Satan accuses us before God

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by soleil10, Jan 3, 2009.

  1. Azure24

    Azure24 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, niether do I know what your talking about either... That's not my post...

    Does love originate from man?

    But that's not the point. Your not trying to prove man does not have "free choice", your trying to prove man has "free will".

    Our choices are either caused by our Heart, or by God...

    We Will ALL do God's Will. After all God created the Heart...

    But some do not suffer. Some love their life...It is The Heart that must suffer...

    What nonsense is this?

    Jesus doesn't need to marry to a person to have a family....

    The Flesh profits nothing...

    "It is the spirit that quickens [gives life]; the flesh profits nothing..."(John 6:63)

    We no longer know Jesus in the flesh...

    There is no spirirual Eve...Adam died for his bride (Eve). Jesus died for His bride (the church).

    So basically you're saying God is a Hermaphrodite...

    I feel sorry for you...The laws of nature do not apply to God.

    "God is not a MAN…" (Num. 23:19)

    God is NIETHER male or female...God created gender...God is above all creation...



    Alot was given to Israel (Jews) alot was asked...But Israel (Jews) turned away from God...

    The Gentiles are the "true Jew"

    "For he is NOT a Jew, which is one outwardly [physically circumcised and of the physical line of Abraham] neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh: But he IS a Jew which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and NOT of the letter [context, context, context: literal, literal, literal]; whose praise is not of men, but of God" (Rom. 2:28-29).

    Is Israel Abrahams' seed?

    "Not as though the word of God has taken none effect
    [God is not contradicting here]. For they are NOT all Israel, which are Israel. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children, but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the FLESH, these are NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: but the children of the PROMISE ARE counted for the seed" (Rom. 9:6-8).


    Who are the children of the promise...

    "And if you [Paul is writing to GENTILE Galatians] be Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s SEED, and HEIRS according to the PROMISE" (Gal. 3:29).

    Close, but not close enough...We are ACCOUNTABLE for our sins (only OUR sins).

    God TAKES responsiblilty for our own sins, family sins and collective sins...
     
  2. soleil10

    soleil10 Well-Known Member

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    The initial source of love is God. It originated from Him. Love needs 2 to be experienced. God wants divine love from man. He cannot experience love just by Himself. This is such an important point to understand.

    We have the free will to choose.

    I was talking about the creation excluding man

    It is not nonsense at all. You cannot remove and uproot the original sin from this earth in any other way. Adam and Eve were real physical human beings. The original sin is transmitted from generation to generation through the blood lineage.
    How are you going to build the Kingdom of heaven on the earth if the original sin is still in all of us.
    Religion is not something that is upthere on some clouds. Without Jesus(the Messiah) cleansing the blood lineage, Satan will never be defeated.
    (The vine and the bread used during masses symbolise the blood and the body of Jesus). It has to happen in reality.
    The first thing in the NT is the list of Jesus lineage. That is there for a reason. For instance, what women like Haggar did for God was to reverse the process of the fall and protect Jesus lineage). The bible is based on real situations with a spiritual meaning. Jesus was a real person in the flesh

    The church has to be like a bride keeping the light on waiting for the bridegroom. That is the attitude to have. The banquet of the lamb is the marriage of the Messiah with his bride. A rea bride not the church.

    Men resent this idea of becoming Jesus' bride. Because Jesus coud not marry, because St Paul said it was better not to marry, because catholic priests are not married for a 1000 year now, there is great confusion for Christianity to protect the family from the assault of homosexual marriages.

    Christianity is weak in defending marriage and family because of a misunderstanding of the fall and Jesus course. Unless Christianity deals we this, we will continue to struglle in responding to the culture/spiritual war.

    Satan and his friends are lauhging at us because they know Christinity is confused about these issues.

    God created the laws of nature, the law of physics. He is the greatest scientist. He knows His own laws. We are learning about them.

    God's creation is a reflection of the designer. We can learn about God through His creation.
    Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.... (Rom 1:20)

    Everything in the creation from below the atom all the way up to man is male and female or + and -
    Animal, plants, are, the sun and the moon. Everything is. It is a reflection of God masciulinity and femininity.

    Christianity is the second Israel. We should not make the same mistake. God's blessing would go to the gentiles again.

