Ridiculous devotion?

brian

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Basically, a number of people in the Philipines have themselves ritually crucified, nails and all, every Easter.

It's not updated on the BBC website for this year, so I have to use last year's report.

In pictures: Philippines crucifixions

Anyone else think this is just a little extreme?
 

louis

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crucifictions

Basically, a number of people in the Philipines have themselves ritually crucified, nails and all, every Easter.

Anyone else think this is just a little extreme?

From Louis...
Of course I think it's extreme... but they're only "acting out"
in a physical way what they've already done in a psychological
way. They're demonstrating their willingness to sacrifice their
physical bodies the same way they sacrificed their individual
viewpints by "buying into" the church's official viewpoint.
 

Vajradhara

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brian said:
Basically, a number of people in the Philipines have themselves ritually crucified, nails and all, every Easter.

It's not updated on the BBC website for this year, so I have to use last year's report.

In pictures: Philippines crucifixions

Anyone else think this is just a little extreme?
Namaste brian,

thank you for the post.

i've been told that jumping out of perfectly good airplanes is "a little extreme" so i'm not really in a position to say... since i happen to enjoy jumping out of those perfectly good airplanes :)

perhaps... people respond as they are able.. some more capable than others...
 

iBrian

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Well, if Vaj likes heights, okie needs his roof doing in a few years... ;)
 

Vajradhara

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I said:
Well, if Vaj likes heights, okie needs his roof doing in a few years... ;)
that's not quite high enough though ;)

actually... and this may seem very odd... i've got a bit of a problem with heights.. which is why parachuting was such a great therapy for me... i'm pretty much all about confronting psychological fears and trying to overcome them with any skillful means.
 

Avinash

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Vajradhara said:
i'm pretty much all about confronting psychological fears and trying to overcome them with any skillful means.

hmm, very tantric! :D
 

Mus Zibii

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brian said:
Basically, a number of people in the Philipines have themselves ritually crucified, nails and all, every Easter.

It's not updated on the BBC website for this year, so I have to use last year's report.

In pictures: Philippines crucifixions

Anyone else think this is just a little extreme?
Actually, the first time I saw that (on TV) I thought they were nuts, and while I won't say that they make perfect sense and don't step over the bounds of lunacy, I have come to understand it better. Without even commenting on how harsh life in the Phillipines might color their brand of Christianity, the faith in itself almost invites a preoccupation with a 'cleansing suffering'. And though I'd never go so far as to act out a watered down execution, the sensations have played themselves out in my head.
 

Avinash

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brian said:
Basically, a number of people in the Philipines have themselves ritually crucified, nails and all, every Easter.

It's not updated on the BBC website for this year, so I have to use last year's report.

In pictures: Philippines crucifixions

Anyone else think this is just a little extreme?

Namaskar,

The real surrender to God or your higher Self is an internal surrender of the ego. This can be done through spiritual sadhana and may be strengthened through external selfless service.

No amount of self-inflicted pain can speed up this surrender, unless that pain is of benefit to others and done with a selfless attitude. So extensive fasting, hanging yourself on flesh-hooks (India), standing on one leg for five years, whipping yourself (Irak/Iran) or having yourself crucified have nothing to do with devotion. But they may make for an attractive show and could attract tourists. :)
 

samabudhi

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Avinash said:
No amount of self-inflicted pain can speed up this surrender, unless that pain is of benefit to others and done with a selfless attitude. So extensive fasting, hanging yourself on flesh-hooks (India), standing on one leg for five years, whipping yourself (Irak/Iran) or having yourself crucified have nothing to do with devotion. But they may make for an attractive show and could attract tourists. :)
Fascinating. Intense torture and pain can lead to a dissociation from experience. This is ego-death, just like any traumatic event would precipitate. The problem is that it is not earned through intention and so the effects are not evolutionary. The state is dissolved as soon as homeostasis sets in. It's more of a biological thing and there is less control over it.

The point is to release oneself from the clutches of the ego through the intention of being selfless. A slower form of ego dissolution, but a gradual, controlled and more powerful one.

I'm sure the participants do get some spiritual reward from these practises, but really, is it worth the price? :confused:
 

Mus Zibii

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I saw an interview with a Canadian who had been tortured in Saudi Arabia and was forced to confess to terrorist (so that the government could claim that the terrorists were westerning faking Islamic terror, etc) acts. He said at one point something that made me think of the physical in regards to the mental and spiritually in a totally different way. He said, Orwell was wrong. They can torture you, they can make you say things that you know are untrue, but they cannot reach the part of you where truth is hidden.

I think the various forms of self abuse (including the socially accepted forms) are taken subconsciously as an affirmation of that. Its like a very blunt way of developing a spiritual muscle that would otherwise go unstrained through faith and thought.
 

Avinash

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Mus Zibii said:
I think the various forms of self abuse (including the socially accepted forms) are taken subconsciously as an affirmation of that. Its like a very blunt way of developing a spiritual muscle that would otherwise go unstrained through faith and thought.

Namaskar,

That may be so, but similar hardships may automatically come to you if you decide to sacrifice your personal comforts and pleasures for a great positive public cause. If you confront your fears and self-doubt and go ahead, irrespective of the opposition that you encounter, then that will develop your spiritual muscle much better than with self abuse.
 

Mus Zibii

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Great, now I have a potato stuck in my...

But yeah, you make a good point. I just keep thinking back to the less modern eras where a long life with time enough to meditate wasn't an option.
 

Quesocoatl

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Mus Zibii said:
Great, now I have a potato stuck in my...

But yeah, you make a good point. I just keep thinking back to the less modern eras where a long life with time enough to meditate wasn't an option.
I, personally, try to make every single breath of the day a meditation.

If I attempt to follow the advice of the Gurus I've come into contact with, I tend to find myself sleeping a lot. (The forefront of Asian humor, to be sure.)

And...well.....we got to meditate, right? Practically manditory after the 3rd Reich, it would seem.

So...I just....nevermind.

Peace.

People like me aren't supposed to have computers and high-speed internet access.:)
 

Vajradhara

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Mus Zibii said:
Great, now I have a potato stuck in my...

But yeah, you make a good point. I just keep thinking back to the less modern eras where a long life with time enough to meditate wasn't an option.
Namaste Mus Zibii,

well.. .this would have to be pretty far back.. as by about 4000 B.C.E in India, the civilization had advanced enough that there were large monastaries and groups of monks and nuns that were living off of alms.

of course... as i like to describe my religious praxis...

chop wood, carry water.

it is in the mundane, day to day chores of life that we have the chance to awaken, in my view, not by sitting in seclusion.
 

Mus Zibii

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Vajradhara said:
Namaste Mus Zibii,

well.. .this would have to be pretty far back.. as by about 4000 B.C.E in India, the civilization had advanced enough that there were large monastaries and groups of monks and nuns that were living off of alms.

of course... as i like to describe my religious praxis...

chop wood, carry water.

it is in the mundane, day to day chores of life that we have the chance to awaken, in my view, not by sitting in seclusion.
You've destroyed my theory, isn't that enough! LOL But yeah, you're right.
 
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