Sum up your religious belief

samabudhi

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What I meant was, if you're going to be labeling his actions and intentions good and bad, then you need to do it from a consistent point of view, i.e., either from his point of view, or from our point of view; not, his actions from our point of view and his intentions from his.
 

Avinash

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Funny how the tantric Hitler always somehow manages to sneak himself into different threads. :D
 

Quesocoatl

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Avinash said:
Funny how the tantric Hitler always somehow manages to sneak himself into different threads. :D
Ah, well.. you know. He's still alive. Down in Argentina sipping Mai Tais and whittling scale replica cowboy boots out of soap.

In any case, I don't think we are supposed to forget the Holocaust so soon. (It hasn't even been a hundred years.) A lot to be learned from that war...by everyone...on every subject.
 

Quesocoatl

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samabudhi said:
What I meant was, if you're going to be labeling his actions and intentions good and bad, then you need to do it from a consistent point of view, i.e., either from his point of view, or from our point of view; not, his actions from our point of view and his intentions from his.
That's exactly what Hitler pushed.


I think ..harmony... would be the key in keeping the collective choir awake and cracking wine glasses. Harmony with the consciences that we were all born with. Truth has a harmonic resonance, a math all of its own, regardless of the general concensus.

On a wide scale, offense and defense are nearly indistiguishable from one another. Truth can be made into lies and vice versa ..a lie, ultimately, being.. a "breech of contract" of sorts.

Hitler's actions were, basically, a rebuttal against the infiltration of the molding and belligerent Jewish ethics that were creeping into the rigid sense of democracy Germany has typically been noted for brandishing. On his terms, anyway. To get the real truth you have to look at both sides.

Non-Jewish German kids were getting rocks chucked at them on the way to school.. in their own streets.

And, at the risk of sounding anti-semetic -- God-forbid and which I am not -- the armies of Judah have a history of genocide and ritual slaughter that is unparralelled by both Roman conquest and The Third Reich put together. The only difference being that Hitler's industrial-age jihad is tangible to us: we have pictures. We know old people that have numbers tattooed on their arms.

The thing to remember is that Hitler....was not blonde-haired and blue-eyed. He was said to be of Jewish descent. He wore the moustache of an English silent film comedian who was born 2 days apart from his own birthday. He loved Charlie Chaplin and emulated his style.

A lot of that "historic" footage...was shot in America. Not Germany. And
I'm told the war could have ended years earlier had Churchill given sanction and open ear to Rudolf Hess instead of locking him up.

Propaganda....is dangerous. Right and wrong, very subjective and relative concepts.

"Love God and love your neighbor as yourself."
~Jesus of Nazareth


"Love is the Law. Love under will."
~Aleister Crowley
 

tufty68

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Brian, I must whole-heartedly disagree with this thought. It is our core beliefs that determine and guide our actions. Even lack of belief is a belief in and of itself. It is chaotic, and therefore leads to an unpredictability in life. Strong core beliefs by comaprison guide our actions, and keep us on a straight course.
 

samabudhi

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tufty68 said:
Brian, I must whole-heartedly disagree with this thought. It is our core beliefs that determine and guide our actions. Even lack of belief is a belief in and of itself. It is chaotic, and therefore leads to an unpredictability in life. Strong core beliefs by comaprison guide our actions, and keep us on a straight course.
...or mislead us further and faster.

Chuang Tzu said:
There has been such a thing as letting mankind alone and tolerance; there has never been such a thing as governing mankind. Letting alone Springs from the fear lest men's natural dispositions be perverted and tolerance springs from the fear lest their character be corrupted. But if their natural dispositions be not perverted, nor their character corrupted, what need is there left for government?

Of old, when Yao governed the empire, he made the people live happily; consequently the people struggled to be happy and became restless. When Chieh governed the empire he made the people live miserably; consequently the people regarded life as a burden and were discontented. Restlessness and discontent are subversive of virtue; and without virtue there has never been such a thing as stability.

Tao Te Ching said:
Use fairness in governing the state.
Use surprise tactics in war.
Be unconcerned and you will have the world.
How do I know it is like this?
Because:
The more regulations there are,
The poorer people become.
The more people own lethal weapons,
The more darkened are the country and clans.
The more clever the people are,
The more extraordinary actions they take.
The more picky the laws are,
The more thieves and gangsters there are.

Therefore the sages say:
"I do not force my way and the people transform themselves.
I enjoy my serenity and the people correct themselves.
I do not interfere and the people enrich themselves.

I have no desires

And the people find their original mind.
 