    I do not agree with that. That is not what I see in the bible or in history. Ancestral sins are real.
    Of course our own sin ar our own. Sincere repentance, asking for forgiveness and not doing it again, doing reparation is a process to eliminate sin. The original sin, only the messiah can remove.
     
  3. winner08

    winner08 Well-Known Member

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    The hugh difference between you and I is that You see the fall of man.
    You see that God's plan for man went bad and it is mans fault.
    I know the truth. everything that has happen in human history is all part of God's plan. Nothing absultely nothing has went wrong.
    I know God is in control of everything that happens in this world. That is what is ment when I say God is all sovergien. God is in control of everything.
    You however do not belive this. You believe that God is limited by man's mythical free will. If you believe that man has free will then you can not belive that God is all sovegien. It's an oxymoron,
    Phil: 2 13 For it is God who WORKS in you both TO WILL and TO DO for His good pleasure.
    I belive in what this scripture says. Read it word for word and you will see that YOU do not have free will. It is God's will that is worked through you.
    HERE we go again. You said that God created Satan, and yet you said that Man put satan in charge. WHAT, This is what I mean by you not believing God is all powerfull. All sovergien. God created Satan (fact). So who is more powerfull? God created man, (Whos in control)? How can man put anyone (satan) in charge when God the creator is more powerfull and is in charge of all things. Who is in charge? who is in control? the one who creates are the one that is created?? even you should see this.

    It all comes down to one thing between you and I. That is I believe that God is in contol of every single thing that happens under the heavens and in the heavens. God created Satan, an is responsible for the evil that people do. I believe that God uses satan and evil for His divine purpose. This is all part of God's plan. If one belives God is the creator of all things Then the creator is responsible for His creation. there no 2ways about. Like i said If a man creates a machine and the machine fails whos responsibility is it? God is the potter and we are the clay.

    That the difference I know God is the potter and therefore responsible for His clay. I know God created Satan and therefore created evil and uses that for His divine purpose. You do not. I know God is all sovergien. You do not.

    Darren
     
  4. winner08

    winner08 Well-Known Member

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    Marsh great reply. We re not half-way between God and satan. God is not battling satan for our souls. Satan does not have any power that God has not given him. I always believed that God uses satan and all the suffering that goes on for His divine purpose, and most of the time we can not comperhend His reasons for evil. This does not mean It is not true, that God uses evil and suffering and Satan for His divine purpose.
    One thing Marsh, you said Adam and eve took a vote and did things there way. I must disagree. God allowed Adam and Eve make that choice to know good and evil. It was Gods will. It was all part of God's plan. Adam and eve did nothing that God did not allowe them to do. If one believe that A&E did something that God did not intended for them to do then one does not believe that God is in control everything. That is if one belives in this scripture Phil 2:13 (for it is God who WORKS in you both to WILL AND DO for His good pleasure). This is just one of many scriptures that proves man does not have a free will. God will is always done in man even when we go againsts Gods will. It is His will that we go against His will. If God is in control of everything (and I know that He is) then we can not do anything of our own Just as Jesus said " I do nothing of my own will" If Jesus said it it must be true. anyway Great reply Marsh, keep up the great work.

    Darren
     
  5. winner08

    winner08 Well-Known Member

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    Soleil10 It seems to me that you can not or do not believe that God is responsible for suffering,evil, and war. Do you believe in the scriptures? do you believe that scripture is the inspierd word of God? Do you believe that God is all sovergien? Here is the prof that God is responsible for all these things.

    1. Isa 45:7 I formed the light and created darkness. I make peace (ggod) and created evil. I the Lord do all these things.
    2. God is responsible for ALL, because ALL IS OF GOD (Eph 1:11) (Rom 11:36) and 11cor 5:8.
    3. (Ecc 1:13) an experience of EVIL has God GIVEN to the sons of man to HUMBLE him by.
    4. Jer 4:6 I God WILL BRING EVIL from the notth and a great destruction.
    5. Jer 6:19 Hear O earth, I God WILL BRING evil upon this people.
    6. 1 Kings 22:22 and he said I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets and HE (gOD) SAID GO FORTH AND DO SO.
    7. Josh 23:15 So shall the Lord BRING upon you ALL EVIL THINGS untill He (God) has destroyed you.
    8. Sam 15:2-3 This saith the Lord of host go and smite the amelek, DESTROY, SLAY BOTH MAN AND WOMEN,INFANT AND SUCKLING.

    note this last scripture Men,women, infant and suckling. ALL destroyed (killed).

