Your Solution to the US Economy

Pathless said:
Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of ... - Google Book Search
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Haven`t read the entire article, but it does seem to entirely fit your initial arguments.

I totally agree that thinking ecological can reduce our hardships in the long run. It is a clear goal and merely the future. And I feel a need to accelerate though.

We do need to get rid of the idea that pummeling through natural resources is a good idea while it is a straight course to destruction, but also the book states, global population control and easing down on the will to limitlessly pursue technological achievement, with regards to this IMO is also a straight course to self destruction.

I can see why Stalinist and Maoists would get all excited by this though as it would be a easier world to control.

Maybe this forum isn`t filled with engineers but I get this a lot surprisingly. I almost feel that brainwashing is present as I have no idea where this all comes from. We`re on a straight course to almost free materials which I`m sure capitalist would try to deny. But its futile to do so, looking at historic patterns and clearly what we regularly have access to these days, only very rich could get in the past. Prices are coming down for sure and should continue to go down as technology allows it.

So one of these days, we should have access to space ships like owning a Ford motor car, that is only logical, feasible, practical and very realistic. I don`t know what the problem might be, besides Stalinist and Maoists complaining that people are thinking freely.

Maybe in the short term it is necessary for some communities to control their population. But in the long run, I don`t think we`ve even begun. For example when you look at the mid-west of America or uninhabited areas the only idea that comes to my mind is "where are the people?". I don`t know how one reaches a conclusion that we need to slow down, besides communities wanting to procrastinate in areas like technology.

A French philosopher by the name Russo said something famous like "Man return to nature". Instead of interpreting that as setting a course for devolution, I must say I and many others are in total agreement that we can achieve that through technological advances, rather than easing down.

This isn`t a religion or technology worship as some have accused me. It`s just observation on how we have progressed and mapping things accordingly for the future, in line with how we do things. Slowing down is not an option, we need to surpass our limits to overcome them (there are exceptions, some conventional technology and weapons.. I guess).

Disagree? then take the stairs next time you wanna go up to the top floor.

TK

p.s. I dread the day that we`d need to register at the DMV to drive around space. Its kind of like having to apply for a license and pay fees to go mountain hiking. The trick is to go out there before the less-blessed people catch up. Actually we should ease down on telling others to "slow down" if anything.
 
Joedjr said:
Hi wil,

hey, when you find this place pm me. I will not tell anyone else, promise. Thought it was here in NC but it's still too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer.
Joe
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Have you tried Ashville? Maybe Costa Rica...or I'll be a snow bird and move from one economically depressed city in the north to one in the south..(plan on buying two small homes for under 100k total) Have a roomie in both locations to maintain the place whilst I'm not around.

Or maybe schoolbus and a motorbike. The home moves when it has to and the bike gets me around.
 
I think the economy needs a lower startup cost for small businesses -- not too low but much lower. Innovation should be a risk, not an impossibility. Much of the problem is that the rules aren't very simple. You need a lawyer to figure out the laws, certified people to do every thing else, health insurance for workers, monthly tax returns for IRS, blah blah. Worse, real estate prices are super inflated. Somehow the market has not corrected them. No wonder everybody is looking for a job.
 
Hi wil,
wil said:
Have you tried Ashville? Maybe Costa Rica...or I'll be a snow bird and move from one economically depressed city in the north to one in the south..(plan on buying two small homes for under 100k total) Have a roomie in both locations to maintain the place whilst I'm not around.

Or maybe schoolbus and a motorbike. The home moves when it has to and the bike gets me around.
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Ashville might be a bit too cold. looking for a place that has a max low of maybe 40 F and max high of 90 F with avg winter high 55 F and avg summer high 85 F. :) Keeping with the thought of this thread, you could get away without air in the summer and maybe have a small heat system for winter. I wanted to keep it to one place, so the snowbird idea is out for now. Two places for 100K, that will be tough. Maybe get two of those big back yard sheds that home depot sells and 2 small plots of land.
If one didn't have too many hobbies you could probably do alright in one of those buses you see with the small car towed in the back. Been to Panama but not Costa Rica. I liked Panama, thought the people there were great. It was hot, I was there in their summer.
 
Joedjr said:
Hi wil,

Ashville might be a bit too cold. looking for a place that has a max low of maybe 40 F and max high of 90 F with avg winter high 55 F and avg summer high 85 F. :) Keeping with the thought of this thread, you could get away without air in the summer and maybe have a small heat system for winter. ..
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Well I don`t know the midwest, I went from North to South on the East coast and NC seemed just right.

