Zero Point Musings

[flowperson]

Hi TE...If you think those were good, try this REAL science feature TA !

flow....http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...lie_Rose&hl=en

[Tao_Equus]

Thanks again Flo
I have looked at all of them now.

I thought you might enjoy something of a similar nature I found by the esteemed philosopher in theoretical physics Billy Connolly.

YouTube - Billy Connolly Gets A Bit Angry At The Audience

Enjoy

Tao

[Tao_Equus]

Hi Juantoo , my apologies for the delay in my response.

Originally Posted by juantoo3

I am woefully ignorant on this subject of Zero Point Field. Going by what has been brought about here though, I find myself in general agreement with the similarity with Jung's concept of collective consciousness. I also like the "soup" analogy.

I agree and from what I have read of Jung I feel he would have embraced the theory quickly, indeed it maybe through reading Jung in my youth I found it so easy to find merit in ZPF.

I am always hesitant to use Occam's Razor without first covering every base. Because an explanation may seem credible and "easily understood" doesn't by default make it "fact," particularly if there are bases left uncovered.

I agree entirely. One thing about me is I never believe 100%* Really what I was referring to was the bias in funding toward the trendy ideas of super-string theory. There is evidence that ZPF exists and we can test it and with funding expand our knowledge by that testing. But research budgets are all spent on virtually untestable ideas at the moment. Dont get me wrong, I actually like to imagine that string theory has merit and is related to ZPF very closely. Science has never been very good at holism tho.

If I understand Jung correctly (and he was quite oblique, at least in what I have seen), the collective consciousness is more an evolutionary subset of the mind's processes. Oh boy, is that ever vague. It is the result of generations and centuries of past experiences and "knowledge" that a given person can potentially access. Not that this would specifically take away from the association with a Zero Point Field, but that the association might as easily be tenuous at best. Looks good on paper, but I don't know if it will hold water. I have only a cursory familiarity with Jung (despite a modest fascination with the guy). I think the concept was that a person could tie into the collective memories of all ancestors...which ultimately is everyone. Jung used this concept to describe certain common themes found in dreams, art and religion. Caves for instance, might hold a symbolic meaning tied to the womb. This is then extended to imply why some art and religious symbolism holds nearly universal appeal and meaning. As well as why we have certain themes repeated cross culturally through dreams, themes like flying or falling. I'm stretching my memory here, its been awhile, but I seem to recall what Jung might have called "supermen" or "heroes" as well as various villains and monsters to vanquish. So in the Jungian sense, by the man who coined the term, I'm not fully certain I could make the distinct connection with ZPF.

I once read something by Jung... to paraphrase "The answers to all questions from all times are already within our ability to grasp, it is just knowing how to grasp those answers with the mind that is the difficulty" I think this statement is one of the best references to ZPF I have encountered. Not surprisingly Jung was fascinated by the Tao and had a very healthy respect for 'ancient wisdom'. For Aboriginals, Native Americans and many other ancient cultures that live(d) in harmony with their environment ZPF was a fact of life. The Dreamtime for example is the ZPF. With the rise of empirical science we became deluded into thinking that we were omnipotent and could replace complex systems with a single artificial structure. It has thankfully not taken long to see the folly of such ego. The collective is a single thing. Nothing stands alone.

I do not know if you followed the links to what Flow kindly posted, but it links in at this point. The first link is an extended interview with an author, Greg Braden. A striking thing about the interview is how tenuous and difficult to describe what are exactly the properties of what he calls "The Devine Matrix", (repeatedly as it is the name of the book he is plugging). I am in accord with some of what he says but he is far too intent on making a living as an author and dresses the ideas up to be palatable fodder for science minded new-agers. Perhaps being a Scot has instilled in me a pragmatism that is at odds with such 'prettying up' as Mr Braden seems to enjoy. Despite that he is grasping at the same ideas. And here at CR many threads I come across ask questions that can all be encompassed in ZPF theory.. everything from homeopathy to sense of God.
On the homoeopathy thread I gave an account of a visit to a practitioner who spent about 3 hours talking about all aspects of my life before making up this vial of dilute up for me. In the last 5 minutes he told me that it would not work if I did not give up coffee. Now you may think this is a reasonable and relatively easy and perhaps necessary and logical demand. But it is not. Coffee is not the issue, its his demand that I make a sacrifice. He did not do this so I would have to make some investment in effort, nor because coffee blocks homoeopathic remedies. He did it because he knew I would not give up coffee. So his vial was useless, the long wait to see him was in vain, and he could safely for himself say it was my fault. What he did wrong was subtle but profound. An innocuous sacrifice was a spanner in the works and a product of his ego and not of necessity. And this is the key to why so many doctors fail. Ego. They 'get off' on a notion of superiority and require that you fail because you did not follow their commands. To back this up in a WHO report on the pharmaceuticals industry out of the many 1000s of licensed products less than 50 were deemed essential. How does this relate to ZPF? Well my belief is that a "good and effective" doctor does not cure you with drugs or remedies but with his will to make you well. And it is through the ZPF this can be manifested. Unfortunately the vast majority of doctors are far more concerned with the accumulation of personal wealth and have a vested interest in your health remaining bad. You may think that cynical and overtly suspicious but i believe it to be true. So my doctor by his words turned this vial of remedy into a poison to sustain my ailment, by conjuring failure at the last moment. lol, I sound paranoid, but let me tell you I went on through my own force of will to self-cure the problem. And I still drink coffee.

Having said this, ZPF is an intriguing concept. Then again, so was cold fusion. Perhaps there is something at the root of ZPF that will persist and make itself known over time, that is part of the beauty of science. Plate Tectonics was first laughed out the doors of academia when first proposed, so I have read. Now it is fairly well understood. Perhaps there is something of merit to ZPF that will make itself overwhelmingly understood in time to science, but it will take time, and lots of brainpower and experiment, to see.

As I said above, and indeed one of the things I agree with Greg Braden on, is that mankind has long known, understood and used the ZPF. How can we not since it is analogous to the very fabric of the universe. I like to think of it as a huge brain. Each of us is in some sense a neuron firing off within that brain, we pass information to other neurons and collectively they assimilate, analyse, project and then instigate a response. Much of what a brain does is apparently mechanical and unconscious and so is ZPF. But some things are not, effort of will is powerful. A genuine prayer (for want of a better word) is as powerful as a physical action. We get what we expect in life, more or less, and what we expect is at the mercy of our own self-belief and aspiration. Ambition is prayer. Prayer with a degree of self-belief to manifest ones dreams. When you have this working for you it seems that the universe is bending things to your will, people come into your life, events conspire with your needs. This is the harnessing of the nature of ZPF. And in certain esoteric groups this has long been known. I would cite the arcane kabalistic practices of high echelon Masonic and Jewish groups as a good example of ancient knowledge of ZPF. ZPF is real and it works and this is why these groups have sought to keep this hidden knowledge for themselves. And perhaps this is why research budgets are denied, advocates ridiculed and the masses denied a fair share in this most biased and unfair world.

Regards

Tao

*While writing and searching for supportive information I came across this small clip of Jung. Seems everything I say is Jungian :P

YouTube - Carl Jung Speaks About Death