You still cant fathom it (even though I mentioned it)

Silas · 02-06-2007, 08:36 PM

When people talk about Jesus' death, why do they always talk about the beatings and the crucifixion as if that was the worst part? OK granted, Jesus did no doubt go through some crazy stuff. They ripped his beard out (ouch!). They spat on him and mocked Him. They whipped Him until he was a bloodly pulp. The struck Him over and over in His head and face with sticks. They nailed His hands and feet to a cross and crucified Him. Now, no doubt crucifixion was crazy. I mean, every breath you took was painful! It lead to less and less air in the lungs, it lead to flesh being torn through the nails, and cardiac arrest, etc. But honestly, none of that was anything to be compared to what Jesus went through on the cross. Remember the prophecies of Jesus in Isa 53 v 10? I mean that whole chapter deals with what Jesus went through, but verse 10 is the crux. It says "it pleased the father to crush the Son." Thats what really occured on the cross.

Thats what Jesus was afarid of in the garden before He was arrested. Remember, He was so afarid that He said, "if there is another way, let that occure. But, nevertheless, not my will but yours be done." On the cross when Jesus took upon Himself the sins of the world, He faced Hell, for God the Father crushed Him. The fierce wrath of the Almight God came upon Him and puished He who was without sin for those that would trust in Him. God is way too Holy to let sin go unpunished. He's NOT going to say "oh, everyone makes mistake." Look at what He did to Jesus. If you dont trust in Him whereby you can be saved because He paid sin's price, you will have to pay your own. And thats crazy.
<admin edit>

*See Silas, you are capable of writing some interesting and thought provoking material...but the name calling and accusations have got to stop. -jt3

Quahom1 · 02-07-2007, 04:55 AM

And just what makes you think we aren't aware of the agony of Jesus? And no He wasn't afraid of hell. He went there for three days, with specific purpose in mind. What He was afraid of was the cruelty of his death (actually what would preceed it). He was after all, human and subject to the insanity that such cruelty could bring to the mind.

Jesus was afraid because He was taking on the world's sin, and God the Father can not look upon sin, so Jesus would have to go it alone...the "man" was afraid He might not be able to handle it.

With no God head, and no support from God, Jesus faced torment and death as a man...

The Father had never left Jesus alone, through His whole life, but for that moment. The Father turned His back on Jesus, and Jesus was dejected. THAT was His greatest fear...to suffer in solitude.

But He made it through, then released His spirit. And the rest as they say, is history...

Hell wasn't His worry. Being alone and isolated from the Father was, even for a moment...

v/r

Joshua

Prober · 02-07-2007, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

If you dont trust in Him whereby you can be saved because He paid sin's price, you will have to pay your own. And thats crazy.

AMEN!

Quahom1 · 02-07-2007, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prober

AMEN!

some people insist on paying their own way...I think Jesus works with them as well...

Silas · 02-07-2007, 05:25 AM

Quahom

And just what makes you think we aren't aware of the agony of Jesus?

Hey Josh! I dont know...I just it would be interesting to write this.

And no He wasn't afraid of hell. He went there for three days, with specific purpose in mind.

You believe Jesus actually went to hell, like the place were unrepentent sinners go? Is that how you understand that verse?

What He was afraid of was the cruelty of his death (actually what would preceed it).He was after all, human and subject to the insanity that such cruelty could bring to the mind.

You think the Son of God, albeit, God in the flesh, was afarid of nails and beatings? Nah, thats not it. It was the seperation of the Father whom He shared increible and indscrible joy with in Eternity combined with the Holy wrath of God, which was expressed on the cross, that He feared. Nails and beatings and whipings were nothing to be compared to the Father crushing the Son.

Jesus was afraid because He was taking on the world's sin, and God the Father can not look upon sin, so Jesus would have to go it alone...the "man" was afraid He might not be able to handle it.

Thats a part of it - Seperation, I mean. If I can go anything, I'd like to bring Glory to God and encoragement to the saints of God by being able to express in words the contents of the Gospel. I'll make that my next post, probably?

With no God head, and no support from God, Jesus faced torment and death as a man...The Father had never left Jesus alone, through His whole life, but for that moment. The Father turned His back on Jesus, and Jesus was dejected. THAT was His greatest fear...to suffer in solitude. Hell wasn't His worry. Being alone and isolated from the Father was, even for a moment...

You have to be able to get your understanding from scripture, bro and not conjecture. Read the prophecies concerning Christ suffering and you'll see what He feared. It wasnt man and it wasnt just a seperation from God. It was God's wrath against sin.

Quahom1 · 02-07-2007, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

Quahom

And just what makes you think we aren't aware of the agony of Jesus?

Hey Josh! I dont know...I just it would be interesting to write this.

And no He wasn't afraid of hell. He went there for three days, with specific purpose in mind.

