Is the Christian God the same as the Muslim God?

marcoav

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Peace by upon you

And upon you too, my friend.

:)


and the highest of them all is to associate partners with Allah, the One and Only Creator aned Sustainer of the universe.

Separative is the limited view of the Spirits immersed in the worlds of form [i.e. the physical world]; only Oneness IS in the worlds of Spirit.

Thus 'we' are taught:

God's
.Will aspect in Creation is manifest in The Father
.Wisdom aspect in Creation is manifest in The Son
..Christ, is The Son: the Solar[Sun] Logos (Logos: Wisdom; a visible effect in civilization: solar calendar adoption)
.Activity aspect in Creation is manifest in The Holy Spirit
..Allah/Jehova is The Holy Spirit: the Lunar Deity, His chief Angel being Gabriel
...majority of planets have moons; a visible effect in civilization: lunar calendar adoption based on cycles of the moon phase:
a.1) "... in your new moons, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt-offerings," Num 10:10;
a.2) The Islamic calendar is based on visibility of the crescent Moon.
b) the Islamic and Jewish weekdays begin at sunset, whereas the medieavel Christian and planetary weekdays begin at the following midnight [sun]
....Note also that: "The Holy Spirit is the creative energy in Nature, and the sex energy is its reflection in man. Misuse or abuse of that power is the sin that is not forgiven [Matthew 12:31], but must be expiated in impaired efficiency [illness, disease, ...] of the vehicle [the dense physical body: which is the visible instrument we use here in this world to fetch and carry (the body we ordinarily think of as the whole man)] in order thoroughly to teach us the sanctity of the creative force."


My dear friend marcoav, it's great to see you spending time contemplating on the 'higher truth'..., but my friend, without Gods guidance, esoteric thinking on one's own could be deceptive in a verry subtle way in which the wondering mind thinks he's aquiring a high level of spiritual truth but in reality it is full of subtle deceptions

Words of Wisdom have you spoken concerning the subtle dangers of illusion, of "getting things out of focus", in the unseen world. However, being not my intention to deceive and being yet far from becoming a Teacher, please allow to refer your words, dear Abdullah, to the Guidance whom (I) call "O Eu Alado", that is, The Winged Self:


The_Winged_Self.bmp


" Our God who art our Winged Self
It is Thy will in us that willeth
It is Thy desire in us that desireth
It is Thy urge in us, that would
Turn our nights, which are Thine
Into days, which are Thine also.

We cannot ask Thee for aught
For Thou knowest our needs
Before they are born in us.
Thou art our need
And in giving us more of Thyself
Thou givest all. "
 

Abdullah

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And upon you too, my friend.

:)


Separative is the limited view of the Spirits immersed in the worlds of form [i.e. the physical world]; only Oneness IS in the worlds of Spirit.

Thus 'we' are taught:

God's
.Will aspect in Creation is manifest in The Father
.Wisdom aspect in Creation is manifest in The Son
..Christ, is The Son: the Solar[Sun] Logos (Logos: Wisdom; a visible effect in civilization: solar calendar adoption)
.Activity aspect in Creation is manifest in The Holy Spirit
..Allah/Jehova is The Holy Spirit: the Lunar Deity, His chief Angel being Gabriel
...majority of planets have moons; a visible effect in civilization: lunar calendar adoption based on cycles of the moon phase:
a.1) "... in your new moons, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt-offerings," Num 10:10;
a.2) The Islamic calendar is based on visibility of the crescent Moon.
b) the Islamic and Jewish weekdays begin at sunset, whereas the medieavel Christian and planetary weekdays begin at the following midnight [sun]
....Note also that: "The Holy Spirit is the creative energy in Nature, and the sex energy is its reflection in man. Misuse or abuse of that power is the sin that is not forgiven [Matthew 12:31], but must be expiated in impaired efficiency [illness, disease, ...] of the vehicle [the dense physical body: which is the visible instrument we use here in this world to fetch and carry (the body we ordinarily think of as the whole man)] in order thoroughly to teach us the sanctity of the creative force."