    Now its your choice, what do you believe? do you believe in the word of God?
    Or do you not believe in the word of God?
    God uses war, evil, and suffering all for His divine purpose and it is all part of Gods plan for mankind. Here it is word for word that proves that God is responsible for everything under the sun.

    What do you believe? Gods word (scripture) or what you were taught in sunday school?

    Darren

    I know these truths are hard to believe because we say how can God of love be responible for these horrible things, we are taught unscriptual falshoods from the beginning. Through sunday school and churches our preachers and traditions. Man has been decieved from the beginning, the thing is this too is all part of God;s plaln. What do you believe? Who do you believe? God or man's teaching?
     
  6. Azure24

    Azure24 Well-Known Member

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    Soleil. We are nearing the end of our discussion...

    From now on I will only answer to Scripture...

    "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any PRIVATE INTERPRETATION" (II Pet. 1:20).

    All knowledge of God comes from Scripture. We cannot answer Scripture without Scripture...

    "You shall not ADD unto the word which I command you, neither shall you DIMINISH ought from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you" (Deut. 4:2).

    "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: you shall not ADD thereto, nor DIMINISH from it" (Deut. 12:32).

    "Every word of God is PURE: He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him. ADD YOU NOT unto His words, lest He reprove you, and you be found a liar" (Prov. 30:5-6).

    If you can't back what you say, you'll be found a liar...

    Only Scripture can answer Scripture...

    "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches; COMPARING [or ‘matching’] SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 2:13).

    If love originated from God who's love is it? Is it no longer God's?

    Scripture?


    "We love BECAUSE he first loved us."
    (1 John4:19)

    Scripture?

    Man is not Divine...

    "Because the carnal [natural] mind is ENMITY against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:7).

    "Even the Spirit of Truth; whom the world CANNOT receive, because it sees Him not, neither knows Him(John 14:16-17).

    But the natural man [still being carnal-minded] receives not the things of the SPIRIT of God: neither CAN HE know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (I Cor. 2:12-14).

    Scripture?

    "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that [‘that faith’] NOT OF YOURSELVES [NOT of your own faith or will] it is the gift of God."(Eph. 2:8-10).

    Scripture?

    "…it is God [not man] which works in you BOTH TO WILL [God causes us ‘to will’] and TO DO [God causes us ‘to do’] of His good pleasure" to bring about His intentions (Phil. 2:13).

    "So then it is not of him that wills..."(Rom. 9:16).


    Scripture?

    What??

    "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the Last Adam [Jesus Christ] was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 15:45-46).

    "It is the spirit that quickens [gives life]; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life" (John 6:63).

    "Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD"(I Cor. 15:50)

    Scripture?

    male and female are physical...

    "God is SPIRIT"(John4:24)

    Scripture?

    What does God say about Christianity...

    "My people hath been lost sheep: their SHEPHERDS have CAUSED them to go astray... "

    Shepherds = Pastors and Clergymen

    When you see clearly it becomes scaringly accurate...

    "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. For the TIME IS COME that JUDGMENT MUST BEGIN AT THE HOUSE OF GOD..." (I Pet. 4:16-17).

    What does Peter say of the Church?


    "But there were false prophets
    [teachers] also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers AMONG YOU, who privately shall bring in DAMNABLE HERESIES, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And MANY
    [not a few "the majority"]shall follow their pernicious [lascivious, licentious, wanton] ways; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be EVIL spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words MAKE MERCHANDISE OF YOU…" (II Pet. 2:1-3).

    "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, [a prophet is also a teacher and prophesying is teaching], and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive THE VERY ELECT" (Matt. 24:24).

    "MANY
    [not a few "the majority"] will say to me [Jesus] in that day, Lord, Lord [Master, Master], have we not:

    A: PROPHESIED [taught, preached] in Thy Name[Jesus]?

    B: In Thy Name [Jesus] have CAST OUT DEVILS [demons]?

    C: And in Thy Name [Jesus] done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS [miracles]?

