Losing my religion, or trading it in for something else?

[Gatekeeper]

I still believe in G-d. Although not the G-d described in scripture. Most will call my version of G-d idolatry. I say if I'm wrong, I don't want to be right. It is very difficult to deprogram ones self from many years of indoctrination. I think many (Obviously) do come to the point where they question the 'status quo', however. I myself believe this to be the beginning of true understanding. If we do not question, then we cannot gain further insight. Indeed, doubt is one of the strongest tools for learning, imo.

Many atheist shun me, just as most Christians shun me. I'm kinda in the middle right now. I believe in G-d, but I fall short of believing in the the G-d described in scripture. He seems far too angry, and merciless, and mean, and blood thirsty to be real in my mind. Even so, I have somehow held on to a belief in something greater than myself. I think ones theology is useless in the grand scheme of things. I myself believe that a persons condition of heart is what matters most.

I have realized that my actions and attitudes effects the whole of society in one way or another. When I seek peace, and when I am mindful of my attitude and actions, I always seem to fair better then when I'm not. I try to show a degree of love for all people. I do so because I know we are all pretty much the same. We all have our hardships, we all make mistakes, we all suffer, and we are all in this life together.

With all that being said, I admire Jesus for what He did, and for His words, and for His passion for humanity. I somehow believe that He was touched by G-d in that He lived a lifestyle few of us could ever live. (G-ds Son? I certainly think so) I believe He loved G-d, and I also believe He loved us. He did however show a temper, and He rebuked many harshly. If Jesus were here today, He would most certainly rebuke many of the fundamentalists, evangelists, and many other self proclaiming Christians on this earth. They [IMO] are much like the Scribes, and Pharisees in our modern world. "Let He who is w/o sin cast the first stone"

How many Christians pick up the stone of judgment then bludgeon over the head those whom don't adhere to their personal theology? How many are willing to simply live and let live? How many show love, and compassion to all people? How many are mindful of what they themselves do? Instead of getting our own house in order, we so often take out their anger, and resentment, and bitterness, and hate on those who view things differently than we do. I don't know, I'm very frustrated with Christianity, and religion in general, and even more frustrated with myself. I know what I ought to do, but it is difficult to just let others be who they are without my personal judgments getting the best of me.

I follow Jesus in as much as He told me to love even my enemy. I personally believe love is the answer to the worlds problems, and also the answer to the condition of humanity. The problem is that very view value love above themselves, and their own desires. That is why we have such a screwed up world. It is a result of selfish desire, lack of mindfulness, and lack of love/compassion for those we share this world with. I do think that many are growing past our need to be right, however. I think there are many whom have realized the kingdom within. Maybe this will be true for me one day?

Can anyone else relate?

GK

 

[nativeastral]

certainly can gatekeeper, how hard is it to really love unconditionally as imperfect as we are. just watched an amish man questioning the burdensome rules of the elders on tv; he was excommunicated, like jesus a threat to the status quo. understandable that religions acquired their distinctiveness from others THEN but NOW? surely not now that we know so much more [informationally and globally]. as you say though lt can only start within and ripple out from there as there is no way one can change another except by example that that person is open and ready; we are all students and we are all teachers. cheers

 

[juantoo3]

I still believe in G-d. ... If we do not question, then we cannot gain further insight. Indeed, doubt is one of the strongest tools for learning, imo.

If G-d is real, then G-d can handle being questioned. Put another way, the only reason to be forced into not questioning is because somebody (or some institution) has something to hide. It comes down to the nature of truth and how it relates to reality. If "truth" is "real," a little questioning isn't gonna change a thing...that's my take.

Many atheist shun me, just as most Christians shun me. I'm kinda in the middle right now... I think ones theology is useless in the grand scheme of things. I myself believe that a persons condition of heart is what matters most.

Between a rock and a hard place? I can relate. I have long thought, and taught as much, that what we know isn't nearly as important as what we *do* with what we know.

How many Christians pick up the stone of judgment then bludgeon over the head those whom don't adhere to their personal theology? How many are willing to simply live and let live? How many show love, and compassion to all people? How many are mindful of what they themselves do?

In my opinion for all it is worth, it is wise of you to take notice of this. To those who are given much, much is expected. What will you do to help others to see? (the catch is to try to do so without being accusatory or argumentative...)

