Athiest can never disprove the existence of God

Discussion in 'Hinduism' started by param, Aug 1, 2009.

  1. param

    param Interfaith Forums

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    Athiest can never disprove the existence of God

    The atheists can never disprove the existence of unimaginable God due to several unimaginable events (miracles) exhibited by several Godly people and due to several practical experiences of the existence of unimaginable power of God during the lives of several people in this world.

    The miracles are exhibited not only by Godly people and human incarnations but also by evil people having very bad character and conduct, cheating the public in many ways. The development of atheism is mainly due to the existence of such evil people only. But, the atheists are also not analyzing the miracle performed by an evil person. The concept of the miracle is completely different and has nothing to do with the character of the person performing that miracle. A petty fellow, who has worst character due to bad habits like drinking etc., is announcing a rule of Municipality in a town to the public. The message of the announcement has nothing to do with the character of the announcer. Since, the announcer is a bad fellow, you cannot ignore the message of the Municipality and behave as you like. The announcer will be separately punished for his bad character. You will be also punished if you ignore his announcement based on the point that the announcer is not a good fellow.

    Similarly, you have to take the point conveyed by the miracle and ignore the character of the evil person performing that miracle. God will punish him separately for his evil nature. From the unimaginable event (miracle), you should conclude the existence of unimaginable God. This is the message of any miracle to create the fundamental belief in God. Some people having jealousy on great devotees of God or the human incarnation of God, reject the greatness of devotees or incarnation based on miracles by saying “even dirty people perform these miracles. What is the greatness by such miracles?”.

    They pass such comments due to two reasons:

    1) they are jealous of the greatness of devotees or incarnation and
    2) they have not understood the message conveyed by a miracle.

    If a good fellow is announcing a message and if you say that the same message was also announced by a bad fellow previously and hence the message should be neglected, is it correct? A miracle is necessary for majority of human beings to have real belief in the existence of God. Several people are standing on the ground and require this to climb the first step. After having the full belief in the existence of God, miracles are not necessary because the second step is to attain the grace of God through practical sacrifice. But, several theists also need the observation of miracles, because their belief is not perfect and hence to strengthen their belief, miracles are necessary. Even a person having full faith in the existence of God should not criticize the miracles, because you cannot ignore the first step after climbing the second step.




     
  2. Q2008

    Q2008 New Member

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    What reason is there to attribute an 'unimaginable event' to a deity? What reason is there to believe 'unimaginable events' (miracles) have ever occurred?
     
  3. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    That don't freaking proove a thing lol..... "You can't proove he doesn't exist!!! SO HE MUST!" lol.... Harry Potter talking of the Deathly Hallows comes to mind here lol.... Until you can get your little god to drag his butt down here and make himself known, you also can NEVER proove he exists..... *shrugs* Tit for tat.

    Reasons being Jealousy?; What is there to be jealous off? I see nothing.... Is it the reward after life? I haven't experienced this nor seen it.... So there is nothing to be jealous of... Is it the fruits of the works of those of a faith? *casually looks around* Some priest and peope shot up in a church....... Is one example Mother Theresea..... Oh she lived with awesome conditions for her mercy and compassion......... I can find more.... So They don't get any special treatments, luck, fortune.... favour... So nothing to be jealous of again.....

    There is nothing.... Nothing you have that I am jealous of lol..... I feel pity for dillusion not jealousy.... Give an example of these "miracles" I am jealous of? What freaking miracles?

    Another reason.... Not understood the message? *smirks* What's the message?
     
  4. Ramaraksha

    Ramaraksha Interfaith Forums

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    I don't know what religion you are Param, but your views are not what a Hindu should say. Talking about punishment simply because you are exercizing free will - you talk about miracles - why is that all these miracles took place thousands of years ago and none in these days when they can be tested scientifically? Even today I have seen people talk in awe about some baba who walked on fire. Well science has proved that this is just a trick. There are many charlatans around tricking people, just a few who really believed that they had seen God. But all atheists or scientists are saying, don't browbeat us with talk of punishment, show us!

    Please don't forget that we are all God's children/students. Hinduism is a teacher religion. A mother never casts away her child, a teacher never turns away her student.

    The father of Dhristadhyumna prayed to the Gods and was blessed with a son specifically to kill Drona, with whom he had fueded. Where does he send his son for education? To Drona! And Drona, fully knowing that young child would grow up to kill him one day, still accepted the child as his student! What a great story!

    Please don't hang God with your petty biases. Atheists are not bad people, they are simply exercizing their minds. Where is the evidence for God? For some of us belief is enough, but some need more and that is their right.

    God made us human, with a thinking brain, so that we may use it, ask questions, and that is what atheists are doing.

