Why some hate the Jewish people?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by Amica, Jul 3, 2009.

  1. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok this is why I say this everytime...

    I am speaking as a bible-believing Christian that believes the bible is God-breathed and infalliable. I am not speaking for any other Christian or Jew.

    Sorry CZ..

    If I could make it as a signature I would..
     
  2. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    0

    yay! me too!! God IS Love and He IS Good and we are commanded to LOVE each other as Jesus has loved us. I love it!
     
  3. shawn

    shawn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    0
    :eek: I am sorry to hear that.
    I have heard that the condition is contagious as well.

    sorry, just kidding around.
    I am sure you are literally a very nice person.
     
  4. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    0
    lol contagious... very true.. Scared much? :)
     
  5. shawn

    shawn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nope, I am immune as I have already had that illness and have quite recovered from it now.;)
     
  6. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    0
    See once you really get it.. you cant get rid of it. I think you just think you had it. ;)
     
  7. shawn

    shawn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nope, I had it really bad.
    Went to bible college, did street ministry, was a youth pastor in the Baptist church I was part of, etc.
    Took about 10 years to get past all that.
    Jesus is a placebo.
     
  8. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    0
    none of that matters... you can work and work and work and it have nothing to do with Jesus Christ.

    I still say you never had it.

    You cant lose your salvation but you also cannot deny Jesus and be truly saved.


    my disclaimer
    "I am speaking as a bible-believing Christian that believes the bible is God-breathed and infalliable. I am not speaking for any other Christian or Jew."
     
  9. shawn

    shawn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is very judgmental of you.:eek:
    I was a real true believer, but several eye-opening experiences caused me to realize the mistakes which are contained in christianity.
    for example:
    You don't need to be saved as you are not d@mned.
     
  10. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    0
    We are called to be fruit inspecters... Judge not lest ye be judged the word judged used in the greek means judging to condemn... Im not judging to condemn.. but I am certainly judging to identify..its all in the greek my friend.

    Im sure you are familiar with the parable of the sower if you went to bible college... Just in case here it is...


    this is why I say what I say about your not getting it.
     
  11. shawn

    shawn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh I get it all right.
    I see you are still wandering around in the bushes however.
     
  12. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    0
    sorry that went way over my head.. I think it was a veiled insult. Thats ok though.. I want you to know that Ive said a prayer for you and thats the most important thing. We are to pray about everything.. and I do.

    Im sleepy I have to go now.. Have a good night Shawn. :)
     
  13. shawn

    shawn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not an insult, I try to avoid being that way,.... just an observation is all.
    g'nite.
     
  14. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,399
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Nativeastral, I do not think one needs to be an expert on Middle East history or policy to have an opinion. I am not an expert either, but some issues are obvious. No, I would not like to live in Gaza or the West Bank or Golan. These are war zones.

    During the past 60 years, the Israeli's have been in power in Israel, and there are cases which can be easily cited where they have abused that power. This is really no surprise, it is the history of the Middle East and the history of humanity. I do not approve of it. But lets consider the past 2,000 years. I think we can say the opposite was true during that time. The Jews were oppressed and nearly killed off or exiled. So shouldn't we have compassion for both sides ?

    That is right. Many blame Britain for the Balfour, I do not know your opinion about that ? But I personally think, eventhough there were many problems as a result of Balfour, that it was a positive step. It enabled the ultimate formation of Israel.


    I think you are being quite moderate in this paragraph, and I agree.

    As I have said on several posts, I think both sides have made mistakes and need to look critically at their positions. It is not a simple problem of one side is wrong and the other right.

    In fact, with the rise of Iran on the international scene, they are going to be playing an important role in future Middle East politics. I hope a consensus of moderates will take place to prevent future wars and unnecessary bloodshed.
     
  15. nativeastral

    nativeastral fluffy future

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,525
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes l hope too that compassion and moderation will prevail in the Middle east and Iran will be a major factor, l just hope integrity will be shown and acted upon by all sides, though forgiveness doesn't seem to be so easy even amongst the religious unfortunately. Looking out info on Gaza to remind me of the situation brought to the fore the fact that the Palestinian population will outnumber Israelis soon and within Israel itself there has been problems with Neo Nazis from Russia [who increased the population by 20%] which seems rather crazy no?
     