I follow Jesus in as much as He told me to love even my enemy. I personally believe love is the answer to the worlds problems, and also the answer to the condition of humanity. The problem is that very view value love above themselves, and their own desires. That is why we have such a screwed up world. It is a result of selfish desire, lack of mindfulness, and lack of love/compassion for those we share this world with. I do think that many are growing past our need to be right, however. I think there are many whom have realized the kingdom within. Maybe this will be true for me one day?

I'm not about to pretend I have all the answers. I'm not sure love is the whole answer...it depends on the question. Love in my opinion is a big part of the answer, but there is more to it than simply love. But you're in the right track.

Can anyone else relate?

Absolutely! Good luck!

BTW, It's great to see you back around!

certainly can gatekeeper, how hard is it to really love unconditionally as imperfect as we are.

Yet as children we love unconditionally automatically.

...there is no way one can change another except by example that that person is open and ready; we are all students and we are all teachers.

Excellent point!

 

[Paladin]

Hang in there Dude, just a little growing pains is all

It's actually a good sign to outgrow your own understanding. I have a lot of respect for those who diligently practice their own religion even if I personally feel it may be of the magic/mythic stage of development. Within all religions you will find those who have had the same growing pains as you and used them to look ever more deeply into the mystery that religion points to.

The stories, the scriptures, suttas, poems, all are pointing beyond the rational into the trans-rational. St. John of the Cross knew this, so did Rumi and Lao Tzu these and many more men and women found themselves caught up in the All In All though each expressed the flavor of IT within their own religious training.

It really doesn't matter if you find a community of others that reflect the same ideas you have now, for those will change. Even your ideas about who you are and what God may turn out to be will change. The universe and the reality of ALL THAT IS is way too much to be casually tossed off on some simple fable.

I have found that IT is very real, let it be so for you also

 

[c0de]

Can anyone else relate?

Even though I am not a Christian, I can relate because the institutionalization
and indoctrination of Islamic sects is just as real as it is of any other religion today.

I will add that Paladin's words above should be emphasized, and
you should know that this is just a proccess of personal evolution that
you are going through. And that it is a good thing.

If you believe in God, then you should already know that He is
more then capable of guiding you to Himself. If your intention really
is to find Him, and Him alone...

 

[nativeastral]

not being a christian yet imbued with it all as l would be if born a jew for example [harder to turn away from that one!] l can understand that being shunned is disenheartening when 'religion' is such a community thing, hence the popularity of forums such as these for those that do not fit in to the institutions around them, those who cannot accept all the precepts fed and delivered to them in the way that they must do otherwise they stand out like a sore thumb- ouch! thankfully spiritual practice and prayer can be done in solitude -'silence is the altar of god' paramahansa yogananda- before one must step out into the noisy marketplace again :}

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

I find the term "God" nearly unusable on its own. It doesn't have any specific meaning. I have to know something about a person's religious and cultural reference points in order to decipher what they mean by "God." That's kinda the point of interfaith contact and dialog I guess. If I used the God word in any personal way, which I don't, but if I did use that word as a marker for whatever my conception of the Ultimate Whatzit is, I'd actually mean a character like the Primum Mobile or the Macroprosopus of the western magical tradition. That's a purely metaphysical construct. I have no problem with Gods and Goddesses provided they remain strictly metaphysical chess pieces. There does seem to be a natural quality of providential serendipity at work in nature and events. That's a different sort of thing. More a Tao kind of thing it seems. I wouldn't call that God, nor do I conceptualize it as essentially feminine as in a Mother Nature figure.

Chris

 

[Netti-Netti]

I personally believe love is the answer to the worlds problems, and also the answer to the condition of humanity. The problem is that very view value love above themselves, and their own desires. That is why we have such a screwed up world. It is a result of selfish desire, lack of mindfulness, and lack of love/compassion for those we share this world with.

Why do you feel G-d is essential to practicing compassion? Buddhists don't. Humanists and existentialists don't. Atheists and agnostics don't (....in general ...and don't ask me for stats!).

 

[wil]

Big Hugz my brother!

I was genuinely concerned when I saw the title you chose for your thread...I know the compassion you have for others, the connection you've expressed for spirit, and the love that you exude.

But now that I've read your thread and the responses, I can only applaud yourself and all who have participated.

