Pantheism and Panentheism

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Avi, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

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    What is pantheism and panentheism, and.......


    are Wil, Brian and Poo the only believers in it ?
     
  2. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

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    Oh yeah, it seems to me that pantheism and perhaps more so panentheism are the only logical realist views of what G-d could mean :) !!

    Wasn't this Spinoza's view in the late 1600's ?

    Are these views consistent with Islamic, Christian and Jewish world views ?

    Does this idea transcend the Abrahamics and apply equally to the Eastern religions / philosophies ?
     
  3. shawn

    shawn New Member

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  4. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

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    My view is quite different, Shawn, from my perspective panentheism is not the same as "C" Consciousness. :)

    But I have the feeling I might not be in the majority on this point of view !!!
     
  5. shawn

    shawn New Member

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    The Universe is alive and aware is the premise of panentheism....how does this differ from consciousness which is awareness.....LIFE?
     
  6. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

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    In my view G-d is well represented by pantheism and panentheism.

    Pantheism is everything from what is deep inside the atom to what is at the outer edges of our universe. She/he is in the piece of sand on the table in front of you.

    Panentheism is everything else. It is why your heart is more important than your mind.

    And I never mentioned Mohammad, Christ or Moses. Ut oh, good thing I put this in the Belief and Spirituality sub-forum :D !!
     
  7. shawn

    shawn New Member

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    IMO what we term as G*d is not merely the Universe we behold,
    It is a form for the Formless....
    ain, ain soph, ain soph aur.
    The veils which cover the Holy and conceal the Shekinah from the profane.
    We really only see so very little of all there is to behold.
     
  8. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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  9. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    The Biocentric Universe Theory: Life Creates Time, Space, and the Cosmos Itself | Cosmology | DISCOVER Magazine

    Is there a synchronicity somewhere in here?
     
  10. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

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  11. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist In Galt We Trust

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    Pantheism:

    Universe == God


    Panentheism:

    God exists in every part of the universe, and also transcends the universe.


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Thank you Eudamist for providing a distinction...

    And Tao, once again I must warn you to be careful...
    Namaste Avi,

    Seems your thinking of taking the 'en' boat for a test ride.....yes?

    And as to all your questions...it depends who you ask. Some will say absolutely not, it does not conform in any way shape or form with our thought...others will say it does....and still others like me will tie it to string theory and an indication that not only is the physical world and u n eye 1, but the spiritual world and our religions (including atheism??) as well.

    We are joined at the roots my brother from a different mother...
     
  13. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

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    Sounds pretty good to me. Interestingly, I think it is very consistent with traditional Jewish thought as well (not that that would stop me if I disagreed !!).


    Panentheism seems like a good fit with science to me.


    And you believe that mother is Pan ?
     
  14. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

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    It is nearly certain, in my view, that our understanding of the universe is highly biocentric.

    This is because we have severe limitations as physical and chemical sensors. And we are mathematically challenged :).

    Nonetheless, using deductive and inductive reasoning, we are slowly developing deeper understanding of our reality.

    The connection to G-d, however, may be more psychological in nature.
     
  15. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

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    And the connection to synchronicity is also at the physics / psychology interface.

    That is why Carl Jung and Wolfgang Pauli coauthored a book on the subject :) !
     
  16. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

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  17. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    I think few of us will claim never to have been partner in some improbable synchronicity, but Jung's experiments actually failed to find any evidence. The brain has a capacity to create patterns, it is part of an evolutionary heritage that built what we now refer to concious intelligence. But statistical modelling shows that what we call improbable synchronicity is without exception within range of predicted parameters.

    As for the Biocentrism that is embraced to greater or lesser extent in both Pantheism and Panentheism and in the theory itself.... all it says to me is how incapable we are of thinking outside the box. How narcisstic we are. I think the Universe...as it really is.... is without bounds, infinite. Why? Because the finite needs a boundary and to have a boundary means something is contained within... in what...? Something that too must have a boundary. I think the problem most people face is getting their head round just what infinity means, and no wonder...it is completely dissorientating. I think everything is alive in some sense. The universe we see is a living entity. But I see no gods, only mental cosmetic augmentation to our individual and wholly animal sense of self importance. How we love to label to our whims.

    What is becoming increasingly evident is that we do not even fully comprehend the dimensions in which we operate, never mind those we have no senses to detect. We really are still just cave men pointing at the stars and inventing stories about them.
     
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Oh, my I was just contemplating what the secular fantasy was...and how the relgious delve into contemplation of spiritual things, what this author meant, what that author said, what resonates in their heart.

    And how the material world is filled with its bread and circus to keep it amused, between baseball, football, movies etc.

    And then listening to the gals talk at work...and standing in line at the grocery store looking at all the tabloids of what this actor did or that and then you post...
     
  19. Paladin

    Paladin Purchased Bewilderment

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    Maybe there isn't any meaning at all, objectively speaking. And I'm okay with that. As I write this there are fifteen hot air balloons rising above the trees down at the park. I can see them from my window and imagine the stories each pilot aboard them must have. Earlier, my dog heard me awake and leapt up the stairs to greet me and misjudged his speed and the slipperyness of the hardwood floor. He slid past my open door with a sheepish look on his face, and I laughed out loud before being fully awake.

    Maybe the universe just is, and it's filled with beings doing things, including providing the meaning. I think today I'm going to just enjoy that.
     
  20. shawn

    shawn New Member

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    The world is a place of action.....a place of choices.
    Choose your own adventure.
    I see great profundity in Shakespeares : all the world's a stage and we are players (my paraphrase).
    All of life, busy being.
     

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