    And then will I profess
    [plainly, openly, tell them to their face] I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME YOU THAT WORK INIQUITY [lawlessness]" (Matt. 7:22-23).

    "For MANY[not a few "the majority"] shall come in my name, saying [that], I [Jesus] am Christ, and shall deceive MANY[not a few "the majority"]" (Matt. 24:5).

    "I indeed baptize you with water unto REPENTANCE: but He that comes after me is mightier than I, Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, AND WITH FIRE"(Matt. 3:11).

    "For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).

    Scripture?
     
  7. Azure24

    Azure24 Well-Known Member

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    Continued...

    Perhaps you never thought of Jesus going to Church, but He did!!

    "And they came to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to CAST OUT them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. And He taught, saying unto them, ‘Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the House of Prayer? But ye have made it a DEN OF THIEVES [Gk: ‘burglars’ cave’].’ And the SCRIBES and CHIEF PRIESTS heard it, and sought how they might DESTROY HIM: for they feared Him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine" (Mark 11:15-18).

    What a revelation of the church of God we have in these three verses! Jesus was so angry with the leaders at the temple for turning it into a money-making flea market, that he:

    "cast out them that sold and bought in the temple"

    "overthrew the tables of the moneychangers and seats of them that sold doves"

    "suffered no one to carry vessels [of merchandise] through the temple"


    Yet if one goes into a church TODAY does he not find people selling Rosemarys, Bibles and the likes...FOR MONEY??

    Jesus said that they "made the House of Prayer a DEN OF THIEVES"!
    Say, did you notice that they were buying and selling "…in the Temple?" Do you think that just maybe this has anything to do with the fact that,

    "…NO MAN might BUY OR SELL, save he that had the MARK OR THE NAME OF THE BEAST, or the NUMBER OF HIS NAME" (Rev. 13:17)?

    Scripture?

    And regarding sin...

    The penalty of sin issue can be settled in your heart and mind the instant you come to realize that Jesus PAID IN FULL the penalty for your sins and all the sin of the world. However, paying the penalty for sin does not instantly PURGE AND WASH US CLEAN OF SIN. The penalty is paid, but the condition lingers.

    "Therefore I am saying to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be PARDONED men, yet the blasphemy of the spirit shall not be pardoned."(Matt. 12:-31-32)

    Scripture? Where is your Scripture?
     
  8. soleil10

    soleil10 Well-Known Member

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    Do you call this a discussion ?
     
  9. winner08

    winner08 Well-Known Member

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    Soleil10, did you read my post to you? Did you read the scriptures that I posted?

    Darren
     
  10. winner08

    winner08 Well-Known Member

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    Azure, if all one has is the beliefs of traditional man's teachings then one does not have the truth and therefore can not be backed by scripture. We can show scripture that proves what we say, but the people who give their opinion and do not believe in scripture and can not back it with scripture are decieved into thinking they know the truth and yet this is also God's will. God's will for these people is to keep them decieved. They will know the truth just as we have when God removes the scales from their eyes. They just can understand that God is all in all. That God created Satan, That God did not give man a free will, That God is all sovergien, That there was no fall of man. That there is no hell where God will send man to be burned and torture, That there is no heaven where one might after death. You and I know that these are all of Mans teachings and not Gods. They will understand one day. We know who they are, when we prove what we say by scripture and yet they can not prove what they say by scripture. We can back what we say by the word of God. They can back what they say by the word of man.

    Darren
     
  11. Azure24

    Azure24 Well-Known Member

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    Of course it is. Maybe to you it is an argument...

    winner08, of course. That's why I said...

    :)
     
  12. soleil10

    soleil10 Well-Known Member

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    Which one ? Is it in this thread ?
     
  13. Marsh

    Marsh Disagreeable By Nature

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    Hmmmmm.... I see a distinction between something being God's will, and something being part of God's plan. See, I believe that God is almighty and all-knowing, but just because he has power doesn't mean that he must use it. You believe in a sovereign God; you must then concede that God has the sovereign power to decide when and where he uses his might.

    Jesus is the example we are to follow, because Jesus was not like Adam. When faced with temptation, Adam gave in. When faced with temptation, Jesus overcame. God's hope for us is that we'll learn to overcome, as it says in each of the seven letters to the seven churches in the Revelation of Jesus Christ. God's sovereign choice is to allow us to choose whether we give in or keep strong; whether we follow him or not. See, even in Jesus' presence people fell away, and it wasn't because God wanted them to, but because they couldn't handle the truth.