Quesocoatl

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tufty68 said:
Brian, I must whole-heartedly disagree with this thought. It is our core beliefs that determine and guide our actions. Even lack of belief is a belief in and of itself. It is chaotic, and therefore leads to an unpredictability in life. Strong core beliefs by comaprison guide our actions, and keep us on a straight course.


colonel

Noun:
1. A commissioned military officer in the United States Army or Air Force or Marines who ranks above a lieutenant colonel and below a brigadier general

kernel

Noun:

1. The inner and usually edible part of a seed or grain or nut or fruit stone
2. A single whole grain of a cereal
3. The choicest or most essential or most vital part of some idea or experience
 

louis

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religious belief ?

if i had to sum up my religious belifes, there are several things that i could say... so here's how i'd say it:

From Louis....
I have always considered myself to be free of ANY
religious beliefs, but I suppose that, in a way, is also a form of belief....
In brief, I think of religion as an invention of the human
mind and maybe nothing more -
( We are all limited in our ability to observe and learn
about the world around us - and when we reach that
limit, the mind begins to speculate and INVENT things
that MIGHT exist beyond that limit. )
And after observing my own reactions to things I've
read in this forum, I must admit I'm just as stubbornly
attached to that concept as any fundamentalist.
No offense meant - I could also be just as wrong as
any fundamentalist....
 

Abogado del Diablo

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I said:
Who says Hitler didn't have good intentions? It is only because there is a relative position that says that he didn't that this is said. Certainly about 65 years ago many people thought he had good intentions. Their relative versus ours. As "we won", our relative position is the opinion that triumphs. If Hitler had won, other people would be lauding a different relative position - that of Hitler's good intentions as a shining example to all.
In the recent documentary "The Fog of War" former U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara talks at length about his involvement in Gen. Curtis LeMay's decision to firebomb Japan that including incendiary bombing of Tokyo that killed nearly 100,000 people in a single night. According to McNamara, LeMay told him that had the U.S. lost the war he and LeMay would have been tried as war criminals. McNamara then asks: "Why is it only a war crime if you lose?"
 

Mus Zibii

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Errol Morris is a brilliant documentary-guy. Michael Moore should cut his own tongue out and study at the temple of Morris.
 

iBrian

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Indeed, the victors try the losers and claim moral superiority, all in a very relative manner.
 

Abogado del Diablo

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Vajradhara said:
if i had to sum up my religious belifes, there are several things that i could say... so here's how i'd say it:


have you eaten your rice gruel today? good, now go and wash your bowl.
The word "belief" doesn't mean anything to me, but I would sum up the meaning of my spirituality with:

"Know thyself."

Abogado del Diablo
 

mandrill

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Hmmm ... this is a tough one because I tend to collect quotes .. so many good ones that speak to me.

I also don't have a religious 'belief' - I have a lifestyle, a course I try to follow based, in part, on personal experiences that have convinced me it is a valid course and, in no less part, what is aesthetically pleasing to me .. in my neverending quest to raise my life to an art form.

But .. I guess these might come closest to what I embrace in my daily life:

"The art of a warrior is to balance the terror of being a man with the wonder of being a man"

"The basic difference between an ordinary man and a warrior is that a warrior takes everything as a challenge, while an ordinary man takes everything as a blessing or as a curse."

"For an average man, the world is weird because if he's not bored with it, he's at odds with it. For a warrior, the world is weird because it is stupendous, awesome, mysterious, unfathomable. A warrior must assume responsibility for being here in this marvelous world, in this marvelous time."

And, of course, there's the ever-classic:

"To fashion stars out of dog dung, that is the Great Work" :)
 

ISFP

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let us go on our way with piety and love
let us always be mindful

when you ask to see Truth, what can i show you but where it is we now sit?

i make an effort to realize these ideals in everday life- being loving towards others, and realizing every moment as potentially meaningful or sacred. even 'simple' things like this are a challenge sometimes, but often simply making the effort to be mindful of them is important.
 

KnightoftheRose

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Love, Honor, and the Courage to stand by your Ideals.

Defend the meek, Stand for Righteousness, and Remain Strong in the Face of Adversity.

And

Just as it is the wave which wears down the stone, it is love which wears down hate.



Heh, maybe these aren't particularly deep, but they appeal to me because I'm into chivalry...(I think I read one too many fairy tales in my childhood :rolleyes:...)
 
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Change, change, and evolve!

A Process Deist paraphrase of John Shelby Spong: Live fully, love wastefully, and enhance becoming.
 

Quahom1

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Vajradhara said:
Namaste all,

on another forum, this topic was introduced and produced a fairly typical response. as this forum is more diverse, i was curious how it would work here.

i'll go first.


if i had to sum up my religious belifes, there are several things that i could say... so here's how i'd say it:


have you eaten your rice gruel today? good, now go and wash your bowl.
Sit in the back pew, you get the best view. Fight hard, love even harder.

And never let a stranger walk away with an empty hand, stomach or empty heart...Else you'll burn for it, from the second the opportunity is lost.

Every life is more precious than your own. And your life is pretty special. Imagine that!?

v/r

Q
 
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