  16. bananabrain

    bananabrain awkward squadnik

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,749
    Likes Received:
    2
    well, you are entitled to whatever view of history you like, but i will nonetheless point out that the opinion that the jews are to blame for our own historical misfortunes is a view shared only by those with the most simplistic view of sin and punishment and those who simply dislike jews and are interested in rationalising their prejudice. you, for example, seem to think that jewish dietary laws are a reason for racism. i hope this is not the case.

    firstly, *everyone* stuck together in roman society, not just us. i don't notice you having a go at the greeks or the egpytians or the britons or the gauls. secondly, roman society was a highly unpleasant, violent, immoral place and frankly i don't think you'd have wanted to mix with them either. thirdly, we had our own country back then, so if living there is what you mean by sticking together, again, the same could be said of the other nations i mentioned above. not only that, but there was also a pretty pervasive class system. and fourthly, you seemed anxious to bring in "now", so i hardly think i can be blamed for pointing out the broadness of your dislike.

    that is not in dispute. what you appear to be saying, however, is that we sought this separation (and, by direct implication continue to do so) from mediaeval christian and islamic society because of our own prejudices and thereby made ourselves unpopular. this is utter bilge. if you are not saying that, then please make it clear, but i fail to see how i could be misunderstanding you.

    i am not disputing that. the question is whether they deserve it or not, or whether they deserve quite as much. that is a complex issue which raises enormous passions and not one which we can discuss in this kind of manner, particularly when your starting point appears to be "they are asking for it".

    that would have only happened if the jewish people had been united, not fragmented as it was and is. call me mr cynical, but i think it is a bit much to expect an ideal society to emerge from persecuted refugees, genocide survivors, euro-chauvinist socialist utopians, capitalist entrepreneurs, atheists and the ultra-religious. and that is *without* the conflict situation! you sound like you're blaming the israelis for not being able to overcome the weight of their history whilst refusing to acknowledge the difficulties that they have faced from the beginning. and, more to the point, i think you could make the exact same point about the french, american and indeed cuban and chinese revolutions!

    that was *bathos*. remember, we talked about that?

    because we were talking about mediaeval europe. to bring israel into it is pure whataboutery.

    nope. there are more in america.

    now, whilst i am sad to concede that support for democracy and human rights falls far below what i would expect, there is still a significant part of the population that still strongly supports these things. you sound like you're suggesting that all israelis hate palestinians and nothing could be further from the truth.

    what makes you think you can use that sort of tone on this website? moderate yourself or you will get moderated.

    i am trying to address what i saw as frankly quite prejudiced comments about jews in the middle ages, which are now being justified by reference to modern israel, as if that's relevant. sad to say, some people will hide behind the situation in the middle east to cloak what are otherwise revealed to be unacceptable attitudes. want to have a go at jews? no problem, as long as you link it to israel, you can say what you like. well, if i think that might be happening, i'm going to call it. and you know, in the last six months, i've been right about it several times. look at this:

    yes, because everyone knows that jews have lots of money, right? we'll just bail when the going gets tough, right? sheesh. can you even hear yourself?

    look, i am not trying to justify everything that went on but it didn't happen in a vacuum. could you live in sderot? is that right? there are decades of conflict here and this is simply the latest in a long series of bad calls leading to bloodshed.

    the word is "aliyah" and financial support for it has been a prime concern of israel since before its inception - but aliyah was NOT designed to be used as a tool for displacing local populations. it is the settlement enterprise that has coopted it as it has coopted so many parts of the israeli body politic - but i hope and pray that this will soon come to an end. it is also interesting that you say "return to their homeland" but then call the palestinians "local indigenous" - what of the jews? are we not indigenous to the region? what about the more than 50% of the israeli population that is not from europe, but from the islamic world? are they "indigenous"? go and look at palestinian genetics and arabic dialect - you will find that the dividing line between us and them is pretty slim.

