Is the Christian God the same as the Muslim God?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by citizenzen, Mar 2, 2009.

  1. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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    There is no problem. Conflicts are manufactured and have no intrinsic reality. Their historical forms are real within the time-space realm, but the underlying motivational processes are mentalistic and largely false or delusional. "Realists" who believe that cooperation is fleeting and unreliable forget that this realm is the imperfect expression of a potential that is ultimately unknowable. Yet they presume to know it only from the imperfect expressions in history.

    The manufacture of conflict is among these imperfect expressions. It is rooted in flawed understandings about self-interest and about the importance of human sovereignty in the ultimate scheme of things. It also involves misconceptions about the value of of promoting religious ideas by means of hate mongering, misleading propaganda, vague generalities, a persistent failure to attend to facts, and reliance on emotional imagery that in effect serves to perpetuate paranoid illusions of creature separateness and isolation.

    Not surprisingly, intensifying a sense of vulnerability and exacerbating the wounds of the world causes people to feel threatened and angry. I believe people do this out of an attachment to an illusory sense of control derived from bypassing their authentic possibilities. It is compulsive narcissism that has caused the person to lose sight of their destiny, which leads them to try to control their environment instead of working on themselves.

    A living faith, humility, and dependence on the Heavenly Father, who is a G-d of Love, alleviates the man-made tensions and reveals that the progress of the ascending soul is all that really matters. From that perspective, the real spiritual status of a religion is determined from its ability to bring spiritual forces into focus and thereby facilitate the authentic, creative choices through which the soul discovers its true destiny. I personally believe that any religion can help make it happen, depending on how it's used. It doesn't even have to be an Abrahamic religion.

    Ultimately, there are only individual applications of a religion. From that perspective, it's academic to talk about differences between religions. Generalities mean very little. And they mean even less when presented in the absence of facts.
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Namaste Bandit,

    True, factual as I see it...but. I see the same for everything. I've seen brothers fight near to the death...brothers...kin, blood. And I've read of worse. I don't care what you label humans, eventually they will be at odds with each other whether it is by nation, religion, family feuds, company they work for or whatever.

    If you have a million on one side and a million on another...it isn't really the religion that is the fault of the war..it is a power grab, money, greed, control that has taken hold in the religion that causes the devisiveness.

    the more that group together, the more reason they have to group together and maintain control of what they have and expand their territory.

    I think this has nothing to do with G!d or religion....but man.
     
  3. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    I can seperate it, but not the same way you do, wil.

    I think it has everything to do with religions and men and perhaps not so much the gods. If you are saying religions do not infect and affect men to do terrible things, I would have to totally disagree with that. Or what about this? men create their religions and then worship their religions instead of their gods. with the gods standing alone now that may be best explained by example. You know the jewish god and the jewish masses were always complaining in those old scriptures and they were rarely happy with each other. Take the OT where that one god says thou shalt have no other gods before me and religion becomes the god OR they go and get the gods from other nations. now their god is not happy. Or this one: god says do not murder. then that same god says -go murder these people because they have a different god than you and then steal their land from them.

    In respect to what you are saying about the gods having nothing to do with it, that might be true if we look at it like this: their god according to THEIR RELIGION, may have told someone do not murder but then someone else IN THAT RELIGION got it in their mind that they did not like the other gods in religions and came up with GOD TOLD US/ME "start a war and KILL THEM ALL, destroy their religions AND TAKE THEIR LAND". once you hear god said...then you cannot seperate it the way you are saying, at least not through any form of agreement within those religions. Not that I actually care because I don't, but see what I mean?

    conlusion of the matter in distinguising the three (gods, religions, men) it was never a god who said to do that in the first place, it was the imaginations of men due to their religions, then someone wrote down "THE GODS SAY do this and do that" -when it was/is really humans speaking confusions and gross darkness. That makes more sense to me. and oh ya! thanks for the honesty in the first part of your posting.
     
  4. nativeastral

    nativeastral fluffy future

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    the problem with devoting to a one with all the [paradoxical] attribute it has bred intolerance of others and exclusivity to the point where l've heard a perfectly intelligent and rational christian say his was the TRUE religion and there are FALSE ones. now these truth claims cannot be justified cos at the end of the day imho it is entirely experiential with an individual and 'personal' god ie one who you pray to. this is why it it such a SHAME that the Abrahamic religions cannot see eye to eye when really they should [though l dont like saying should];perhaps if all three religions had developed around about the same time then they would be more tolerant of each other as in sananta dharma hinduism.
    l repeat why have the goddesses been 'swept under the carpet'? herein may lie the 'problem'.
    peace
     
  5. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    BINGO ding! ding! ding! another winner!:) I cant begin to correct a problem until I admit there is one and pinpoint what the problem is.
     
  6. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    The problem is we take political and cultural divisions and apply those animosities to the spiritual realm.

    They are completely separate issues. Why isn't Allah the same as God, just seen through a different view? Because people don't want to be associated with Muslims? It's ridiculous.

    I grew up and was told that Christians were monotheistic. But now I find that is not true. Along with Satan (another thread perhaps) it turns out that there plenty of other Gods in existence. Who knew?

    Monotheism implied all cultures shared a common spiritual source. Now that we've reverted back to polytheism, we've taken a step backward in our ability to see others as equals. This is not a good sign for humanity.
     
