Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Avi, Nov 6, 2009.
Ooh! Ooh! I'm one of those intolerant liberals too!
Isn't that what I said, though? If you can't stand the intolerant, yet you are also intolerant, does that not make you the same thing as you dislike?
Would you really expect someone who holds to fundamentals of mainstream Christianity to really agree point for point on the occult with someone with Pagan ties?
It really is an unfair comparison - from here makes you look like the one who has the "attitude", as you're laying down the direct challenge.
Yes, but that's one of the issues of the personal spiritual experience. You know how real it feels, I know how real it feels - but not everyone else will give them respectful consideration, let alone dare consider there may be a real dimension of reality to such experiences.
And there will always be people who fear the unknown, the unexplained, simply for these experiences falling under such categories - there will also be people who fear such because they feel they are forbidden to do otherwise, or feel they have had negative experiences from such.
That's their prerogative, though, just as it's yours to have different opinions about such experiences - no one is ruling on the nature of Ultimate Reality here.
Can I post the bit about where to send me money now?
OK, have always liked this place despite its collection of irrascible miscreants. Had a change of heart after Luna's suggestion I could be a beacon of tolerance myself for the intolerant. I Brian's post is quite right. But even more than that, let's not put words in FS's mouth Raksha. Hear her out first and, should she even have the views you believe she does, a "calm" discussion of that could be interesting, (Raksha this is coming from a fairly "New Age" guy). Whatever our particular views of ultimate reality are, we only stifle interesting debates by turning up the heat as opposed to shedding light. Oddly enough, I'm probably as liberal as CZ, (most "New Agers" are), only I'm a tolerant one. Still wouldn't vote for Sarah Palin however. earl
Yeah, I'm famous for turning up the heat whenever anyone pushes my buttons. But some issues are more important that others, and believe it or not this one really isn't as important to me as some others. And I can't go ballistic over everything, even though I try! I'll try to tone it down from now on.
Linda, I thought you were just revvving up !!
A couple of things:
First, I'm the one who started this thing going down hill. I apologize for that.
But...I believe in guilt by association. A person is responsible for what the groups they are affiliated with profess and do. If you don't want to be held accountable resign. Do it publicly so there's no doubt. I can't imagine anything more untoward than the idea that everlasting torment awaits a person if they don't agree with what another person's group believes. Anything I could possible say about whackos and idiots cannot begin to approach the grievousness, the all utter rudeness and intolerance of that. And it doesn't matter if that person never expresses that, they are complicit by association.
Which leads to IMO, the least honorable basis for one's faith.
"Well, you never know, isn't it better to believe, just to be safe?"
Yes, Pascal's wager. If there is a God do you think It's such dope that It won't know I'm faking it? Sheesh!
I meant that the issue with BB as to whether or not I have the right to call myself Jewish is more important, if I was going to fight with anyone on the board about anything. But I should have been putting my energy elsewhere at that time rather than fighting with anyone.
EXACTLY! I think that's what I was trying to say even if I didn't know it. It's pretty hard to see a belief in everlasting damnation (for other people outside of your own group, of course) as just one more innocuous preference, like a preference for chocolate ice cream over strawberry.
Okey dokey, Linda, so, what are your thoughts about Revelation, Chosen-ness, observance of Halacha, inter-marriage and circumcision (ouch ) ?? And are you Reform, Reconstructionist or Renewal or none of the above ??
Yes. I mean, this is what we're supposed to be tolerant of. I admit I'm fired up over the Sarah Palin book tour. And my parents have started in on me again with the guilt tripping and all their little reindeer games. They think they know everything bt they know nothing. They're smug little stooges who don't read, don't think, and don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. So yeah, I want to see these people marginalized and I'm tired of well meaning syncretists and others who should know better giving them cover. One thing I will say for FS, who I actually like, is that she is a straight shooter who won't try to hide behind political correctness. I appreciate that about her.
Not now...I'm kinda preoccupied here!
But if I hang around you'll be sure to hear it all, although not all at one time and not necessarily in that order. But you know I can never keep my mouth shut about anything.
Okay, one of 'em I can answer in two words: Reform/Renewal
Got your hands full with the "fundies", ay ?
What do you mean, Linda, we are just starting to get you to open up !! Thats what your friends in the Jewish sub-forum are for, right ?
Right now I am backing off of Renewal. I have just been reading some of more of the Mordechi Kaplan book, Dynamic Judaism, and I am a little disappointed that he is quite conservative in several ways. I will write about this on the Recon. thread in Judaism. So it looks like I am moving back toward the Reform movement again. I have found a couple of good books that I need to read about the early days of Reform. I still haven't found any real hero's there to really delve into yet, but I will keep trying.
Have you read any Franz Rosenzweig ?? He's pretty radical. Read any Yeshayahu Leibowitz ?
I've always called that stance "religion as fire insurance." And I agree with you that it's a dishonorable basis for one's faith...craven, in fact.
Aren't you being a little bit unrealistic, though? After all, you aren't going to find any one writer or teacher you agree with 100% about everything, as if that person's beliefs were custom-made for you. It's always a do-it-yourself project, so you take what you need from wherever you find it and leave the rest.
That's why I can't understand why some people are so down on syncretism, and also why I gave my denomination as Reform/Renewal. I was raised Reform but have lately gravitated towards Jewish Renewal. It's not one *OR* the other with me, because there are also Orthodox varieties of Jewish Renewal...just ask Reb Zalman! While I have great respect for him, I'd obviously find an Orthodox lifestyle quite alien and uncomfortable--just a very bad fit all the way around.
I don't understand why you think you have to "pick just one"!
Very good point, Linda, sometimes I am a bit naive, because you are right, I am looking for that teacher that I will agree with everything they say. Maybe it is a sort of messiah complex ? But of course I will never find them. So my approach is exactly as you say, I try to piece together a set of beliefs which are as close to my own as possible. Sometimes this results in some inconsistencies.
From what I know of syncretism it makes a lot of sense to me, please explain more fully why you advocate for it ?
R. Zalman is quite brilliant, and as I said, when I started reading Integral Halacha I thought I would be very drawn to Renewal. I found that I was more turned off by his conservatism than I expected. But one thing that I do like a lot about Renewal is their interest in Eastern ideas. I think he is on the leading edge there. That is also why you will see me hanging around the Eastern sub-forum here as well. I think there is a lot to be learned at that intersection.
I agree completely, maybe I should pick 3 or 4 and choose the best of each !!
If you want me to tell you that what I believe rather than putting words in my mouth than that’s ok if you want to read my mind that’s fine too.. I wont tell you what I think until you do because I can tell you are very sensitive about it. I shared something with you trying to find common ground and you threw it back at me in ugliness. I havent disrespected you a single time and yes that monster chip on your shoulder is definitely showing itself but guess what.. you arent the only one on this forum with a monster chip on their shoulder. If you would relax a little and quit expecting everyone to hate you and treat you like a crazy woman… they wont! At least most of them wont..and I especially wont. Try challenging these peoples beliefs rather than predicting their reaction.
Im not going to let you bait me into saying something nasty because its people like you that make this forum interesting and I would like you to stick around and give people a chance.
Sorry about that! I don't like it when other people put words in my mouth, so I certainly would never want to do that with anyone else. But I was pretty upset and defensive yesterday, and I obviously DID put words in your mouth. If you want to tell me what your current attitude is towards astrology, Tarot, past-life memories, etc. I won't try to read your mind again.
I try to follow the Golden Rule at all times, and today it's painfully obvious that yesterday I did no such thing! I didn't even come close. Again I apologize for being so off-balance and hostile for no reason but general defensiveness.
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