quick to answer No for other people to questions you asked of other people before they have a chance to answer.

[shadowman]

wow god can turn water into wine!

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Dor

It is very easy Cage or JosephM or Wil or anyone.
Can you raise the dead?
Can you forgive sins?
Did you create everything?
Can you heal the blind, the sick?
Cast out demons, turn water to wine?
among many other things?

No and Jesus could not have either if he was just a man!

your "satan" can raise the dead... He could forgive sins he can heal he can cast out demons or turn water to wine he could make a rainbow shine out of his rear end... he could turn your nose purple... Is he your god?

"What we think, we become."

[Dor]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Actually Dor,

If you are born of the spirit you are no only man but also a son of God.
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

And if you realized your authority in God you could at least forgive sins, heal the blind and sick, cast out demons and raise the dead among other things. These all can be found in your NT as things you can do if you had the faith.
Also read this....
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Love in Christ,
JM

PS It would be nice if you would not be so quick to answer No for other people to questions you asked of other people before they have a chance to answer.

Oh so you think man and God are equal? I have read that. Difference is I read it all in context.

Also there is a little difference between being a son of God and the Son of God. Sorry no one baptises in the name of the Father, John and the Holy Spirit.

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by Dor

Oh so you think man and God are equal? I have read that. Difference is I read it all in context.

Also there is a little difference between being a son of God and the Son of God. Sorry no one baptises in the name of the Father, John and the Holy Spirit.

Ok Dor,

Your original question had to do with miracles not words used in a Baptism. You said "No and Jesus could not have either if he was just a man!"

Before Jesus came on the seen as a man, Elisha was a man and in Kings 4:32-35 he raised the dead.

Paul was a man after Jesus came on the scene and in Acts 20:9-10 he raised the dead.

Read it how you like. There are many other miracles that his disciples and followers as men did but you can read them for yourself.
James 5:17
Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

So Okay Dor, in my view we are according to your definition more than just a man. We are a son of God. If your understanding is different, so be it.

Love in Christ,
JMl

[Dor]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Ok Dor,

Your original question had to do with miracles not words used in a Baptism. You said "No and Jesus could not have either if he was just a man!"

Before Jesus came on the seen as a man, Elisha was a man and in Kings 4:32-35 he raised the dead.

Paul was a man after Jesus came on the scene and in Acts 20:9-10 he raised the dead.

Read it how you like. There are many other miracles that his disciples and followers as men did but you can read them for yourself.
James 5:17
Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

So Okay Dor, in my view we are according to your definition more than just a man. We are a son of God. If your understanding is different, so be it.

Love in Christ,
JMl

Yes so did Peter and Elijah. They did not do it cause they decided to though it was caused God decided to.

Jesus was a tad different in he said He gives life to whom he will.

Yes if God decides I should raise the dead or heal my wife then I can surely do it. I can not do it just cause I decide I want to.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Dor

Yes if God decides I should raise the dead or heal my wife then I can surely do it. I can not do it just cause I decide I want to.

You never know... There are some "spooky" stories out there Dor..