I think your only option might be nice areas in Southern California if thats the kind of climate you like.

Nice areas are, Santa Barbara(5 star for retirement), Newport, San Diego (lots of golf) and if you don`t mind the country side, this small classy place east of LA called Claremont. There might be nice places around Lake Taho somewhere in northern Nevada. It never snows in LA but it snows in SF and they`re not that far apart. It doesn`t get too hot or cold in LA because its the desert without the heat or moisture, but it only rains like 2 weeks worth year round that will feel weird. But after living for years, even if you lived in nice areas you will understand why it is called the "wild wild west".

For business if not NC, it is Vancouver (fastest growing city in the world). I heard its not that cold although it snows in Vancouver, and nice and relatively warm ski slopes are 30 minutes away.

TK
 
Dream said:
I think the economy needs a lower startup cost for small businesses -- not too low but much lower. Innovation should be a risk, not an impossibility. Much of the problem is that the rules aren't very simple. You need a lawyer to figure out the laws, certified people to do every thing else, health insurance for workers, monthly tax returns for IRS, blah blah. Worse, real estate prices are super inflated. Somehow the market has not corrected them. No wonder everybody is looking for a job.
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I think we`re on similar wave lengths here. But the startup costs couldn`t get any lower in the US, fyi.

Innovation should be a risk. Normally I would agree with this. And I wish for government funded research firms to be forced to adhere to certain standards to produce return on investment. (For example I tried talking to Nasa to potentially make money by transferring technology abroad, and they didn`t like the fact that I was suggesting to make money with firms that didn`t pay taxes in the US, oh well).

But more so, I believe that we need to force a root technology to appear so that startups can happen. This sort of technology will most likely change our lifestyles.

For example with the invention of electricity, swarms of technologies developed. Another example would be cars revolutionized our life styles. With the introduction of the Internet that was initially government funded, we now see multiple industries formed.

In the same manner, I think we need something drastic like the Internet to revolutionize our lifestyle that likely is needed to be government funded. To give us a kick start.

Again the only thing I can see that can enable masses of people to get involved is the hydrogen economy.


TK

p.s. Personally if I had my way, I`d just startup a small research firm with proper funding not for the sake of research, but for the sake of making money (this is called an Innovation Production Cycle). That way priorities would be different and more capital and jobs may be created. Hardcore engineers don`t think about making money most of the time, and MBA businessmen don`t usually know enough about technology to come up with money making ideas although they may know something about raising funds, and thats a major dilema IMO, fyi.
 
Keep in mind that new tech opens but also closes doors. A hydrogen/electric tech infrastructure would be good, but you'd need something else for your new job creating industry.

I would like to see small scale open source automated manufacturing. Move most manufacturing back into communities or even individual homes, and bring back the artisan and agricultural economy. Get away from all the centralized production.

But the startup costs couldn`t get any lower in the US, fyi.
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Oh, yeah.
 
Dream said:
Keep in mind that new tech opens but also closes doors. A hydrogen/electric tech infrastructure would be good, but you'd need something else for your new job creating industry.
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I agree. In that sense I also wish that gifted think tanks be started in each state, and with regards to hydrogen an inexpensive compact super efficient water powered hydrogen generator be made available to the public. Then we can take it home or big/small offices to build all kinds of things.


Dream said:
I would like to see small scale open source automated manufacturing. Move most manufacturing back into communities or even individual homes, and bring back the artisan and agricultural economy. Get away from all the centralized production.
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I am in total agreement with this as well although I don`t know if its possible. First we`d need to get rid of super-malls. And change our big company CEO`s minds to make major investments abroad (notably China) immediately, they`re gonna do it any day now.

I had a chance to see a US domestic fridge I think from the 20`s (maybe 40`s) in action, and it was a technological marvel. It was made to not break down, it was built like a mini version of the industrial fridges we have today. That was really fresh when I knew electronics nowadays are built to break in certain amount of years. That`s an ideal but it was fresh.


TK
 
Dream said:
I would like to see small scale open source automated manufacturing. Move most manufacturing back into communities or even individual homes, and bring back the artisan and agricultural economy. Get away from all the centralized production.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree that we need an agricultural economy. I am really hoping that in the next several years the idea of decentralization and local food production begins to take hold in this country. Already there are things like CSAs (Community Supported Agriculture) in many communities, but what I envision is much more radical. I think we will eventually need to convert a lot of land to public use for growing food--community gardens everywhere at the very least. I think cooperative/communal farms are an excellent idea, but they are so far at the other end of capitalism that I don't think that they will ever be implemented or supported by federal or state money. That's a shame. I think it would be a great day when (if) strip malls and big-box stores are converted to community centers, gardens, farmers' markets, etc.