However, being not my intention to deceive

peace my dear friend,

And I'm sure it is not... :),

What you say is verry interesting my dear friend, but where did all of these ideas come from?; the Bible? if it has then how can we put our trust in a Book that is proven to be distorted with it's many contradictions and revisions? and is not the core foundation of faith; God being One, incredibily contradictory too, where it is considered a man and spirit is part of God?; indeed it is thus there is ample proof there itself that the Bible has been interpolated by man-made additions and omissions throughout the centuries...

God has communicated clear signs to us in His revelations, thus if His core message is that of monothiesm, i.e, that God is one without partners, then common sense and logic tells us that that message should be verry clear indeed, thus it dont make any sense at all to make this the core foundational principle that faith rests on and then to try interpret this monothiesm as 1 in 3 and 3 in 1, where a man and spirit share in it too; this infact occurs to the common sense as the antithesis of monothiesm where parts of the creation is associated with God and then some round about, unsatisfactory logic is applied to it to try to harmonise it; it would occur to one that satan is trying to pull a fast one on humans here :(

Just imagine my friend that God says to you on the Day of Judgement, 'I commanded you not to associate partners with me but you still insisted on doing so; why was that'?, and you reply, 'but God I never, for Jesus is your son or part of you and so is that holy spirit", and God says, 'whoever told you that that was so', and you say, 'I found it in the Bible' and God says, "well couldn't you see the Bible was full of contradictions and errors and that it had undergone many revisions so why did you put your trust in such a book when you wouldn't do the same with a science book?; now what is more important, learing science or the matter of salvation?, yet you throw your scruples away when it came to the matter of salvation"

and being yet far from becoming a Teacher, please allow to refer your words, dear Abdullah, to the Guidance whom (I) call "O Eu Alado", that is, The Winged Self:

" Our God who art our Winged Self
It is Thy will in us that willeth
It is Thy desire in us that desireth
It is Thy urge in us, that would
Turn our nights, which are Thine
Into days, which are Thine also.

We cannot ask Thee for aught
For Thou knowest our needs
Before they are born in us.
Thou art our need
And in giving us more of Thyself

Thou givest all. "

Translations of the Qur'an, Chapter 112: AL-IKHLAS (SINCERITY)

Total Verses: 4
Revealed At: MAKKA
112.001-4 PICKTHAL: Say: He is Allah, the One! Allah, the eternally Besought of all! He begetteth not nor was begotten. And there is none like unto Him.

peace :)
 

Bandit

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Peace--
As a Muslim, I believe that God I believe in revealed Himself to Jesus pbuh as He did to prophets pbut before Jesus, as well as Muhammad pbuh.
However, I do not believe that today's Christians (majority) and Muslims believe in the same God.
Christians believe their God to be a union of three separate beings, and also they are pretty divided whether Jesus pbuh was their god or part of their god.
Muslims do not believe that you can limit God into anything, including humans. To believe His creation to be divine is blasphemy and idolatry. He is One in our eyes, Unseen, Eternal, Omnipresent and always knows everything.

exactly. some gods turn into humans and become limited and other gods can never become human or limited to something finite. they are not the same god and they never will be.
 
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Now, if I may ask you a question in return: How are you able to worship God if God is, by Islamic beliefs I've been told, unknowable?

I know the question is directed to Netti-Netti, then sorry for putting my "nose" in to answer:D:p

God in Islam is not unknowable. The Quran is full of God's characteristcs that are sufficient enough to know Him. Also, the prophet Muhammed peace be upon him provide us with God's ninety nine names of God that if one study each one very deep, then he will taste the sweet of pure monothesism.