You believe Jesus actually went to hell, like the place were unrepentent sinners go? Is that how you understand that verse?

What He was afraid of was the cruelty of his death (actually what would preceed it).He was after all, human and subject to the insanity that such cruelty could bring to the mind.

You think the Son of God, albeit, God in the flesh, was afarid of nails and beatings? Nah, thats not it. It was the seperation of the Father whom He shared increible and indscrible joy with in Eternity combined with the Holy wrath of God, which was expressed on the cross, that He feared. Nails and beatings and whipings were nothing to be compared to the Father crushing the Son.

Jesus was afraid because He was taking on the world's sin, and God the Father can not look upon sin, so Jesus would have to go it alone...the "man" was afraid He might not be able to handle it.

Thats a part of it - Seperation, I mean. If I can go anything, I'd like to bring Glory to God and encoragement to the saints of God by being able to express in words the contents of the Gospel. I'll make that my next post, probably?

With no God head, and no support from God, Jesus faced torment and death as a man...The Father had never left Jesus alone, through His whole life, but for that moment. The Father turned His back on Jesus, and Jesus was dejected. THAT was His greatest fear...to suffer in solitude. Hell wasn't His worry. Being alone and isolated from the Father was, even for a moment...

You have to be able to get your understanding from scripture, bro and not conjecture. Read the prophecies concerning Christ suffering and you'll see what He feared. It wasnt man and it wasnt just a seperation from God. It was God's wrath against sin.

We know He went into hell, and He preached the word there. He made it clear that death was defeated. His preaching wasn't to men I don't think, but to the fallen sons of God. I do think He opened the gates of Hades for those holding in promise of the messiah.

Jesus, was stripped of His epidermus via cat 'o nine tails, with metal and bone at the ends. His visage was unrecognizable. But most importantly, He was dying alone. None of us have to die alone now, thanks to Jesus.

I have my understanding from scripture, thank you. And the strongest angst Jesus had with the Father during His turmoil was summed up in this cry: "Why have you foresaken me?" As I said, for once, at His lowest point, He was isolated. Had nothing to do with the wrath of God the Father. It had to do with God the Father turning away from Jesus (because He could not look upon the ugliness of sin). Jesus was alone.

That's my take.

v/r

Joshua

Silas · 02-07-2007, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

We know He went into hell, and He preached the word there. He made it clear that death was defeated. His preaching wasn't to men I don't think, but to the fallen sons of God. I do think He opened the gates of Hades for those holding in promise of the messiah.

Jesus, was stripped of His epidermus via cat 'o nine tails, with metal and bone at the ends. His visage was unrecognizable. But most importantly, He was dying alone. None of us have to die alone now, thanks to Jesus.

I have my understanding from scripture, thank you. And the strongest angst Jesus had with the Father during His turmoil was summed up in this cry: "Why have you foresaken me?" As I said, for once, at His lowest point, He was isolated. Had nothing to do with the wrath of God the Father. It had to do with God the Father turning away from Jesus (because He could not look upon the ugliness of sin). Jesus was alone.

That's my take.

v/r

Joshua

K. But consider Isa 53. God's wrath is more than seperation, its God's anger poured out in full force. All of this language is expressed throughout the Bible, both in the old and new testaments. I'm not saying you're wrong. In fact, I agree with you. All Im saying is that God's wrath is way more than seperation. When Jesus drank the cup of God's wrath as the Bible said He did, it was more than just the Father turning away. It was Him becoming a curse for sin and paying price of sin within His body. Think about that kind of punishment in light of time. How can one man drain the cup of God's wrath that would have taken an eternity to pour out on me? That kind of lauguage I fear we might not fully grasp on this side of eternity? About Jesus going to hell, I dont know too much about that. I'll have to study that. Right now I'm of the opinion that He didnt go to hell, i.e., the place where unregenerated sinners go. I think the answer might be found in the greek language and if it may be something or some where else. I could be wrong though!

Quahom1 · 02-07-2007, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

K. But consider Isa 53. God's wrath is more than seperation, its God's anger poured out in full force. All of this language is expressed throughout the Bible, both in the old and new testaments. I'm not saying you're wrong. In fact, I agree with you. All Im saying is that God's wrath is way more than seperation. When Jesus drank the cup of God's wrath as the Bible said He did, it was more than just the Father turning away. It was Him becoming a curse for sin and paying price of sin within His body. Think about that kind of punishment in light of time. How can one man drain the cup of God's wrath that would have taken an eternity to pour out on me? That kind of lauguage I fear we might not fully grasp on this side of eternity? About Jesus going to hell, I dont know too much about that. I'll have to study that. Right now I'm of the opinion that He didnt go to hell, i.e., the place where unregenerated sinners go. I think the answer might be found in the greek language and if it may be something or some where else. I could be wrong though!

lol, to whom? All mankind? If you say to all mankind then you are "preaching" to the choir "here". Christians already know that.