We need to revitalize small farms. I think that is absolutely crucial for our economy. Right now we have agribusiness, patented seeds, terminator seeds, genetically modified crops, massive use of synthetic fertilizers and pesticides; all of which has created tremendous damage to land--loss of topsoil, loss of biodiversity, etc. When the federal government is done bailing out banks and spending billions and trillions of dollars making and using weapons to kill people in the Middle East, do you think they will maybe send some stimulus to the ol' yeoman farmers that are so celebrate and mythologized in American history?
 
Pathless said:
.. I think it would be a great day when (if) strip malls and big-box stores are converted to community centers, gardens, farmers' markets, etc.
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Malls converted to farms is a realistic idea, but would it be enough space? I`ve seen ideas of designing the modern sky scrapers with vegetable gardens integrated in them. Some people have already started fish farms in high-rises,.. for luxury products that is. There`s plenty of wide open land in the US as it seems. Water seems somewhat an issue, but I think that can be resolved with government funding.

This one Japanese guy in charge of a Chinese factory decided to start a vegetation plant rather than firing his employees. He rotates his workers to the fields when they`re not working in the factory (its an experiment but could be a solution).

No malls would definitely stimulate small businesses in many places.


Pathless said:
We need to revitalize small farms. I think that is absolutely crucial for our economy. ..
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I don`t quite understand why? can anyone clarify, because I thought the US was doing fine agriculturally, although seems very mass-produced. Organically grown vegetables at small gardens are doing pretty good in Japan, fyi (so in theory would do good in any city).


TK
 
Hi TheKhan,
TheKhan said:
But more so, I believe that we need to force a root technology to appear so that startups can happen. This sort of technology will most likely change our lifestyles.

For example with the invention of electricity, swarms of technologies developed. Another example would be cars revolutionized our life styles. With the introduction of the Internet that was initially government funded, we now see multiple industries formed.

In the same manner, I think we need something drastic like the Internet to revolutionize our lifestyle that likely is needed to be government funded. To give us a kick start.
Click to expand...
I think a lot of folks are looking for that thing that hasn't been done yet. You need to be the first (or second) to the party to be a profitable business. This is nothing new. One of the other ways to be profitable is to get something for cheep, like a natural resource, which we can see has been the way of choice since the beginning of time. We have been talking about farming, but to start a farm today you would need a "HUGE" amount of cash to get the land. Most of the farms here have been owned by families down through generations. You could even look back to when the "settlers" came to this country, they took or stole the land from the Indians and hence got it on the cheep to start.
I think Pathless was getting at that we need to get back to the "core" of business to make a productive economy. Can this happen today, it's somewhat of a specialized world.
Off to work now in my non core job. hope it's still here tomorrow!
Joe
 
TheKhan said:
Malls converted to farms is a realistic idea, but would it be enough space?
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The roof deck of the abandoned malls could be strengthened and that would be the place to farm...quote=Joedjr;179705]Hi TheKhan,

I think a lot of folks are looking for that thing that hasn't been done yet. You need to be the first (or second) to the party to be a profitable business. This is nothing new.[/quote]10th to the table with a cheaper way to knock off the first idea can always make a killing. Of course if cheaper is your claim to fame you lose because someone can always come along and improve. Service is King. Provide something someone wants fill a need.

The best way currently for us, me, you, we to improve the economy is to be successful ourselves, pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and not wait for someone else. As it is said you can wait for your boat to come in or swim out to it.

Multiple streams of income to me is what is happening. I see plenty of artists out there...create. Get a grant to paint an abandonned wall or bridge, gather community youth and make a mural. One fellow told me if you want to increase wealth, watch where the money goes and then find a corner it has to go by and stand there (he held his arms open). I've kept that vision and I've stood there.

You can still buy homes for no money down, and rent them. You can still sell darn near any product if you are willing to hear "NO!" I've got no shame, I'll be a birthday party clown or sell network marketing products. I'll buy slums and rent them, and provide housing to those that need it. I work a 40 hour week and on my free time after taking care of children who need to go to scouts or dance or school events or work or the movies...in between I'll try to figure out ways to be more successful. I've got webpages to build so folks can provide me money willingly, I've got more ideas than time, and more on my plate than I know what to do with... I teach a half a dozen one night classes at community college...doesn't pay much, but I get paid to do something I would like to do for free but can't find the people to play with...so the college finds the people and pays me to play board games...