    yes - and i hope you are including russia and china in that, you seem to recognise that it will also be necessary to take account of the regional superpowers of saudi arabia, egypt and iran.

    the entire russian aliyah was not made up of neo-nazis, nativeastral. there were a couple of kids involved and the universal reaction was "how stupid would you have to be to do something like that in a country full of jews?". the "demographic timebomb" you mention (as it is referred to by some right-wing israelis) was the cause of sharon and others encouraging this aliyah - although, truth be told, russian jewry had been trying to get the hell out for decades. now, the thing is about the russians is that they are, well, quite russian in their attitudes - not at all religious, pretty racist and with the typical russian attitude to human rights ("is load of rubbish for pantywaist european that never have to queue for ticket for tractor factory open day"), which has given the right wing a shot in the arm as sharon intended. the thing is, it has kind of backfired on the settlement enterprise - not because the russians are more peaceloving, they're not - but because they aren't religious and therefore won't bend over backwards to accommodate the religious fanatics that run the settler lobby. there is far more likelihood for them to compromise than the "national-religious" camp. i despise lieberman - i think he's a corrupt, racist scumbag. however, he is far more likely to make a deal than the likes of effi eitam or benny begin would be.

    there, you see - i've been sucked into talking about the peace process when we were really talking about something entirely different. bloody hellfire.

    b'shalom

    bananabrain
     
  17. nativeastral

    nativeastral fluffy future

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,525
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are there are any threads on the development and intentions of zionism here?
     
  18. nativeastral

    nativeastral fluffy future

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,525
    Likes Received:
    0
    BB l have been reading up on the history of zionism at this site

    Zionism and the Creation of Israel - Definition and History

    The real self-hating Jews: the paradoxical tragedy of extremists- Zionism-Israel Web Log

    ..which reminds me of the long history previous to WWll which tends to be the starting point for the more naive [inc me].

    In any case my suggestions on why did not include the obvious root...that Judaism did not accept either of the 'prophets' of Christianity and Islam and this was why, in the main, they were hated, because integration was therefore impossible in societies where religion is society and society is religion and why separation was inevitable and why that is seen [aka mob psychology] as anomalous and anti the majority. Of course it was fuelled by the story of Jesus' demise and the story of the betrayal of the Jews at Medina, and as l intimated also by the sacred practices observed as well...

    To be more balanced and for you not to think that l have no understanding at all of the situation l can see why Israel does not want Muslims in their midst, no minaret wailing 5 times a day, and no paranoia maybe that your neighbour is harbouring a terrorist; and l acknowledge the stubborness of the Palestinians in not agreeing early on suggested partitions, but if it was the other way round l'm sure the Jews would not have given way either [this was influenced by the rise of Arab nationalism].

    l think that the reason there has been more sympathy for the Palestinians is the heavy handed military Israeli treatment and obvious financial support from the West. For me it looks like the abused becomed the abuser, and we can say oh well thats the history of humanity and go on about how f### up it all is, but a solution would relieve the whole world not just the crescent, infertile becoming again fertile.
     
  19. Adi

    Adi Village Idiot

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Probably, I would guess, for the same reasons that they hate Nazis and similar organizations -- one group claiming they are an elite among the rest and backing it up with militant and oppressive strategies. (chosen people... master race etc.)

    If one were to look a bit closer at the metaphoric possibilities, of not only Judaism but of all religions, one might see that the message is, ultimately, universal. This is also a form of monotheism.

    It's when this universality ceases to exist that the precursors of so-called holy wars begin to gurgle... along with those of new religions.


     
  20. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,399
    Likes Received:
    0
    Adi, some how your style is reminscent to me of another, past, poster (or perhaps several, now that I think about it).

    It is wonderful that you describe yourself as the village idiot. :rolleyes:

    I do like your avatar though. Are those antlers on your head ? Are you a reindeer ? Or a little moose ? :rolleyes:
     

Share This Page