God's Plan

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Azure24, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    now that is an easy one ,:)satan made himself into a resister ,just the same as a person may have had a good upbringing from his parents ,but he makes himself into a thief or shoplifter.

    the parents did everything right but he made himself into a thief
     
  2. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    at Job 38:4-7 “the sons of God” who ‘shouted in applause’ when God ‘laid the cornerstone’ of the earth clearly were angelic sons and not humans descended from Adam (as yet not even created).



    4​
    Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth?
    Tell [me], if you do know understanding.
    5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,
    Or who stretched out upon it the measuring line?
    6 Into what have its socket pedestals been sunk down,
    Or who laid its cornerstone,
    7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
    And all the SONS OF GOD began shouting in applause?




    make no mistake about it ,the angels were known as the sons of God

     
  3. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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  4. Azure24

    Azure24 New Member

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    So you're saying satan created resistance?? Nothing can exist apart from God...

    And besides, this is metioned on verse??

    Do you not realise that the tree of knowledge contained both good and evil. Good and evil were both in one fruit...

    To appreciate the good we have to experience the evil...
     
  5. Azure24

    Azure24 New Member

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    What mee? Why have you changed verses all of a sudden?? we were speaking of Gen.6:2...



     
  6. Azure24

    Azure24 New Member

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    mee, I don't know much about Jehovah Witnesses, but I will mention what I know from a book I've read...

    "Jehovah is the only true God. His supremacy has been challenged by Satan, who caused the rebellion in Eden and who puts the integrity of all men to the test. God's primary purpose is the vindication of this supremacy....Christ took power in heaven as King. This happened in 1914 .... Christ is now in his second presence. He will always remain invisible to humans, but his presence is proved by world events since 1914, which fulfill all the predictions of Matt. 24."

    How much of that is scripturally true? Not much.

    God's supremacy has not been challenged by Satan. Satan can do no more than God allows. Have you never noticed in the first chapter of the book of Job how Satan must ASK PERMISSION before touching anyone?

    Satan didn't 'CAUSE' a rebellion in Eden. Eve lusted after the forbidden fruit and sinned. And it was GOD who planted that tree and it was GOD who put it right in the middle of the garden, and it was GOD who made it beautiful and desirable to make one wise, etc., etc. It was NOT SATAN who did these things. Furthermore, the forbidden tree contained the "knowledge of GOOD." If Adam and Eve wanted to know 'good' it was to be found in that very forbidden tree. You see there IS NO knowledge of good without a knowledge of evil. That's why God put them both IN THE SAME TREE!!!

    Satan does not put the "integrity" of all men to the test. Men HAVE NO INTEGRITY!! Men [Adam, humanity, the carnal natural mind] are hostile toward God and His spiritual law. Man is self-centered, lustful, greedy, unholy, unthankful, stubborn, carnal, rebellious, with a heart that is deceitful above all things. Integrity? Man has NONE to be challenged.

    The "primary purpose" of God is NOT the vindication of His name. God doesn't have to prove anything to anyone--especially Satan. God's primary purpose is to have SONS AND DAUGHTERS. To expand His FAMILY. To enlarge His Kingdom. To have children who "know both good and evil" and have come through a life experience that makes them finally DESIRE GOOD ABOVE ALL ELSE. All that ever was, is, or ever will be is for the GLORY OF GOD!

    Jesus did NOT take power and Kingship in 1914. Jesus was given all these things at His resurrection two thousand years ago. After His resurrection, Jesus told His disciple, "Given to Me [then, not 1900 years later] was ALL AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON THE EARTH." (Matt. 28:19. See Revelation for proof that Jesus was ALREADY King of kings and Lord of lords nineteen hundred years ago when John wrote Revelation.

    Christ is NOT now in His second presence. Christ will return in glory and splendor to all His saints.

    Jesus will NOT "always remain invisible to humans." "We are aware that, if He should be manifested, we shall BE LIKE HIM, for we shall SEE Him according as He IS" (I Jn 3:3). We will "SEE HIM." There it is.

    All the prophecies of Matt. 24 have NOT been fulfilled as yet. "Except those days were shorted, no flesh at all would be saved alive" (Matt. 24:22). That has never happened before or after 1914. There has never been a time that unless that period were shortened by certain days, all flesh on earth would have been destroyed. That's nonsense to say such a thing.

    "For then shall be great affliction, such as has not occurred from the beginning of the world till now; neither under any circumstances may be occurring again" (Matt. 24:21). I guarantee you that times were much worse during world war II than during world war I. 1914 was a walk in the park compared to the holocaust and the carnage of the 1940's.

    "Now immediately after the affliction of those days the sun shall be DARKENED and the moon shall not be giving her beams, and the stars shall be FALLING FROM HEAVEN, AND THE POWERS OF THE HEAVENS SHALL BE SHAKEN" (Matt. 24:29). mee, such a thing has never happened in the history of the world! But notice that this MUST happen first BEFORE Jesus returns, "And THEN [not in 1914, but 'then'] shall appear the SIGN OF THE SON OF MANKIND IN HEAVEN...all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall SEE THE SON OF MANKIND COMING on the clouds of heaven with POWER and MUCH GLORY" (Ver. 30).

    Salvation to the Jehovah's Witnesses is not far removed from the "happy hunting grounds" of the American Indian. We will NOT sit around under our fire trees for thousands and thousands of ages sipping cider and singing gospel music, mee. The saints and believers being called NOW in this age, are being prepared to reign WITH CHRIST ON HIS THRONE AS KINGS AND PRIESTS to save the entirety of the universe. For ages upon ages we will reign with Christ. This is a far cry from the expectation of the Jehovah's Witnesses and their eternal paradise in fields of clover.