Welcome aboard, you've torn the veil as far as I'm concerned, when you've taken this step the rug can never be pulled out from under you!

I wish you consternation in your travels, as it is the comfort of the bumpy road that leads to growth, in my opinion.

 

[seattlegal]

Hi James.

Losing my religion, or trading it in for something else?

Doesn't the flower have to drop off before the fruit can develop?

 

[GlorytoGod]

I still believe in G-d. Although not the G-d described in scripture. Most will call my version of G-d idolatry. I say if I'm wrong, I don't want to be right. It is very difficult to deprogram ones self from many years of indoctrination. I think many (Obviously) do come to the point where they question the 'status quo', however. I myself believe this to be the beginning of true understanding. If we do not question, then we cannot gain further insight. Indeed, doubt is one of the strongest tools for learning, imo.

Many atheist shun me, just as most Christians shun me. I'm kinda in the middle right now. I believe in G-d, but I fall short of believing in the the G-d described in scripture. He seems far too angry, and merciless, and mean, and blood thirsty to be real in my mind. Even so, I have somehow held on to a belief in something greater than myself. I think ones theology is useless in the grand scheme of things. I myself believe that a persons condition of heart is what matters most.

I have realized that my actions and attitudes effects the whole of society in one way or another. When I seek peace, and when I am mindful of my attitude and actions, I always seem to fair better then when I'm not. I try to show a degree of love for all people. I do so because I know we are all pretty much the same. We all have our hardships, we all make mistakes, we all suffer, and we are all in this life together.

With all that being said, I admire Jesus for what He did, and for His words, and for His passion for humanity. I somehow believe that He was touched by G-d in that He lived a lifestyle few of us could ever live. (G-ds Son? I certainly think so) I believe He loved G-d, and I also believe He loved us. He did however show a temper, and He rebuked many harshly. If Jesus were here today, He would most certainly rebuke many of the fundamentalists, evangelists, and many other self proclaiming Christians on this earth. They [IMO] are much like the Scribes, and Pharisees in our modern world. "Let He who is w/o sin cast the first stone"

How many Christians pick up the stone of judgment then bludgeon over the head those whom don't adhere to their personal theology? How many are willing to simply live and let live? How many show love, and compassion to all people? How many are mindful of what they themselves do? Instead of getting our own house in order, we so often take out their anger, and resentment, and bitterness, and hate on those who view things differently than we do. I don't know, I'm very frustrated with Christianity, and religion in general, and even more frustrated with myself. I know what I ought to do, but it is difficult to just let others be who they are without my personal judgments getting the best of me.

I follow Jesus in as much as He told me to love even my enemy. I personally believe love is the answer to the worlds problems, and also the answer to the condition of humanity. The problem is that very view value love above themselves, and their own desires. That is why we have such a screwed up world. It is a result of selfish desire, lack of mindfulness, and lack of love/compassion for those we share this world with. I do think that many are growing past our need to be right, however. I think there are many whom have realized the kingdom within. Maybe this will be true for me one day?

Can anyone else relate?

GK

Sounds like you have had a religious upbringing but are now starting to think for yourself ?

is that right ?

But thats fine, just because as a Christian I have faith does not mean that I should switch of my brain ! Real Christianity is so profound that most people dont understand it and end up completely missing the point.

Intellect will only get you so far, God is spirit so if we want to connect with God it needs to be via our spirits.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. They are much appreciated. It seems you are much more accepting, and understanding than what I am accustomed to. Your words are indeed an encouragement.

I had a dream last night. It was about "Truth", or rather G-ds reality. It was almost like when I began my journey, I was very distant from G-ds reality. As I progressed (In my dream) I got closer to "Truth". Certain things, which were once hazy became much clearer to me as I got closer, and closer. In my dream I envisioned a magnifying glass, where every little detail was shown with more clarity than I had ever experienced, but when I awoke, the clarity was once again haze in the distance.

I'm not sure what to make of it, but I think it might mean that the closer I draw toward G-d, the more He will reveal Himself to me. This is a comforting thought to say the least, but I do have my questions. I guess the questions are: "How do I draw closer?" "Can I do anything other than desire to know Him?" "Am I drawing closer, or drifting away?"

Btw, Netti Netti ~ Love is available for all people to experience, and display. I never suggested otherwise. I'm not one who belive it necessary to have a mental concept of G-d in order to experience who He is.