Ar-Rahman (الرحمن)
The Beneficent

2
Ar-Rahim (الرحيم)
The Merciful

4
Al-Quddus (القدوس)
The Holy

5
As-Salaam (السلام)
The Source of Peace

6
Al-Mu’min (المؤمن)
The Guardian of Faith

7
Al-Muhaymin (المهيمن)
The Protector

8
Al-Aziz (العزيز)
The Mighty

9
Al-Jabbar (الجبار)
The Compeller

10
Al-Mutakabbir (المتكبر)
The Majestic

11
Al-Khaaliq (الخالق)
The Creator

12
Al-Bari’ (البارئ)
The Evolver

13
Al-Musawwir (المصور)
The Fashioner

14
Al-Ghaffaar (الغفار)
The Forgiver

15
Al-Qahhaar (القهار)
The Subduer

16
Al-Wahhaab (الوهاب)
The Bestower

17
Ar-Razzaaq (الرزاق)
The Provider

18
Al-Fattaah (الفتاح)
The Opener

19
Al-`Aleem (العليم)
The All-Knowing

20
Al-Qaabid (القابض)
The Constrictor
Step2
21
Al-Baasit (الباسط)
The Expander

22
Al-Khaafid (الخافض)
The Abaser

23
Ar-Raafi’e (الرافع)
The Exalter

24
Al-Mu’izz (المعز)
The Honourer

25
Al-Muzill (المذل)
The Dishonourer

26
As-Sami’ (السميع)
The All Hearer

27
Al-Basir (البصير)
The All-Seeing

28
Al-Hakam (الحكم)
The Judge

29
Al-`Adl (العدل)
The Just

30
Al-Lateef (اللطيف)
The Subtle One

31
Al-Khabir (الخبير)
The Aware

32
Al-Halim (الحليم)
The Forbearing One

33
Al-Azeem (العظيم)
The Great One

34
Al-Ghafoor (الغفور)
The All-Forgiving

35
Ash-Shakur (الشكور)
The Appreciative

36
Al-Ali (العلي)
The Most High

37
Al-Kabeer (الكبير)
The Most Great

38
Al-Hafeez (الحفيظ)
The Preserver

39
Al-Muqeet (المقيت)
The Maintainer

40
Al-Hasib (الحسيب)
The Reckoner
Step3
41
Al-Jalil (الجليل)
The Sublime One

42
Al-Kareem (الكريم)
The Generous One

43
Ar-Riqeeb (الرقيب)
The Watchful

44
Al-Mujeeb (المجيب)
The Responsive

45
Al-Wasse’e (الواسع)
The All-Embracing

46
Al-Hakeem (الحكيم)
The Wise

47
Al-Wadood (الودود)
The Loving, The Kind One

48
Al-Majeed (المجيد)
The All Glorious

49
Al-Ba’ith (الباعث)
The Resurrector

50
Ash-Shaheed (الشهيد)
The Witness

51
Al-Haqq (الحق)
The Truth

52
Al-Wakeel (الوكيل)
The Trustee

53
Al-Qawai (القوى)
The Most Strong

54
Al-Mateen (المتين)
The Firm One

55
Al-Walai (الولى)
The Protecting Friend, Patron and Helper

56
Al-Hamid (الحميد)
The Praiseworthy

57
Al-Muhsi (المحصى)
The Reckoner

58
Al-Mubdi’ (المبدئ)
The Originator

59
Al-Mu’id (المعيد)
The Restorer

60
Al-Muhyee (المحيى)
The Giver of Life
Step4
61
Al-Mumeet (المميت)
The Creator of Death

62
Al-Hai (الحي)
The Alive

63
Al-Qaiyyum (القيوم)
The Self Subsisting

64
Al-Waajid (الواجد)
The Finder

65
Al-Maajid (الماجد)
The Noble

66
Al-Waahid (الواحد)
The Unique One

67
Al-Ahad (الاحد)
The Absolute One

68
As-Samad (الصمد)
The Eternal and Besought

69
Al-Qaadir (القادر)
The Able

70
Al-Muqtadir (المقتدر)
The Powerful

71
Al-Muqaaddim (المقدم)
The Expeditor

72
Al-Mu’akhir (المؤخر)
The Delayer

73
Al-Awwal (الأول)
The First

74
Al-Akhir (الأخر)
The Last

75
Az-Zaahir (الظاهر)
The Manifest

76
Al-Baatin (الباطن)
The Hidden

77
Al-Waali (الوالي)
The Governor

78
Al-Muta’aali (المتعالي)
The Most Exalted

79
Al-Barr (البر)
The Source of All Goodness

80
At-Tawwaab (التواب)
The Acceptor of Repentance
Step5
99 NAMES 81
Al-Muntaqim (المنتقم)
The Avenger

82
Al-’Afu (العفو)
The Pardoner

83
Ar-Ra’uf (الرؤوف)
The Compassionate

84
Malik-al-Mulk (مالك الملك)
The External Owner of Sovereignty

85
Dhu-al-Jalali wa-al-Ikram (ذو الجلال و الإكرام)
The Lord of Majesty and Bounty

86
Al-Muqsit (المقسط)
The Equitable

87
Al-Jaami’ (الجامع)
The Gatherer

88
Al-Ghani (الغنى)
The Self-Sufficient

89
Al-Mughni (المغنى)
The Enricher

90
Al-Maani’ (المانع)
The Preventer

91
Ad-Darr (الضار)
The Distresser

92
An-Nafi’ (النافع)
The Propitious

93
An-Nur (النور)
The Light

