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Well, what does the Bible say? That's where I would look first.

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I saw a video somewhere that showed short clips of the people in charge of departments of health all over the west. This included people all over Europe, U.S., Canada, and so on. Some were at the federal level, some were at the state level, and some were at the city level. The majority were...

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When it comes to beliefs (religious, political, etc.) I have taught my step-daughter the following: 1. Are the people of this group honest? If not, they're not worth your time. 2. Are the people of this group happy? Do you see a lot of laughter amongst their friends? Do the people of this...

I'm not disagreeing with you. Just pointing out the logic behind the idea that Q, if it existed, was written down. It's a lot of writing that was apparently written down verbatim. I can't even prove if Q source existed, much less prove if it was oral tradition or written scripture.

Thanks for the elaboration Thomas. As I stated to Wil earlier, I'm going off of my memory of research from 25 years ago. I don't know of any "scholars" that claimed that the Q source was Jesus Himself. I just recall believers making the claim that Jesus was the Q source (not a written source...

Wil, it has been 25 years since I researched this topic. I'm going off of memory. My understanding wasn't that Jesus wrote the Q source, He WAS the Q source for some believers. My point is simple. If a Q source did indeed exist, the "Gospel of Thomas" didn't quote it. It quoted many...

Perhaps. However it is amazing that Matthew and Luke would at times, word for word, have the exact same account from an oral source. Not impossible, but not probable.

Same toy math applies to toddlers as well!

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My apologies. It seemed to me like you were trying to push the Gospel of John to a later date while trying to push the "Gospel of Thomas" to an earlier date. If that was not your intention than I apologize. "Q source" is the source that scholars believe the 4 gospels came from. Believers see...

Your comparison is better than my Pluto comparison.

As I told Wil, this would be a nice subject to either bump or start over on a thread. I'm super busy with my kids right now, so I'm sure Thomas would have a wealth of information on this subject. As would others. I don't want to get off the subject of Thomas right now.

And bats were probably considered birds by scientists at one time... so are we defending old classifications now? Not trying to stoke an old debate, just seeing some irony here. My comparison was simple. Trying to make the claim that the "Gospel of Thomas" is the exact same type of source as...

I find it funny that you do whatever you can to try to push the date of authorship of the 4 gospels to a later date... while trying to shove the Gospel of Thomas to an earlier date. Even the biggest skeptics of the 4 gospels admit they had some sort of Q source. At the same time the biggest...

1. I "refuse" Mark and Luke? Mark wasn't one of the 12 but he was Simon Peter's close colleague who followed him around during the events of the gospels. Therefore a witness. Luke admits that he didn't witness all of the events of the gospels. But he makes no such disclaimer about the book...

If you'd like to debate about the authors of the 4 gospels, feel free to either bump a thread on the matter (there has to be at least one on here) or start a new thread. That is if you want to debate about it. Either way, my point is quite valid. The 4 gospels are at worst second-hand...

1. Not what I said. Read what I wrote again. 2. Not my opinion. Let us use a similar analogy. You claim Pluto is the 9th planet. I point out that Pluto is classified as a dwarf planet and not considered to be the 9th planet. You dismiss it as my opinion. I'm just stating what the...

So Matthew and John never met Jesus? Weird since they were part of the original 12.