    Now, God knows that all of this is going to happen, just as Jesus said about Judas betraying him. Jesus knew that the betrayal was coming, and yet he allowed Judas to stay part of the group. Why is that? I think it's to illustrate that God has given us free will to make our own choices, AND that he knows our hearts and minds. We have free will; God still has sovereignity over us because he knows us, and we cannot hide anything from him.

    God also maintains sovereignity over the world. Jesus said that he could have called down legions of angels to destroy the guards who came to take him away. He chose not to. That's sovereignity.

    For these reasons, I don't believe that man's free will and God's sovereign power are mutually-exclusive; rather, it is only through God's sovereign power that we even exist to experience free will-- both because he created us, and because he has chosen not to wipe us out as he did in Noah's time.
     
  14. Marsh

    Marsh Disagreeable By Nature

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    ...........Soleil, have you actually read the Bible?
     
  15. winner08

    winner08 Well-Known Member

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    You say when Jesus was faced with temptation He He was able to overcome. You say Adam was not. Jesus nor Adam had did so of their own free will. God filled Jesus with His spirit and therefore Jesus was able to overcome. Jesus even said I do nothing of my own accord. Adam was not able to overcome because Adam was created spiritual weak and subject to vainty. there is a scripture on this I just don't know it off hand bit I will have it for you next time. God created man spiritually weak so that we must depend on Him for our strengh.

    Once again Jesus chose not to called His legions because it was not Gods will. Jesus said I do nothing of my own will but my Fathers will in heaven.

    I see where we will have to agree to disagree on the matter of free will. please explain the scripture of Phil 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

    However I think we agree on most things.

    Darren
     
  16. winner08

    winner08 Well-Known Member

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    Good question Marsh. I keep thinking where does Soleil10 get his info from. It is deffinatly not from scripture. Just the title of this post, Satan accuses us before God is 100% totally unscriptural. No where in the bible does it say this. jesus never taught this. The prophets of OLD never taught this either. If one reads soliel10s post it reads like a check list of what the mainstream christiandom man made teachings are. Incuding the mainstream christiandom man made traditions.

    Darren
     
  17. winner08

    winner08 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is. I just asked that you show some scriptures to back your opinions up. I show you scriptures to back what I believe and everytime I do this you ignore it. I was just wondering is it because you can not back your opinion by scripture? I believe 100% that scripture is the inspiered word of God. That God does not change therefore His word does not change. Yes the post I am speaking of is on pg2 or 3 and I showed through scripture where God is responsible for creating Satan, Evil, suffering and wars. That God uses these things for His divine purposes. Just one more thing The deciples of Christ suffered ever since they met Jesus. Did God stop their suffering? NO, Did Jesus stop their suffering? NO, Jesus even said that His people will suffer for Him even die for Him. When one becomes a child of God, They will suffer more than ever. They will go through trails and turblations through their whole life. jesus said blessed are those who are purscuted for my namesake.

    Darren
     
  18. Dream

    Dream Well-Known Member

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    Its some kind of high energy exchange. Really what is happening is that each person, in trying to give, is actually giving to themselves. Nobody can look all that up and everything without realizations and epiphanies on the way! That is a really good thing, too; because an actual exchange of ideas between people is difficult. Very little gets through in either direction.

    It is quite a lot to read, though I have read a lot (some skimming). Its been like running a marathon just to keep up with the volume of information! I have to respect all of the effort that has been put out by everyone so far. Lots of intense work is going into some of these posts, and I know that some learning is going on at the same time.
     
  19. soleil10

    soleil10 Well-Known Member

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    The Accuser
    Revelation 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

    That snake, who fools everyone on earth, is known as the devil and Satan. 10Then I heard a voice from heaven shout,

    "Our God has shown
    his saving power,
    and his kingdom has come!
    God's own Chosen One
    has shown his authority.
    Satan accused our people
    in the presence of God
    day and night. Now he has been thrown out!
     
  20. Azure24

    Azure24 Well-Known Member

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    soleil. I have a question...

    Just where has Satan been cast down??
     

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