94
Al-Haadi (الهادي)
The Guide

95
Al-Baadi’ (البديع)
The Incomparable

96
Al-Baaqi (الباقي)
The Everlasting

97
Al-Waarith (الوارث)
The Supreme Inheritor

98
Ar-Rashid (الرشيد)
The Guide to the right path

99
As-Sabur (الصبور)
The Patient
 

Marsh

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I know the question is directed to Netti-Netti, then sorry for putting my "nose" in to answer:D:p

God in Islam is not unknowable. The Quran is full of God's characteristcs that are sufficient enough to know Him. Also, the prophet Muhammed peace be upon him provide us with God's ninety nine names of God that if one study each one very deep, then he will taste the sweet of pure monothesism.


Fair enough, and quite an interesting post. Someone else on this thread (I think it's this thread) who is a Muslim asserted that according to Islam God is unknowable, so I just assumed that it was so.
 

nativeastral

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The_Winged_Self.bmp


" Our God who art our Winged Self
It is Thy will in us that willeth
It is Thy desire in us that desireth
It is Thy urge in us, that would
Turn our nights, which are Thine
Into days, which are Thine also.

We cannot ask Thee for aught
For Thou knowest our needs
Before they are born in us.
Thou art our need
And in giving us more of Thyself
Thou givest all. "

such a lovely image. are not 99 names and the trinity analogous? must we totally deny any association with the divine? it is a personal relationship right? instead of flinging 'satan' at one another surely the core is to evolve lovingly, spiritually, gifts endowed to be developed imagio dei?:rolleyes:
 
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Fair enough, and quite an interesting post. Someone else on this thread (I think it's this thread) who is a Muslim asserted that according to Islam God is unknowable, so I just assumed that it was so.




[112:0] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
[112:1] Proclaim, "He is the One and only GOD.
[112:2] "The Absolute GOD.
[112:3] "Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten.
<A name=4>[112:4] "None equals Him."

Hence to say that God is unkownable in Islam is meant to be in the pysical side. God as an etity is unkownable.

Yet, the Quran makes it clear that a sincere, deep relation with God cant really start unless you fully know the characteristics of God. Hence, one's heart submits with great love to God, believing that it is only God who really enjoys the best attributes, and by connecting Him, one takes some of His attributes. One cant connect a rich person, and not becoming rich. One cant connect a wise man, and not becoming wise. One cant connect a strong person, and not feeling of security and strenght. Then, how about connecting God who enjoys the best Names and attributes.


[4:27] GOD wishes to redeem you, while those who pursue their lusts wish that you deviate a great deviation. [4:28] GOD wishes to lighten your burden, for the human being is created weak.
 

Netti-Netti

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I know the question is directed to Netti-Netti, then sorry for putting my "nose" in to answer:D:p

G-d in Islam is not unknowable. The Quran is full of God's characteristics that are sufficient enough to know Him.

According to al-Ghazali, G-d's attributes (sifat Allah) are "different from, yet added to, G-d's essence." The 99 Beautiful Names do not describe the absolute, impersonal Divine essence (dhât Allah) and do not define G-d's nature.