One day I'll back off and downsize, get out of the rat race, as my passive income will exceed my expenses..(everyone should play the cashflow game)
 
I laughed when someone commented at YouTube that the motive for the bacteria to push the wheel was fear. I`ve posted information about this here and there on the forum. This area of research truly fascinates me with a mouth wide open.


Bacteria powered micromotor

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=iNwW9Jg0gLI (check this out, you won`t believe it)


TK


A micro-motor powered by bacteria & a microscopic ion pump Neurophilosophy

Neurophilosophy

A micro-motor powered by bacteria & a microscopic ion pump

with one comment
Researchers at the National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology near Tokyo have created the first micromechanical device with living components incorporated into them.
Nanobiotechnologist Yuichi Hiratsuka, now at the University of Tokyo, and his colleagues, have built a microscopic motor powered by bacteria.
The bacterium used in the device, Mycoplasma mobile is one of nature’s fastest moving microbes; it is able to glide over surfaces at speeds of up to seven-tenths of an inch per hour, the equivalent of a person moving at 20 miles per hour.
Hiratsuka and his team etched circular tracks, coated with glycoproteins, into tiny cogs. M. mobile needs these sugary proteins to adhere to a surface. The bacteria were genetically engineered, and coated with vitamin B7, to make them more adhesive. A rotor (left) was then added to the device, so that it moved when the bacteria slid along the pathways on the cog, which can hold 100 bacteria. The researchers were able to place 20,000 such rotors onto the surface of a silicon chip, with each cog rotating at an average of 2 revolutions per minute:
060828_bacteria_motor_02.jpg
The system can repair itself and needs only glucose as a source of fuel. It contains no wires and, unlike electronic motors, can work in a wet environment. The system could be improved by adding more bacteria to the cogs.
“We would like to make micro-robots driven by biological motors,” says Hiratsuka, adding that “we may be able to construct electronic generator systems, which generate electric energy from an abundant chemical source - glucose in the body”.
The microbe-powered motor may possibly be used to propel micropumps, perhaps like the one developed by researchers at the University of Washington.
Alexander Mamishev, an associate professor of electrical engineering, led a team which has developed a microscopic ion pump small enough to fit on a silicon chip. The device uses an electrical charge to produce a jet of air on the surface of the chip.
ionpump.jpg

The ion pump consists of two basic components, an emitter and a collector. The emitter, which has a diameter of 2 micrometers, generates ions, which travel along an electrical field to the collector, creating a cool jet of air that cools the chip surface. The infrared images on the right show the changes in surface temerature of a chip when the pump is switched off (top) and on (bottom).
“With this pump, we are able to integrate the entire cooling system right onto a chip,” says Mamishev. “That allows for cooling in applications and spaces where it just wasn’t realistic to do before.”
The University of Washington researchers, together with collaborators from Kronos Advanced Technologies and Intel, have received a $100,000 grant from the Washington Technology Center to take the project into the second phase.
The ultimate aim of the project is to develop cooling systems which can be built into the next generation of microchips and microelectromechanical devices. Researchers involved in the work are looking into incorporating carbon nanotubes and other nano-structures to improve the performance of the ion pumps.
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TheKhan said:
I don`t quite understand why? can anyone clarify, because I thought the US was doing fine agriculturally, although seems very mass-produced. Organically grown vegetables at small gardens are doing pretty good in Japan, fyi (so in theory would do good in any city).
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As I mentioned in my previous post, it is agribusiness that is doing fine. Joe mentioned family farmers. Most family farmers have been either bought out and pushed off of their land or have been what amounts to conscripted to the agribusiness firms. A great book that touches on what has happened to family farmers over the years is Raising Less Corn, More Hell by George Pyle. Only 25 cents on Amazon.com, plus shipping. :eek:

And here's a tangent: you can get almost any book that you want these days on amazon.com for super-cheap, many as low as one cent, plus shipping. That's great, right? In some ways. But then factor in the unseen costs of shipping, which is the continued and exacerbated drawdown of fossil fuels (again, check out Overshoot by Bruce R. Catton, linked earlier in the thread), which is basically taking massive amounts of energy out of the geologic bank of the past by using up the finite oil reserves. But cheap products are good products, and I would much rather pay $4.01 for a book, shipped to my door, than pay $20 for the same book new at Borders or Barnes & Noble or wherever.