Silas, God said be BOLD, but not disrespectful. BOLD, means do not faulter or be faint of heart in your expression and belief in Jesus the Christ. But it does not mean shove it down peoples' throats...you've yet to learn that part, I should think.

v/r

Joshua

Quahom1 · 02-07-2007, 07:06 AM

Right now...today, we are in a state of grace. I think, I would pray on that.

v/r

Q

Dondi · 02-07-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

K. But consider Isa 53. God's wrath is more than seperation, its God's anger poured out in full force. All of this language is expressed throughout the Bible, both in the old and new testaments. I'm not saying you're wrong. In fact, I agree with you. All Im saying is that God's wrath is way more than seperation. When Jesus drank the cup of God's wrath as the Bible said He did, it was more than just the Father turning away. It was Him becoming a curse for sin and paying price of sin within His body. Think about that kind of punishment in light of time. How can one man drain the cup of God's wrath that would have taken an eternity to pour out on me? That kind of lauguage I fear we might not fully grasp on this side of eternity? About Jesus going to hell, I dont know too much about that. I'll have to study that. Right now I'm of the opinion that He didnt go to hell, i.e., the place where unregenerated sinners go. I think the answer might be found in the greek language and if it may be something or some where else. I could be wrong though!

I'd like to know what scriptures indicate that God's wrath was poured out on Jesus. I know that Jesus became sin for us, but I don't remember Him being the subject of God's wrath. Can you help me out here?

Prober · 02-07-2007, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

some people insist on paying their own way...I think Jesus works with them as well...

I think Jesus works on (or with) everybody. I just wouldn't know how to do it by myself, I need the help.

inhumility · 02-07-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

K. But consider Isa 53. God's wrath is more than seperation, its God's anger poured out in full force. All of this language is expressed throughout the Bible, both in the old and new testaments. I'm not saying you're wrong. In fact, I agree with you. All Im saying is that God's wrath is way more than seperation. When Jesus drank the cup of God's wrath as the Bible said He did, it was more than just the Father turning away. It was Him becoming a curse for sin and paying price of sin within His body. Think about that kind of punishment in light of time. How can one man drain the cup of God's wrath that would have taken an eternity to pour out on me? That kind of lauguage I fear we might not fully grasp on this side of eternity? About Jesus going to hell, I dont know too much about that. I'll have to study that. Right now I'm of the opinion that He didnt go to hell, i.e., the place where unregenerated sinners go. I think the answer might be found in the greek language and if it may be something or some where else. I could be wrong though!

JesusYeshuaIssa was a true ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH; there is no question of wrath of GodAllahYHWH being on him. JesusYeshuaIssa was amongst the PerfectMen of GodAllahYHWH who received unending bounties from Him. His heart was pure from any curse being thrown on him, and he never went to hell, his permanent abode is in heaven. My belief based on a number of reasons is that his supplications in the garden of Gethsemane were heard and accepted by GodAllahYHWH and JesusYeshuaIssa did not die on Cross. This was a mercy from Him. If my friends here would only allow me I can prove it with many solid proofs, GodAllahYHWH willing. Sorry for my interruption, but my love of JesusYeshuaIssa couldn’t resist it expressing.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam working for unity of all religions of the world with peaceful means.

Dondi · 02-07-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inhumility

JesusYeshuaIssa was a true ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH; there is no question of wrath of GodAllahYHWH being on him. JesusYeshuaIssa was amongst the PerfectMen of GodAllahYHWH who received unending bounties from Him. His heart was pure from any curse being thrown on him, and he never went to hell, his permanent abode is in heaven. My belief based on a number of reasons is that his supplications in the garden of Gethsemane were heard and accepted by GodAllahYHWH and JesusYeshuaIssa did not die on Cross. This was a mercy from Him. If my friends here would only allow me I can prove it with many solid proofs, GodAllahYHWH willing. Sorry for my interruption, but my love of JesusYeshuaIssa couldn’t resist it expressing.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam working for unity of all religions of the world with peaceful means.

Excuse me, sir, I believe you are in the wrong board. The Islam board is due south.

Prober · 02-07-2007, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

All Im saying is that God's wrath is way more than seperation. When Jesus drank the cup of God's wrath as the Bible said He did, it was more than just the Father turning away. It was Him becoming a curse for sin and paying price of sin within His body. Think about that kind of punishment in light of time. How can one man drain the cup of God's wrath that would have taken an eternity to pour out on me? That kind of lauguage I fear we might not fully grasp on this side of eternity?

I haven't really thought about this concept, Silas. Thanks for bringing it up.

Silas · 02-07-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Excuse me, sir, I believe you are in the wrong board. The Islam board is due south.