  7. Marsh

    Marsh Disagreeable By Nature

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    Satan is not a god; he's an angel. Christians who assign too much power to Satan are either unaware of this fact, or would like to bolster Satan's image in order to serve an end.

    From the outside, the issue as to why Christians, Muslims and Jews can't compromise seems simple, but from the inside it really isn't. I believe that Jesus Christ is my saviour; Muslims believe he was just a prophet, and Jews believe that he was a false prophet. How can we possibly find common ground-- the kind where we could get together and worship God fully and completely? The answer is that it is not possible. It's possible for us to get together and socialize, and to talk about spiritual things, but in the end my beliefs are exclusive; there is no room to compromise.

    I don't believe that Mohommed was the last prophet because the only thing coming after Jesus is the kingdom of God.

    I don't believe that there is any reason to wait for the coming of a messiah who I believe has already come.

    And I wouldn't expect any Muslim or Jew to compromise on their beliefs, either.
     
  8. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    and monotheism has done a great job in moving forward in seeing others as equal? NOT!
    In that same way you kind of insulted the polytheists without realizing. Do you know what happens when mono start trying to define this one god they claim? Fangs and bloody daggers appear and the monotheists rip each others faces off.

    You are thinking that everyone has the same god because that is what you were told & I think because you are only supposed to have one god in your worship. I have always viewed polytheism as someone/thing who has more than one god in their worship, not so much a problem that other gods exist. For example if I had the muslim god and one of the christian gods at the same time, then i would be a polytheist. You know mormons have a different god than Allah or the catholic god. Jehova Witness also have a different god than them. The oneness pentecostal christians also have a different god than those I mentioned and they have no problem telling you that the trinity and allah and the hindu god are different gods. You should try it once and take these various gods into different religions & their churches, temples and mosques where they don't belong, and watch how quickly, you get the lizzy borden monotheistic hatchet in your back.

    You might look to something like christian science, they still think everyone has the same god the way you do but I do know they used to not allow roman catholics to become members because they wanted christian science stomped out in the early days.
    Now you know:)
     
  9. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    Now I'm even happier to be atheist.
     
  10. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    That expresses infinite optimism.

    Everything ages including societies. Everything is just like a river. Every river begins cutting a flow pattern into its life which describes it, and then that life flow within runs in more-&-more deeply cut channels. The history of a religion should predict its future, or it ceases to be what it is. Similarly, an old river moves only a little at a time, gradually getting deeper and staying in its place. Everything that ages similarly forms permanent habits as it ages. Same way with electrical paths of neurons in your brain. You are the River Netti-Netti, flowing through the channels that you are, which were made by your life and in which you must live.

    After reading this carefully I have to agree, and it is concise.

    I feel that tendency, however I feel like my environment is beyond my control. It is what it is, as I am planted and grown. Destiny to me seems to be for future generations, so for me it is about whether the troubles we have can be avoided for them. Maybe it is like planting seeds in the right place.


    Well I should try to bring more specifics with dates etc., however the thread has taken a turn elsewhere. It can get unpleasant, too, when you start digging in the muck.
     
  11. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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    Marsh,
    We have received some guidance here and there: :)
    "True worshipers will worship the Father." (John 4:23)
    You can make that as complicated as you want.
     
  12. GlorytoGod

    GlorytoGod There is a River

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    my take is that mohamed was not a prophet of god, when he met that angel in the cave it was not the angel Gabriel but satan or one of satans angels, mohamed himself first suspected it was a demon.

    mohamed was a deceiver, Jesus came with grace and truth mohamed came with lies and deception, there maybe some truth in the teaching of mohamed but the best lies usually do contain some truth.

    so no the muslim Allah is not the same as the Christian God Yahweh or Jehova.

    note this does not mean that there are multiple gods because satan is not a god.

    sorry if this offends anyone, but how I see things.
     
  13. nativeastral

    nativeastral fluffy future

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  14. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    there are christians and chaldeans who disagree.
     
  15. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    It's certainly not the intent.

    But I have to go back to my question Bandit. Your God may feel unique and personal to you, but are you saying that it comes from a unique source as well?

    Why doesn't faith, inspiration and awe come from one source?
     
  16. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    there are people here who try to shove their gods on to others. that to me is equal as shoving their religion onto others. i have no problem with people having different gods than I do. it is only certain monotheists who have that problem.
     
  17. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    Believe me, I don't want you accept anything. You go right on believing what you want.

    But why in your opinion would your God come from a unique source? If a god is infinite, all knowing, omnipotent doesn't that imply a vastness, a oneness with all things? Why don't I feel your unique god?

    Oneness is the most attractive point to monotheism. I value this opportunity to be vast in spirit while occupying my temporary form, to become one with God, one with Life.

    And I'm not saying you don't. I'm just trying to understand a little better.
     
  18. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    I never said my god was any more unique. That is what you put.

    If someone says no and you keep telling them the answer is wrong, then why bother asking the public a yes & no question.
     
  19. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    Conversation is a tool to reach clarity. I personally find it quite useful.

    Sorry to take up your time. :p
     
  20. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    you have not wasted my time. I appreciate someone who can stay on topic but the only clarity i see in your conversation more than once now, is, that everyone has the same god, (i.e.Christian God is the same as the Muslim God) and I say they are not the same. I don't need to clarify any of that.
     

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