Obama and Health Care

Avi

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Another major issue for the next decade, and Obama shows inspiring leadership again:

Obama shifts focus in health care debate

And in a classic finish to this story:

The president showed a flash of humor in an otherwise serious evening when asked about Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., an African American scholar who was arrested for breaking into his home after he lost his keys.

Obama said if he were seen trying to break into the White House, "I'd probably be shot."
 
Obama blew it on that Gates discussion....he should have ended with "I don't know all the facts in the case and probably shouldn't comment" This has derailed his focus on health care.

The most salient point is...you are paying for it now in taxes thru free emergency room treatment to the indigent and uninsured...this is absolutely the most expensive and worst way to provide health care...
 
The mayor of Cambridge is handling the Prof Gates issue far better, waiting for the facts to come in, holding off on an official statement, bringing the involved parties together to discuss their differing perspectives. I don't think Obama deserves any praise for his comments.

Some coverage from the major local paper, articles representing both sides of the story:

Cambridge police chief backs sergeant, but promises review of Gates arrest - The Boston Globe

Some successful blacks find Gates’s episode all too familiar - The Boston Globe

Residents deplore, hail remarks by Obama - The Boston Globe

I would never argue that as a nation we've gotten beyond racial prejudices, but it doesn't seem so clear to me that in this particular case we can say clearly that one party was at fault and the other, blameless. I don't want to see a good man crucified for political reasons. By all reports from those who know him, the officer that arrested gates is an exemplary member of the Cambridge police.
 
I agree that Obama should have been silent until knowing all the facts, but I also understand his reaction as a friend. It's just that he didn't use his better judgment about responding as a President and not someone's friend.

As for health care, what Wil said. Having both received care in the ER/Urgent Care as an uninsured person, and having volunteered in a Trauma Level 1 ER and watching how many of our patients were uninsured... it is the worst possible system of universal health care imaginable. That is what people often don't see- we're already paying for universal health care. We're just doing it in an ineffective and extremely expensive way.

I wish they'd roll in Dental, by the way. Dental is exceptionally expensive under almost all plans, and I find it ridiculous that your teeth are somehow considered not part of the rest of your health, when research clearly shows otherwise.

Here's an interesting thing I heard on NPR about an organization providing free health care as they do in the third world (at temporary clinics during short bursts of time with many doctors/dentists) because of the number of our uninsured.

Uninsured Travel from Across US for Free Healthcare from Relief Group Remote Area Medical

I find that pitiful given our national wealth.
 
I believe that the health care industry lobby has skewed current debate with the idea that the main objective is to reign in costs. “Lowering costs” has become the central talking point in all the mainstream news reportage, including NPR. The main problem is not high costs, however. We need to create a system that takes care of the currently uninsured and under-insured. The best way to lower costs would be to institute a single-payer system and get rid of resource-wasting profiteering. Meanwhile, the industry seems to have Washington diverted with a notion of incremental change, using “costs” as a scare tactic. Consider the uninsured and under-insured, not just the upper middle class.

See my post here under the swine flu thread.

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/swine-flu-11852-3.html#post209579
 
I think if a similar service to the UK is started in the USA, all will benifit from improved health care.
 
Since I am a die hard single payer universal health care supporter, I will provide some more links that support my POV for those who want to do more in-depth research on the matter. Just for the record, I have excellent private health insurance that is provided by my hubby's employer. It doesn't cost us much even though, I am being treated for several chronic conditions.

We recently switched from a Kaiser HMO to United Healthcare Choice EPO and Medco prescription drug plan. Everyday, I thank God that we have this coverage. For example, nearly 2 years ago, I had emergency surgery for a Strep Abscess in my throat and was in Intensive Care for 6 days..total hospital stay 10 days..bill $100,000 for hospital and another $15,000 for doctors.. my cost was only $100.00. Everyone should have this coverage and I, for one, am happy that my tax dollars would go to make it so. I feel blessed and because of that, want to share with others the fruits of my blessings.

So...
Physicians for a National Health Program is a non-profit research and education organization of 17,000 physicians, medical students and health professionals who support single-payer national health insurance.
Physicians for a National Health Program - Health Care is a Human Right

Media Matters for America identifies and debunks 14 myths and falsehoods surrounding the health care reform debate.

Myths and falsehoods about health care reform | Media Matters for America

In 2007, The American College of Physicians, the second largest group of physicians in the USA, called for legally mandated coverage of all Americans and urged lawmakers to consider a single payer system as one option for achieving that goal.[21] The American Medical Student Association in a policy statement said that it believes that the best solution to the health care crisis would be a single-payer system of publicly funded, publicly accountable, privately provided, quality health care for all.

Single-payer health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Veterans Administration is a single-payer system and provides excellent quality. In a peer-reviewed paper published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, researchers of the RAND Corp. reported that the quality of care received by Veterans Administration patients scored significantly higher overall than did comparable metrics for patients currently using Medicare in the rest of the U.S.