The attributes they are referring to could be considered manifestations of Divine Essence in the form of operations with respect to ascending mortals. These attributes could be considered be relational qualities in the sense that they describe qualities of G-d's relationship to His Creation.

The Wiki page says "hadith does not say that there are only 99 names, but 99 names that are better than the others." There could be a thousand names. These are just words we use to think with.

G-d's essential nature or "Cosmic Essence" is incomprensible and will remain forever unknown to mortal beings When someone says they know Allah as "an Infinite Whole," I think they are stating an abstract belief. Because we are finite, created beings, we are necessarily fragmentary and our understanding of Divine Reality is also fragmentary and incomplete.

G-d is not accessible to us as sensory experience or observation. This is why G-d will always be different from what we imagine Him to be.
 

citizenzen

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I thought my mouse was stuck and I had that image on constant highlight... It's meant to look like that? Someone needs to tinker with the levels...

Hey there! Citizenzen, professional graphic designer here with a special tip just for you kids!

When scanning a previously printed image, the dot pattern of the scanner and the printed image can interfere with each other and cause a moiré pattern.

Moiré pattern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sometimes this pattern may be ameliorated by rotating the image approximately 20º on the scanner, or by applying a Gaussian Blur in Photoshop. But in almost all cases the image will retain the visible trace of the pattern.

You kids be careful with those digital images. This is serious business. Somebody could get hurt.
 
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According to al-Ghazali, G-d's attributes (sifat Allah) are "different from, yet added to, G-d's essence." The 99 Beautiful Names do not describe the absolute, impersonal Divine essence (dhât Allah) and do not define G-d's nature.

The attributes they are referring to could be considered manifestations of Divine Essence in the form of operations with respect to ascending mortals. These attributes could be considered be relational qualities in the sense that they describe qualities of G-d's relationship to His Creation.

The Wiki page says "hadith does not say that there are only 99 names, but 99 names that are better than the others." There could be a thousand names. These are just words we use to think with.

G-d's essential nature or "Cosmic Essence" is incomprensible and will remain forever unknown to mortal beings When someone says they know Allah as "an Infinite Whole," I think they are stating an abstract belief. Because we are finite, created beings, we are necessarily fragmentary and our understanding of Divine Reality is also fragmentary and incomplete.

G-d is not accessible to us as sensory experience or observation. This is why G-d will always be different from what we imagine Him to be.

I agree Netti-Netti..

Actually, the essence of religion, any religion, is to know who you are to worship. Knowledge is all in all because once you know God, one's love grow to Him, and hence connecting him, following His commandments, and seeking His pleasure becomes a pleasure in itself as one always does his/her best to satisfy his/her beloved.

In other words, love comes with knowledge, then loyality, sincerity and faithfulness come with love.

As a Muslim, I used to state the 99 beautiful names of God without looking deeply at what they mean. It is till I watched him on TV. He is a very modest Muslim scholar. With his very low, sweet voice, and with his use of both logic and emtion to analyze, he attracted my attention. He said that the 99 names of God are not to be counted superficially. The counting of these names is to know truly and fully what each name means, and how a believer should apply those attributes to get near and close God. There is clear saying from the prophet Muhammed peace be upon him that we should have the morals of God.

I am very grateful to this scholar who really managed to help me to get near God by knowing his attributes very deeply and follow them in my daily life. He clears my heart from being attached to anything/anybody in this life as God has everything/everyone. It is only one direction that a Muslim's heart must follow: Allah. If Allah is with you, then who can be against you. If you find Allah, then you have found everything. But, if you dont find Allah, then what have you found?!

Here are some explanation of some of God's beautiful names from my favourite scholar: Mohammed Rateb Al Nabulsi. Just click one any name, and you get the full meaning of it:
names of Allah
 

Netti-Netti

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Hi,
Actually, the essence of religion, any religion, is to know who you are to worship.
I'm not sure how we reconcile this to what we find in the Abrahamic traditions: they deny that G-d is knowable.

seeking His pleasure becomes a pleasure in itself as one always does his/her best to satisfy his/her beloved.
Another way to describe this: harmonizing with the indwelling spirit.