Anyway, thanks again for the understanding, encouragement, and acceptance. It means a great deal to me. You all are great!!

GK

 

[Tao_Equus]

I say if I'm wrong, I don't want to be right.

The kernel of profoundest truth on which all belief is built.

 

[Dondi]

With all that being said, I admire Jesus for what He did, and for His words, and for His passion for humanity. I somehow believe that He was touched by G-d in that He lived a lifestyle few of us could ever live. (G-ds Son? I certainly think so) I believe He loved G-d, and I also believe He loved us. He did however show a temper, and He rebuked many harshly. If Jesus were here today, He would most certainly rebuke many of the fundamentalists, evangelists, and many other self proclaiming Christians on this earth. They [IMO] are much like the Scribes, and Pharisees in our modern world. "Let He who is w/o sin cast the first stone"

How many Christians pick up the stone of judgment then bludgeon over the head those whom don't adhere to their personal theology? How many are willing to simply live and let live? How many show love, and compassion to all people? How many are mindful of what they themselves do? Instead of getting our own house in order, we so often take out their anger, and resentment, and bitterness, and hate on those who view things differently than we do. I don't know, I'm very frustrated with Christianity, and religion in general, and even more frustrated with myself. I know what I ought to do, but it is difficult to just let others be who they are without my personal judgments getting the best of me.

First, I just want to say that I commend you for wanting to breakfrom tradition. I think that it is healthy to loom outside the box of your religoius paradigm. I went through a similiar experience several years ago and it gave me some fresh perspective.

Secondly, I think we need to elaborate on Jesus' quote about "Let He who is w/o sin cast the first stone" how you have equated it with how "Christians pick up the stone of judgment then bludgeon over the head those whom don't adhere to their personal theology". In the first place, the punishment being dealt with in the orginal context was the punishment of the woman who was caught in adultery, not theology. I mean, I know where you were going with this, but may I remind you that Jesus berated the Pharisee's with their theology:

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." - Matthew 23:23

So the question is: Was Jesus throwing stones at the Pharisees? What business was it of His to rag on the Pharisees? Or how about that time that he showed anger at the Temple when moneychangers were selling sacrifices? Was it justifiable anger? Was He showing love? Or was He showing truth? Or both?

Now going back to Christians. You seem to think that Christians has their own personal theology. I can understand this if I told you that I was the Messiah. But the 'personal theology" you claim is really biblical theology as Christians understand it. It's not that Christians are trying to establish thier own religion, though they might claim to have a personal relationship with God. But most Christians will agree on the essentials of the Christian faith, i.e. Christ, the Son of Godm died for the sins of man and rose again the third day (I Cor. 15:1-3). The arguments only come from variants of interpretation, or in many cases misinterpretation. Granted, the bible isn't an easy read, those the basic message that filters through is.

Pointing fingers ought not to be the Christian's duty. However, in order that we know how to love, we also must know how to act. The Law teaches how we ought to treat God and our neighbor. In obeying the Law, we show love. We honor God, and we maintain good relationships with our neighbor, even our enemies. And that is basically what Jesus taught.

The problem is that we are so prone to disobey, and in this day and age it gets easier and easier, that we need help. And that is where God's Spirit comes in. If we can harness the power of His Love, then we can love others. And I believe that is what your dream is all about. If we stick closer to God, the changes in our life, our attitudes, and perspectives will become clearer and we will begin to love as He wants us to love.

Are you losing you religion? Maybe that's a good thing, for then you're relationship with God won't be filtered through the lens of that religion and become more pure. Religion's function is to provide instruction and structure so that one day you can transcend it and have something you can call your own.

 

[c0de]

. I guess the questions are: "How do I draw closer?" "Can I do anything other than desire to know Him?" "Am I drawing closer, or drifting away?"

Well, different faiths will disagree with the specifics, but there is a lot of
common ground. You can call yourself whatever you wish, a Jew, Muslim,
Christian, whatever... It doesn't matter... basically: just act on your faith
by turning it into good deeds.... that is all. My scripture (the Quran) for
example just states a very simple criteria for getting closer to God:

1. Believe in God (and God alone)
2. Do good deeds (be a good person)
3. And believe in Judgment Day (the afterlife)

 

[Tao_Equus]

Well, different faiths will disagree with the specifics, but there is a lot of
common ground. You can call yourself whatever you wish, a Jew, Muslim,
Christian, whatever... It doesn't matter... basically: just act on your faith
by turning it into good deeds.... that is all. My scripture (the Quran) for
example just states a very simple criteria for getting closer to God:

1. Believe in God (and God alone)
2. Do good deeds (be a good person)
3. And believe in Judgment Day (the afterlife)

or..