Comparison of Quality of Care for Patients in the Veterans Health Administration and Patients in a National Sample -- Asch et al. 141 (12): 938 -- Annals of Internal Medicine

Dear AMA, I Quit

Dr. Chris McCoy: Dear AMA: I Quit!

Dr. Chris McCoy, M.D. is an Instructor of Medicine in Internal Medicine at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. He currently serves as the chair of the policy committee for the National Physicians Alliance.

I encourage the AMA leadership to read Atul Gawande's recent article describing how physician culture drives up the cost of health care without benefiting patient outcomes. At the heart of this problem are physicians who have a vision of themselves as money-generating profit centers rather than professionals serving the public good. The AMA represents, and encourages, this mindset with its single-focus on physician reimbursement over all other health care reform issues.
 
Janz:
total hospital stay 10 days..bill $100,000 for hospital and another $15,000 for doctors..
:eek: $115 000 :eek:
$11 500 per day, you would think that for that price you would come out with some kind of platinum lining on parts. WOW

10 grand a day to have a spot in the hospital.
They really are milking it aren't they.
 
:eek: $115 000 :eek:
$11 500 per day, you would think that for that price you would come out with some kind of platinum lining on parts. WOW

10 grand a day to have a spot in the hospital.
They really are milking it aren't they.
Makes you think of either a huge bureaucracy, or a huge money-laundering scheme, huh?
 
Well, I guess you can say that my life isn't worth it. Since I would have died without emergency surgery and the constant care of Intensive Care Nurses. I threw the $100,000 number out there as the cost; however since Kaiser Permanmente HMO had an exclusive contract with Memorial (meaning I didn't have a choice of what hospital I had to go to:mad:); they only paid $60,000 of the Hospital Bill. The Doctors' all are independent of the hospital but still they had contracts with Kaiser as well so they were paid $10,000. I had 4 different docs plus radiologists and lab charges. Many Doctors in our area are dropping Kaiser HMO so there aren't many choices..that is one of the reasons, we changed to United Healthcare.

For more information about Kaiser, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Permanente

You can decide for yourself if it is a huge money laundering scheme.
 
Well, I guess you can say that my life isn't worth it. Since I would have died without emergency surgery and the constant care of Intensive Care Nurses. I threw the $100,000 number out there as the cost; however since Kaiser Permanmente HMO had an exclusive contract with Memorial (meaning I didn't have a choice of what hospital I had to go to:mad:); they only paid $60,000 of the Hospital Bill. The Doctors' all are independent of the hospital but still they had contracts with Kaiser as well so they were paid $10,000. I had 4 different docs plus radiologists and lab charges. Many Doctors in our area are dropping Kaiser HMO so there aren't many choices..that is one of the reasons, we changed to United Healthcare.

For more information about Kaiser, see Kaiser Permanente - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can decide for yourself if it is a huge money laundering scheme.
From the Wiki article:
Kaiser Permanente has 8.6 million health plan members,[2] 167,300 employees,[2] 14,600 physicians,[2] 35 medical centers,[2] 431 medical offices,[2] and $1.3 billion in net income on $34.4 billion in operating revenues.[1] The Health Plan and Hospitals operate under state and federal non-profit tax status, while the Medical Groups operate as for-profit partnerships or professional corporations in their respective regions.​
Damn! I hadn't thought of that. Their non-profit status gives them the same type of tax shelter that churches get. (Would you say that the hospital costs you cited reflect a not-for-profit take on things? :confused:)
 
From the Wiki article:
Kaiser Permanente has 8.6 million health plan members,[2] 167,300 employees,[2] 14,600 physicians,[2] 35 medical centers,[2] 431 medical offices,[2] and $1.3 billion in net income on $34.4 billion in operating revenues.[1] The Health Plan and Hospitals operate under state and federal non-profit tax status, while the Medical Groups operate as for-profit partnerships or professional corporations in their respective regions.​
Damn! I hadn't thought of that. Their non-profit status gives them the same type of tax shelter that churches get. (Would you say that the hospital costs you cited reflect a not-for-profit take on things? :confused:)

What do you think? You talk about charity but then for Charity Foundations and NPO Hospitals to exit, they have to "earn" money. The only difference is that NPOs do not distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, but instead uses them to help pursue its goals. I am not defending the HMO as I had to fight to get treatments and medicines over the years; but I was never denied any medications or treatments.

I am really not that interested in researching this accounting question. Did Memorial Hospital overcharge me for 6 days in INTENSIVE CARE? (look it up to see what that means as far as nursing care.) I was in a coma for 2 days and intubated..couldn't breath on my own. The other 4 days were on a Medical Surgical floor. I had one nurse caring for me the whole time I was in ICU. I thought it was worth it..how do you put a price tag on one's life? I have no complaints about the quality of care either.