In other words, love comes with knowledge, then loyality, sincerity and faithfulness come with love.
I would say that love is an expression of the indwelling spirit.

He said that the 99 names of God are not to be counted superficially. The counting of these names is to know truly and fully what each name means, and how a believer should apply those attributes to get near and close God.
This makes sense to me given that the 99 names of God can be seen as relational qualities as well as goals for our own development in becoming more G-dlike. I wonder if it would be more accurate to say that we are approximating the directives of the indwelling spirit rather than actually becoming "G-dlike." If G-d is unknowable, it follows that we have no real understanding of what it is to become "G-dlike."

There is clear saying from the prophet Muhammed peace be upon him that we should have the morals of God.
G-d's morals would be the standards He holds us to. Good and Evil are not an issue for G-d. They are an issue only for us.

If Allah is with you, then who can be against you. If you find Allah, then you have found everything.
I think He may have found you. :)
 
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Peace be upon you, Netti-Netti

I'm not sure how we reconcile this to what we find in the Abrahamic traditions: they deny that G-d is knowable.

Actually, to say that God is unknowable in the Quran is not very true unless it is meant in the physical aspect.

Through mediating into the universe, one feels there is a great Creator for all these. Hence, in order to know who is this creator, God sent prophets and messangers, and sent down Holy Books. What is the purpose of these Holy Books? Simply, to know Him. Hence, how can we still insist that God is still unkowable.

As a Muslim, The Quran for me is a love letter sent to His believers and His servants who want to establish a love realtion with Him. A love relation can never ever be established with lack of knowledge of the characteristics of the beloved. That's why, I cant hold that God is unkowable unless, as I said, it is meant in the physical aspect.

If G-d is unknowable, it follows that we have no real understanding of what it is to become "G-dlike."

Simply, by following the morals we know about Him. As a Muslim, there is a clear Quranic verse which says that there is God's breath in man's creation. Hence, this breath inside all of us,which is God's breath, wont be alive unless we educate our souls and follwing God's morals.

G-d's morals would be the standards He holds us to. Good and Evil are not an issue for G-d. They are an issue only for us.

Clear enough, Netti-Netti. That's why God is perfect and complete, and we arent. And that's why, we cant achieve that goal unless we depend on Him, ask His help, and surrender to His teachings..

I think He may have found you. :)

It is the enquiery of my life, Netti-Netti. God bless you. :)
 

Netti-Netti

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Peace be upon you, Netti-Netti
You too, brother Dailogue.

Through mediating into the universe, one feels there is a great Creator for all these. Hence, in order to know who is this creator, God sent prophets and messangers, and sent down Holy Books. What is the purpose of these Holy Books? Simply, to know Him. Hence, how can we still insist that God is still unkowable.
I agree we can know His will through Revelation. That's different from knowing G-d in His totality.

A love relation can never ever be established with lack of knowledge of the characteristics of the beloved. That's why, I cant hold that God is unkowable unless, as I said, it is meant in the physical aspect.
Our relation to the Creator is one of dependence. We are totally dependent on G-d for our existence. Religious practice does not in any way affect this fundamental fact. Potentially, religious practice can alter our knowledge and understanding of Divine will. This process seems to involve a shift from abstract mentalistic knowing (aql) to an activation of the spiritual heart (qalb).

What changes with this shift? Not the fact of G-d dependence. Rather, there is an increased self knowledge as a result of seeking "means of nearness to Him." (Koran 5.35). This is a manner of speaking, of course, because after all, as the Koran says, G-d is "with you wherever you are" (57:4) and "everywhere you turn, there is G-d's face. (He is everywhere and is all-embracing)." (2:115)

Simply, by following the morals we know about Him. As a Muslim, there is a clear Quranic verse which says that there is God's breath in man's creation. Hence, this breath inside all of us,which is God's breath, wont be alive unless we educate our souls and following God's morals.
I agree here. I believe practicing virtues is in effect a form of illumination. But what is being illuminated? G-d's character or the quality of the relationships that are open to the Divine Presence?