1: Believe in unquestioning authority.
2: Do as that authority tells you (this includes killing when commanded)
3: Believe in eternal damnation if you have the courage to 'mortally' call that bluff.

 

[Gatekeeper]

First, I just want to say that I commend you for wanting to breakfrom tradition. I think that it is healthy to loom outside the box of your religoius paradigm. I went through a similiar experience several years ago and it gave me some fresh perspective.

Secondly, I think we need to elaborate on Jesus' quote about "Let He who is w/o sin cast the first stone" how you have equated it with how "Christians pick up the stone of judgment then bludgeon over the head those whom don't adhere to their personal theology". In the first place, the punishment being dealt with in the orginal context was the punishment of the woman who was caught in adultery, not theology. I mean, I know where you were going with this, but may I remind you that Jesus berated the Pharisee's with their theology:

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." - Matthew 23:23

So the question is: Was Jesus throwing stones at the Pharisees? What business was it of His to rag on the Pharisees? Or how about that time that he showed anger at the Temple when moneychangers were selling sacrifices? Was it justifiable anger? Was He showing love? Or was He showing truth? Or both?

Now going back to Christians. You seem to think that Christians has their own personal theology. I can understand this if I told you that I was the Messiah. But the 'personal theology" you claim is really biblical theology as Christians understand it. It's not that Christians are trying to establish thier own religion, though they might claim to have a personal relationship with God. But most Christians will agree on the essentials of the Christian faith, i.e. Christ, the Son of Godm died for the sins of man and rose again the third day (I Cor. 15:1-3). The arguments only come from variants of interpretation, or in many cases misinterpretation. Granted, the bible isn't an easy read, those the basic message that filters through is.

Pointing fingers ought not to be the Christian's duty. However, in order that we know how to love, we also must know how to act. The Law teaches how we ought to treat God and our neighbor. In obeying the Law, we show love. We honor God, and we maintain good relationships with our neighbor, even our enemies. And that is basically what Jesus taught.

The problem is that we are so prone to disobey, and in this day and age it gets easier and easier, that we need help. And that is where God's Spirit comes in. If we can harness the power of His Love, then we can love others. And I believe that is what your dream is all about. If we stick closer to God, the changes in our life, our attitudes, and perspectives will become clearer and we will begin to love as He wants us to love.

Are you losing you religion? Maybe that's a good thing, for then you're relationship with God won't be filtered through the lens of that religion and become more pure. Religion's function is to provide instruction and structure so that one day you can transcend it and have something you can call your own.

Dondi, good points on all accounts [IMO] When I referred to "let he who is w/o sin" I was referring to the self righteous attitudes many Christians display, ready to throw a stone at any and all things that don't support their own interpretation of scripture.

There are many variables to consider, many different angles, and perceptions. As you said, the bible is not an easy read, and can certainly be interpreted many different ways. I myself have been accused of blashphemy, of being a heretic, a gnostic new age infidel damned to hell. All because I don't view jesus to be G-d on earth. I certaily believe Him to be G-ds son, and that He rose the third day, and that our hope for glory is Christ in us, but many wish to bludgeon me with doctrine alone, and their interpretation of. I have done the same, but I know that I know very little, and my attempts to correct others are in vain as I myself am not perfect like Jesus was perfect. My theology is not on par with the thuth Jesus held within himself. That's the reality, dondi. We are not perfect in heart, mind, or theology ~ None of us, so I find it pointless to attempt to correct others when I myself may be wrong.

Now, my faith is unwavering. My faith in the love of G-d, and in His son are as strong as they come. I simply doubt the theology, and religion that we hold on to with a grip of steel, and at times beat, and banter others with. I hope you see my point. There are so many interpretations of scripture, so many denominations, etc ... We all can't be right, so I choose to focus on that which I have realized to be true through experience, and that is the love G-d has for me, and every other person on this earth.

Thanks for your post, Dondi - I've always respected your insightfulness. I hope you can see where I am comming from, though.