From Wikipedia:

In the United States two of the wealthiest Non-Profit Organizations are the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which has an endowment of $38 billion,[18] and the Howard Hughes Medical Institute, which has an endowment of approximately $14.8 billion. Outside the United States, another large NPO is the British Wellcome Trust, which is a "charity" in British usage. See: List of wealthiest foundations. Note that this assessment excludes universities, at least a few of which have assets in the tens of billions of dollars. For example; List of U.S. colleges and universities by endowment


Measuring an NPO by its monetary size has obvious limitations, as the power and significance of NPOs are defined by more qualitative measurements such as effectiveness at carrying out charitable mission and goals.
Some NPOs which are particularly well known, often for the charitable or social nature of their activities conducted over a long period of time, include Amnesty International, the Better Business Bureau, Oxfam, Carnegie Corporation of New York, DEMIRA Deutsche Minenräumer (German Mine Clearers), Goodwill Industries, United Way, Habitat for Humanity, Teach For America, the Red Cross and Red Crescent organizations, UNESCO, IEEE, World Wide Fund for Nature, Heifer International, and SOS Children's Villages.
However, there are also millions of smaller NPOs that provide social services and relief efforts on a more focused level (such as Crosswind — Community Outreach Ministry and Literacy Center West) or the arts to people throughout the world and in the US. There are more than 1.6 million NPOs in the United States alone.

For more information see
http://www.icnl.org/contact/faq.htm#difference

Also here is a link to the Hospital:
http://www.memorialhealthsystem.com/wps/wcm/connect/MH/
 
I wouldn't say that it is putting a price tag on one's life to question expenses for saving it.
Glad you were helped Janz, and you are certainly worth every penny and more, but we are talking about the principle this example you provided reveals, so don't get melodramatic please.

I recall that Steve Martin scene in T,P & Automobiles where he wanted the taxi, but the lawyer was there first and he said, "I will give you $50 if I can have the cab" to which the guy responded " $75 and its yours", then after it was done said "well a guy who will pay 50 bucks will most likely pay $75".
(my paraphrase).
You can always fleece the desperate.
This is common behavior in our world ( ahh think of the money you can squeeze from them, lovely profit... muh hah ha ha)

I know that hospitals get audited regularly and can justify all those costs in one way or another.
It just seems expensive, when quality care is possible to provide for far less if there weren't these parasitic schemes and money-grubbers involved.

As a species, it is in all our best interests to have everybody healthy and patched back together when broken, so to implement a capitalistic methodology onto this aspect of life is quite without compassion.
Kind of like seeing a starving person and you have surplus food, but if the person can't pay you would withhold what they need.

I am reminded of times of war where I have read stories of people in distress in a myriad of ways who received help from others they encountered who asked nothing in return.
Why does this only happen during armed conflict and serious disasters?
Why can't this be normal?
Why does the crap have to hit the fan for people to act like decent human beings?
 
What do you think? You talk about charity but then for Charity Foundations and NPO Hospitals to exit, they have to "earn" money. The only difference is that NPOs do not distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, but instead uses them to help pursue its goals. I am not defending the HMO as I had to fight to get treatments and medicines over the years; but I was never denied any medications or treatments.

I am really not that interested in researching this accounting question. Did Memorial Hospital overcharge me for 6 days in INTENSIVE CARE? (look it up to see what that means as far as nursing care.) I was in a coma for 2 days and intubated..couldn't breath on my own. The other 4 days were on a Medical Surgical floor. I had one nurse caring for me the whole time I was in ICU. I thought it was worth it..how do you put a price tag on one's life? I have no complaints about the quality of care either.
Don't get me wrong, Janz, I'm delighted that you are now well and received the care you needed.

I know too many people who have been harmed by the local HMO, and then went all quiet about it after the HMO paid them off to keep quiet about it. This is known as collateral damage, and it doesn't arise from benevolent intentions/actions. In short, managed care sucks!

Being the skeptic that I am, whenever anyone attempts to restructure one sixth of the nations' economy, I gotta ask, "who stands to make a lot of money off of this?" Why are so many of the "greedy capitalists" from the AMA going for it? I tend to want to follow the money, in cases such as this, especially when "collateral damage" (originally a military term) is deemed acceptable in a business that is supposed to be about promoting individual health....
 
My own view is that a modicum of public health care guaranteed for all Americans is a good thing and will improve the health of the nation..there are currently too many people I believe without any health insurance especially with rising unemployment. Exactly how a National Health Care can be accomplished is up to the legislature and executive. :)
 
I agree with you Shawn. I believe that the costs of health care need to be controlled and that is why I support a single payer approach; however, I know that it will never happen in my country. If we hadn't had health insurance, we would probably be homeless now: something has to change. That being said, I just can't get my mind around the specifics of how to accomplish that in the real world: numbers give me a headache. ;)
 
Philosophically I can understand why you would support a single payer system, Janz, but I think we can do much better than a traditional government system. Examples of poorly run bureaucracies include: the post office, immigration service and motor vehicles.

I support a multi-tier approach to health care. Single payer works for those below the poverty line. A sliding scale based on income and expenditures makes the most sense for those above poverty to me. And there should be room for choice and decisions by the payer.
 
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