... God is perfect and complete, and we arent. And that's why, we cant achieve that goal unless we depend on Him, ask His help, and surrender to His teachings..
The shift from mentalistic knowing to activated spiritual heart is a transformed awareness of religious duties through the call of conscience. It is hearing a call to righteousness: "When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every person who calls for Me: Let them also, with a will, listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way." (Koran 2.186).
 
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I agree we can know His will through Revelation. That's different from knowing G-d in His totality.

I agree..

This process seems to involve a shift from abstract mentalistic knowing (aql) to an activation of the spiritual heart (qalb).

Also, we can compare this to the three status a true believer switch between: the status of "fear', the status of "hope" and the status of "love"..When a beiever is in an abstarct mentalistic knowing, the status of "fear" is present, but when the spiritual heart is activated, the believer becomes in the status of "hope" and "love"..

What changes with this shift? Not the fact of G-d dependence. Rather, there is an increased self knowledge as a result of seeking "means of nearness to Him." (Koran 5.35). This is a manner of speaking, of course, because after all, as the Koran says, G-d is "with you wherever you are" (57:4) and "everywhere you turn, there is G-d's face. (He is everywhere and is all-embracing)." (2:115)

I see that both are the same. We cant depend fully on God unless there is an extensive self knowledge resulted from seeking His nearness.

I agree here. I believe practicing virtues is in effect a form of illumination. But what is being illuminated? G-d's character or the quality of the relationships that are open to the Divine Presence?

The second one..


The shift from mentalistic knowing to activated spiritual heart is a transformed awareness of religious duties through the call of conscience. It is hearing a call to righteousness: "When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every person who calls for Me: Let them also, with a will, listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way." (Koran 2.186).

I agree, Netti-Netti. How come you have that big knowledge of the Quranic verses?! (just curious:confused:)

Peace:)
 

Will be

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Is the God, or gods of man, or woman, the same God, or gods of animals, plants, nature?

Don't tell me, tell nature.
 

Abdullah

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such a lovely image. are not 99 names and the trinity analogous? must we totally deny any association with the divine? it is a personal relationship right? instead of flinging 'satan' at one another surely the core is to evolve lovingly, spiritually, gifts endowed to be developed imagio dei?:rolleyes:

Hi native :),

The Mutazillah's [a sect that died out in the earlier days of Islam] argued that God had no attributes seperate from His essence, but rather they all emanated from it, i.e, God knew from His essence, willed from His essence, etc, in other words, God was the omniscient without the attribute of knowledge and He 'willed' without the attribute of Will added to His essence, etc [this led the Sunni Scholars to accuse the Mutazillah of 'denying Gods attributes' and to charge them with heresy]; The Mutazilla had adopted that position in concern to the Sunni position which they thought was more simmilar to the Christian doctrine of the trinity, and thus more closer to polythiesm than monothiesm;

the Sunni's responded with a suprarational attempt at avoiding the polythiesm with which they were accused, by saying that Gods attributes were neither part of Gods essence, nor were they not part of it [I think that this may mean, we do not consider it to be part of Gods essence, nor not part of it and we leave it to God as to how His attributes are, but one thing for sure is that they are not 'parts' of God for God absolutely is unique, thus He is far above the 'parts' concept which could occur to the human mind]


Peace :)
 

Abdullah

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...Gods attributes were neither part of Gods essence, nor were they not part of it ...

The above paraphrasing troubles me a bit so I'll rephrase it to a more acurate one:

Gods attributes are in addition to Gods essence, in such a way that they niether are Gods essence, nor are they anything but Gods essence
 
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We can not use the opinion of other people as the sole basis for what we believe or what is in fact true. so it doesn't matter if people with prejudicial attitudes do Not think that the One God is the same for all people.

also, sharing my own personal experience....at work sometimes my coworkers mix up my name and call me by another. As we get older we sometimes even forget the names of those we love, respect and are close to. However, the connection of heart is there, so no offense is taken. The connection of heart is most important. If people really know who I am, if we have a relationship, this is the important thing. could God feel the same?
 
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