    If you want atheists to believe in God, using reasoning and knowledge, never use threats of violence. That is not the Hindu way.

    What you are saying actually fits Abrahamic religions. These are King religions. The king rewards loyalists, and abuses non-followers. In this scenario, a Gandhi is sent to hell whereas a pedophile gets heaven. It can get comical as the muslims will send Mother Teresa to hell, whereas christians are sending Mohammed to hell. Since each religion has a billion followers or so, they are sending the rest of the human population to hell. A disgusting view of God, using God to proselytize their religion, trying to frighten others to join them with threats.

    Plese don't go down to their level.
     
  5. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Staff Member

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    Quite wrong, really.

    All you've done is said that X exists and X has Xly followers, therefore X exists.

    It's a junk argument, truly.

    Showing faith is quite acceptable, but this degree of flawed logic really does read as quite insulting to the audience.
     
  6. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    As an atheist, I would like to say that "disproving the existence of God" is not a goal of mine. Anybody can believe in whatever deity they like and I'm have no desire to interfere with that.

    The point where I do have to step in and assert my "non-belief" is when secular civil law is involved. You can believe in any God you want, but when you attempt to codify that belief into secular law, then we have a problem.
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Namaste Param,

    Thank you for the post, this is said with tongue slightly in cheek (not that, this) you've defined another similarity between religions...circular reasoning.

    Now seriously, to me the key is to be as comfortable in your belief as you are in your skin. Leaves you not needing to prove yourself. (dispite the fact that others think you do)
     
  8. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    That OP shows what the problem is with religious education/indoctrination. Taking rather dull intellects and perverting them to only be able to follow the simplest circular thought patterns. It is not education at all.... it is stupification.
     
  9. immortalitylost

    immortalitylost Say Meow.

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    Lol, miracles as proof of God... Seeing something as a miracle is rather a state of mind.

    Like, I could see the sunrise, and say "What a miracle that the sun is still here."

    I can see the same thing and say, "Meh, that happens everyday. What's so special about that..."

    Miracles have really nothing in them that proves God exists. Miracles can happen and still be explained by science. Just because we know why something happens makes the fact that it does no less miraculous.

    I dunno, I was just gonna pop in with an LOL post, but there ya have it. I've payed attention long enough to string this many words together. A miracle!
     
  10. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    ¬.¬
    .........
    ¬.¬
    .........!!
    *snatches your lollipop*
     
  11. immortalitylost

    immortalitylost Say Meow.

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    Mind the poison... that's all I'm gonna say, lol.
     
  12. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist In Galt We Trust

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    param, I recognize that there are good theists who honestly believe that they perform miracles in the name of some god. I'm not an atheist because I think that they are all conartists. I am unconvinced regarding religions at a much deeper philosophical level than this.


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  13. shawn

    shawn New Member

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    This statement is really quite good and I can get behind that and I am a Theist.
    I think religion should stay out of the civil law books....unless they can verify absolutely without any doubt and without having to rely on faith that what they say is the case.
     
  14. TheEndIsNigh

    TheEndIsNigh Prepare Thyself....

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    There's something in what has been said.

    Atheism is a scourge upon the Earth and should be wiped out.

    The very thought that anyone should (or even could) question the existence of an all powerful totally heartless uncaring being, that treats it's creations with nothing but contempt and disdain, visits countless atrocities on them and even, according to some, mass extinctions and genocides.

    Why it's an afront to sound thinking and logic.

    The miracle is that such a being allows such electrochemical reactions to occur.
     
  15. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    George Carlin puts it about right...

    [youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RNy6ziOyxoA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RNy6ziOyxoA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]



    "But he loves you......" Unbeatable!
     
  16. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    When you use sarcasm it's helpful to include a winking blue smiley.

    I wouldn't want to mistakenly assume that was your real opinion.
     
  17. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

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    So, TEIN, is your G-d, the G-d of Electrochemistry ?

    Are you a fundamentalist Electrochemist or a reform Electrochemist ?

    We reform electrochemists believe in "cold fusion" :D
     
  18. TheEndIsNigh

    TheEndIsNigh Prepare Thyself....

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    :)

    :eek:

    :confused:

    ;)

    :eek:

    in that order. Is that better?


    Ah the old cold fusionists. I thought the inquisition had sought them out for electroplating. (You now, where the Anode is attached to the ankle and the cathode is left to the imagination:eek:)

    While we are on the topic what's all this business with the G^d, G-d, G|d that I see spattered about the site? Is there some weird convention I'm not aware of?

    Is it a fear thing?

    A form of respect?

    Are there any other no no's I should be aware of?
     
  19. immortalitylost

    immortalitylost Say Meow.

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    Um... don't look directly into the sun?

    That's a goodun... ;)
     

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