juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Just a few of several times this subject of surrender to genetic predisposition has come up:
In short, our genes are not the overriding factor when it comes to behavior.
Who are you going to believe? Talk on the street is cheap. I got the word straight from the director of the Human Genome Mapping Project. He says this kind of thinking is not correct, people direct their own actions by free-will. We CHOOSE how to behave, regardless of any predisposition.
'Nuf said on my part.
Kindest Regards, all!
Yesterday, I stumbled on an interesting line of genetic science I had not heard of before. Did a little research today, haven't gone through everything I printed out yet. Seems this train of thought has been around since about 2001, and has developed a bit of a following in certain scientific circles (with at least one website and magazine devoted to it).
Seems the concept is rather like the "nurture" side of the nature vs. nuture debate, amped with steroids. Seems to me this opens a lot of moral questions unto itself, not least a rehash of the tired old Social Darwinism train of thought. Afterall, if you are not properly nourished, because of poverty or whatever, then you are substandard, compared with where you could have been had circumstances been different. Remarkably, many of these "influences" are hereditary without being genetic. That is, the genome is not the complete story of what "makes" us.
One thought that crossed my mind, as vindication for my position in a much earlier discussion, is that even if a "gay" gene does exist (which has yet to be proven), it is environmental circumstances ("nurture") that would trigger or suppress that gene. Even without a "gay gene," it would still be environmental influences that would promote or discourage such ... well ... behavior. And, presuming such could be transmitted to progeny (which illustrates my poor choice of example), the behavior and bodily characteristics would be transmitted to future generations, *without* modification to the genome itself.
Is anybody familiar with this enough to care to discuss it, particularly the ethical considerations?
I just came from Dr. Collins' lecture, had a blast to say the least. (simple toys for simple minds; easily amused; yeah, I know) Even stood in line at the end to shake his hand and ask a question. Since it seems a common comment in discussions involving genetics and behavioral implications, I asked Dr. Collins outright what he felt was the role of genetics in behavior.
His response was that as of now we don't know much. He pointed to a few studies; one concerning the tendency of some males to stray; another concerning those who thrive on risk as opposed to those who are more risk averse; and to a questionable study about the tendency to religion, what he noted was called the "G-d gene" by Time magazine. He also noted that we will probably know a great deal more in another five years or so.
I pointed out that it was a common argument by some that our genes tend to dictate our behavior, such that we cannot help what we do. He replied that was simply not so, and that free will (his choice of term) holds a great deal of influence over our behavior.
I'm still giddy, walking down the hall here about three feet off the ground, getting to meet this man. I even got his autograph...![]()
I hope you won't mind Tao, but I would like to post a few notes I took from Dr. Collins' lecture, and a few websites he pointed to for future reference. That way we all have access to the same body of information, as close to the trenches as we could ask for.
First up:
genome.gov | A Catalog of Published Genome-Wide Association Studies
I think you will find this is a thorough resource noting a long list of genes that have been linked to mostly disease processes, although I did see some hereditary stuff (hair color, height) listed as well.
NIH Roadmap - Recent Research Advances
This is a lengthy list of the researches going on in the field related to human health. I linked to the "research advances" page rather than the home page.
genome.gov | NHGRI Event Webcasts
I found this searching for a transcript of Dr. Collins' lecture. Looks like a comprehensive timeline of breakthroughs in genomics.
Dr. Collins' lecture is titled: Genomics, Medicine and Society
Some notes I took away from the lecture:
DNA sequencing has made vast improvements...Dr. Collins noted that a comprehensive breakdown of a single genome costs in excess of a million dollars US until recently, and at present I think the figure was something like 70 thousand US dollars. In the foreseeable future there is equipment coming on line expected to reduced the cost to 5 thousand US dollars, with the hope that soon the cost can be reduced to 1 thousand dollars at which point it could feasibly become a diagnostic tool.
An important point he brought up was the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2007-2008:
genome.gov | Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2008
Important because it curtails what limits the business sector can place on revealed genetic information. Worth taking a look at if you hadn't considered the impact of having your genetic code deciphered, and how it would apply to things like life and health insurance and employment.
Some buzz words I heard and haven't had time to research:
-microbiome (this may be up your alley, Tao, with the virus and phage stuff)
-Knockout mouse
-mammalian gene sequence
-HAPMAP project
-Genotype Tissue Expression Resource (GTEx)
-NIH Roadmap Small Molecule Initiative
Some other brief notes:
-The Human mutation rate is greater than expected
-There is on the order of *20* thousand genes (less than the 50k I heard as little as a few years ago)
-GWAS (Genome-Wide Association Studies) does *not* explain heritability, 1.3-1.4% variations are normal
-GWAS does point to novel drug targets, which lends itself to personalized medicine in the future
There's my report from my field trip, Enjoy!
Kindest Regards, Jaiket!
OK, given the terms of engagement of debate, or even rhetorical discussion, one can in theory argue anything about anything, and as long as it can be made to sound good somebody somewhere is gonna bite and take that argument to be a statement of fact. There are usually two sides to a coin, and there are frequently even more sides to an argument. People typically key in on those things that agree with their preconceptions and overlook or ignore those things that do not agree with their preconceptions.
Which is my longwinded way of saying..."why must I automatically be presumed to take the position expected by the question?"
I remember making a comment in a discussion with a social group I once belonged to (and dearly miss) very much in agreement with Dr. Collins statements. Of course, I made one significant blunder, I included the observation of race as well (in consideration of narrowing the focus to the US alone). And for my blunder I was immediately trounced on soundly by all of the other members present. Needless to say, I am more than a little skittish to broach the subject again.
If we were to remove the race factor from the equation by expanding our representative sample to other cultures, it still seems accurate that the majority of prisons are populated by the male gender.
Perhaps, but why are males the predominant gender incarcerated? Is it because males traditionally are the ones that strive for power are challenge authority? Is it because females are more concerned (or occupied) with child rearing and family issues? Is it because the female gender is still subconsciously viewed as a sexual prize by males (especially those in authority)? Do those in positions of authority tend to treat the female gender with more leniency or mercy? Are males naturally inclined to cross the boundaries of what is socially acceptable? What role does socio-economic status play? Are females more "wise and intelligent" than to challenge the social boundaries?
I think it is safe and fair to state that females are capable of committing essentially the same "crimes" that males do, it just seems statistically that they do not cross that boundary with the same frequency, or cross the boundary with the same intensity, as males tend to. But that's just my unscientific observation...
I don't know. I think that is what Dr. Collins was getting at: "we don't understand the connection in terms of the biological pathways." All we can state with any certainty is that the male gender does in fact comprise the majority of those incarcerated.
In short, our genes are not the overriding factor when it comes to behavior.
Who are you going to believe? Talk on the street is cheap. I got the word straight from the director of the Human Genome Mapping Project. He says this kind of thinking is not correct, people direct their own actions by free-will. We CHOOSE how to behave, regardless of any predisposition.
'Nuf said on my part.