     
  7. Azure24

    Azure24 New Member

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    mee, you obviously don't realise what your saying...

    How on earth can 'ra' be used for 'evil' and 'ugly' and all the other words you mentioned???

    'ugly' and 'evil' don't even mean the same thing!!! Nor does 'envious' and 'calamitous'...

    and "depending upon the context"
    ?!!!??

    'ra' can and only does mean ONE thing (how can one word have such various unconnected meanings???) and that is and ONLY is evil...Don't agree?? Explain these...

     
  8. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    yes many ridicule Jesus PRESENCE you are not on your own
     
  9. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    Yes we are now well along into bible prophecy, and things are moving along in this time of the end ,and soon GODS KINGDOM will step into the affairs of men DANIEL 2;44

    that heavenly kingdom goverment is now well established ,and it was set up in 1914 in heaven ,inline with bible prophecy and chronology.

    its all happening in the last days
    :)



    but there are ridiculers with their ridicule just as the bible foretold .
    (2Pe 3:3, 4)
    its all happening
     
  10. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    was the book this one THE BIBLE

    PSALM 83;18
    That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
    You alone are the Most High over all the earth.​
     
  11. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    :)VERY TRUE:)and the bible informs us that there will be 144,000 of them and most of them are already up there with JESUS .



    They are known as “a royal priesthood.” (1Pe 2:9)

    They also are described as having “been bought from the earth,” as followers of the Lamb, “bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.” (Re 14:1-4; compare Jas 1:18.)


    These 144,000 bought ones are the ones who endure faithfully, who come to life and rule as kings with Christ, and who “will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.”



    They are shown in the vision of the Bible book of Revelation singing a new song in which they say that Christ bought them with his blood and “made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and [that] they are to rule as kings over the earth.” (Re 5:9, 10)


    the bible and what it teaches is very good
    :)







     
  12. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    when JESUS went back to heaven he didnt recieve his kingship straight away, there was a waiting period , he had to wait until the end of the gentile times ,or the appointed times of the nations .



    he went back to the right hand side of God, but when the waiting period was over he was GIVEN kingship




    The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is:
    “Sit at my right hand
    Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
    psalm 110;1

    Following his resurrection, Jesus ascended to heaven and waited at God’s right hand until 1914 to begin ruling as King.


    During that time, Jesus ruled over his anointed followers, guiding them in their preaching and disciple-making work as well as preparing them to rule with him in his Kingdom.—Matthew 24:14; 28:18-20; Luke 22:28-30.

     
  13. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    very true :) it is THEN when Jesus goes into action with the holy angels that they will see and understand , and they will beat themselves in lamentation, they will know just what they were refusing to see beforehand .

    yes since 1914 Jesus has been present in kingdom power, and seeing with the eye of understanding is what it is all about , but at a future time Jesus will come with the holy angels to judge how we have responded to his PRESENCE so NOW is the day of salvation, because at that time it will be to late, our previous actions will be what
    JESUS JUDGES US ON .


    yes as the bible informs us ,they will be beating themselves in lamentation .
     
  14. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    yes ,1914 certainly was the beginning of the pangs of distress.

    and it just gets worse and worse ,the 2nd world war was even more deaths than the 1st world war . but 1914 was the start of the time of the end it certainly was the beginning of the pangs
     
  15. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    For decades now, Jehovah’s Witnesses have taught that the current fulfillment of the sign proves that a “great tribulation” is yet to come.


    Referring to the tribulation just ahead of us, Jesus said: “Immediately after the tribulation of those days [the destruction of false religion] the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.


    And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”—Matthew 24:29, 30.


    Hence, Jesus himself says that “after the tribulation of those days,” celestial phenomena of some sort will occur. (Compare Joel 2:28-32; 3:15.)


    This will so startle and shock disobedient humans that they will “beat themselves in lamentation.” Many will “become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth.”


    But this will not be the case with true Christians! These ‘will lift their heads up, because their deliverance is getting near.’—Luke 21:25, 26, 28.





     
  16. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    And everyone who has this hope set upon him purifies himself just as that one is pure. 1 john 3;3




    Hope helps keep the Christian in a clean way of life, for he knows that God and Christ, in whom the hope lies, are pure and that he cannot hope to be like God and to receive the reward if he practices uncleanness or unrighteousness. (1Jo 3:2, 3)

    Happy are the pure in heart, since they will see God.

    matthew 5;8


    God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.” john 4;24



    seeing just how they should be in the eyes of jehovah and Jesus, is what it is all about






     
  17. Azure24

    Azure24 New Member

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    Up where exactly??
     
  18. Azure24

    Azure24 New Member

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    Erm...

    "Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." (Matt. 26:18)

    Not "...is to be..." but "...has been..." you know...like...past tense...:rolleyes:


    This verse doesn't prove anything...As it mentions nothing of Kingship...
     
  19. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    in heaven of cause where Jesus is :)
     
  20. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    THE pouring out of holy spirit at Pentecost is evidence that Jesus has arrived back in heaven.

    The vision granted shortly afterward to the disciple Stephen also proves that He has arrived there.


    Just before being stoned for his faithful witnessing, Stephen exclaims: “Look! I behold the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand.”


    While at God’s right hand, Jesus awaits the command from his Father: “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”

    But in the meantime, until he takes action against his enemies, what does Jesus do?

    He rules, or reigns, over his anointed disciples, guiding them in their preaching activity and preparing them to become, by resurrection, associate kings with him in his Father’s Kingdom.



    Jesus Himself had been anointed at His baptism with the Holy Spirit and power, so yes he did have aurthority but his kingship wasnt until 1914
     

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