God Bless

GK

 

[Gatekeeper]

Well, different faiths will disagree with the specifics, but there is a lot of
common ground. You can call yourself whatever you wish, a Jew, Muslim,
Christian, whatever... It doesn't matter... basically: just act on your faith
by turning it into good deeds.... that is all. My scripture (the Quran) for
example just states a very simple criteria for getting closer to God:

1. Believe in God (and God alone)
2. Do good deeds (be a good person)
3. And believe in Judgment Day (the afterlife)

Or perhaps ?? ....

1) Believe in the love G-d has for us
2) act in accordance to that love
3) know you can be free form death (Figurative) by doing so

"Do unto to others as you would have others do unto you"

GK

 

[c0de]

@ Gatekeeper + NewDawn

Or perhaps ?? ....

1) Believe in the love G-d has for us
2) act in accordance to that love
3) know you can be free form death (Figurative) by doing so

"Do unto to others as you would have others do unto you"

GK

Well, there you go

or..

1: Believe in unquestioning authority.
2: Do as that authority tells you (this includes killing when commanded)
3: Believe in eternal damnation if you have the courage to 'mortally' call that bluff.

Believing in the authority of God alone cancels out the need to carry
out the orders of materialistic political ideologies, which are the
real source of these wars. And btw, there is no such thing as
"eternal" damnation according to the Quran.

 

[Nick_A]

I still believe in G-d. Although not the G-d described in scripture. Most will call my version of G-d idolatry. I say if I'm wrong, I don't want to be right. It is very difficult to deprogram ones self from many years of indoctrination. I think many (Obviously) do come to the point where they question the 'status quo', however. I myself believe this to be the beginning of true understanding. If we do not question, then we cannot gain further insight. Indeed, doubt is one of the strongest tools for learning, imo.

Many atheist shun me, just as most Christians shun me. I'm kinda in the middle right now. I believe in G-d, but I fall short of believing in the the G-d described in scripture. He seems far too angry, and merciless, and mean, and blood thirsty to be real in my mind. Even so, I have somehow held on to a belief in something greater than myself. I think ones theology is useless in the grand scheme of things. I myself believe that a persons condition of heart is what matters most.

I have realized that my actions and attitudes effects the whole of society in one way or another. When I seek peace, and when I am mindful of my attitude and actions, I always seem to fair better then when I'm not. I try to show a degree of love for all people. I do so because I know we are all pretty much the same. We all have our hardships, we all make mistakes, we all suffer, and we are all in this life together.

With all that being said, I admire Jesus for what He did, and for His words, and for His passion for humanity. I somehow believe that He was touched by G-d in that He lived a lifestyle few of us could ever live. (G-ds Son? I certainly think so) I believe He loved G-d, and I also believe He loved us. He did however show a temper, and He rebuked many harshly. If Jesus were here today, He would most certainly rebuke many of the fundamentalists, evangelists, and many other self proclaiming Christians on this earth. They [IMO] are much like the Scribes, and Pharisees in our modern world. "Let He who is w/o sin cast the first stone"

How many Christians pick up the stone of judgment then bludgeon over the head those whom don't adhere to their personal theology? How many are willing to simply live and let live? How many show love, and compassion to all people? How many are mindful of what they themselves do? Instead of getting our own house in order, we so often take out their anger, and resentment, and bitterness, and hate on those who view things differently than we do. I don't know, I'm very frustrated with Christianity, and religion in general, and even more frustrated with myself. I know what I ought to do, but it is difficult to just let others be who they are without my personal judgments getting the best of me.

I follow Jesus in as much as He told me to love even my enemy. I personally believe love is the answer to the worlds problems, and also the answer to the condition of humanity. The problem is that very view value love above themselves, and their own desires. That is why we have such a screwed up world. It is a result of selfish desire, lack of mindfulness, and lack of love/compassion for those we share this world with. I do think that many are growing past our need to be right, however. I think there are many whom have realized the kingdom within. Maybe this will be true for me one day?

Can anyone else relate?

GK

I know from personal experience that it is unpleasant but I do believe you are psychologically in a good and necessary place. Consider from the Gospel of Thomas

(2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."

You've now become troubled. The old doesn't satisfy anymore and the new hasn't come. I know how awkward this is. At some point you may become astonished at a new direction being offered to help. It was known in the past as "metnaoia."