To me, again, it comes down to this notion of finite resources. I'm of the belief that oil reserves are finite and that we will drain them. Once they are gone, the kind of lifestyles that we in the "1st world" countries have grown accustomed to will be gone, too. Already those lifestyles are in dire jeopardy, as can be seen clearly through the tanking of the US and global economy. Even if agribusiness is not degrading the land through chemicals, huge acreages devoted to single crops, etc. (and it is), agribusiness is dependent on petroleum products for cultivation and transport of food. So once the oil reserves are gone, agribusiness is in trouble.

Now TK will argue hydrogen ;) for transport of crops. Personally, I don't think hydrogen is feasible, but we've already touched on that, so what I want to point out now is that agribusiness needs petroleum products not only for transport but also for, if I understand correctly, synthesizing pesticides and fertilizers.

This is why I claim that it is essential that we localize food production and return to small-scale farms. Beyond that, food is much fresher when it comes from down the road or on the other side of town than when it is shipped in from Chile. One downside to local food production is that the diversity of the global food market will not be available to the consumer. No more grapes in the middle of winter, shipped from Chile. Far, far less oranges from sunny California here in the Pacific Northwest. I'm a big fruit eater, and I'm not happy about this; however, I think that local food production is necessary and has myriad long-term benefits that make it quite favorable when compared to the current method of agribusiness and shipping all over the world.

2c.
 
To All,

Check this out!
I would like to know the truth about this. The blueprints are out, and I`m not an electrician so I can`t build this device so I need around $10k to check this out. If you are good with electric circuits, by all means please check this out and let me know.

I would like this to go on the TV show "Myth Buster" to be tested. Meyers doesn`t look like he`s making this up, so I have an immense urge to find out. If it is true, we are clearly headed for different time.

But you get the idea, if this device doesn`t exist, we should build it like as if our lives depended on it on the federal level. The rest would follow.


YouTube - Stan Meyer- Water As Fuel- Part One
YouTube - demonstration of meyer's water fuel cell par 2
YouTube - Car running on water, Hydrogen. Stan Meyer part 3


TK

p.s. and you already know what needs to be done if this is true. Its in the constitution.
 
Real Spider Silk on its way!

Silkworm eggs are injected with the genes of Nephila clavata, the golden orb spider, known in Japanese as the courtesan spider because its striking yellow, black and red colouring resembles the gorgeous kimono of an up-market prostitute. The silkworm caterpillars that emerge from the eggs weave cocoons, of which 10 per cent consist of spider proteins. These are spun into silk.
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Coming soon – spider socks (in packs of 8) - Times Online



TK
 
We can already drop our gas prices for cars today with water. Just mixing a little bit of hydrogen generated by our car batteries, into our engines burns the gas more cleanly thereby increasing mileage.

YouTube - DO HYDROGEN GENERATORS WORK ON CARS (Myth Busters in action)
YouTube - The Magnum Series HHO Gen by MagDrive.. (super motivated dude) 35 - 45% savings on fuel.
YouTube - WATER Powered Car Instructions - Plans - Make Car Burn Water (better mileage)
YouTube - BEST Hydrogen Conversion Kits & Plans - High Output HHO Fuel Cell Design Water Car DIY

TK

p.s. we probably got robbed folks ..
 
Pathless said:
As I mentioned in my previous post, it is agribusiness that is doing fine. Joe mentioned family farmers. Most family farmers have been either bought out and pushed off of their land or have been what amounts to conscripted to the agribusiness firms.
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One thing that I forgot to mention in my previous post is that agribusiness itself is largely subsidized by the federal government. What this boils down to is that the federal government (or supposedly, taxpayers) pay large sums of money to agribusiness corporations and the farmers conscripted by them in order to make their farming lucrative. Otherwise, farmers would be hard-pressed to break even. In many cases, the food that we buy and that is exported to other countries from America is sold for less money than it takes to produce, and the difference is paid for in federal money. Again, this is addressed in-depth in George Pyle's book, referenced in my previous post.

On a related note, Wes Jackson and Wendell Berry published this editorial in the NY Times earlier this month. This short piece touches on the problems of industrial agriculture, and calls for a "50-year farm bill that addresses forthrightly the problems of soil loss and degradation, toxic pollution, fossil-fuel dependency and the destruction of rural communities." I hope Obama and all of our congressfolk pay attention to this.
 
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