reincarnation is my preferred notion of the cycles of humanity, though l am agnostic, ie l don't know so can't say its a belief [yet]. l would have to experience personally some past live information to support it verbally. is this like an Eternal return ? 'Walter Kaufmann suggests that Nietzsche may have encountered this idea in the works of Heinrich Heine, who once wrote: [T]ime is infinite, but the things in time, the concrete bodies, are finite. They may indeed disperse into the smallest particles; but these particles, the atoms, have their determinate numbers, and the numbers of the configurations which, all of themselves, are formed out of them is also determinate. Now, however long a time may pass, according to the eternal laws governing the combinations of this eternal play of repetition, all configurations which have previously existed on this earth must yet meet, attract, repulse, kiss, and corrupt each other again...' l havent read the first thread yet but enjoyed the Mani one, who l heard had the first portable 'bible' which helped in its popularity at the time. Bruce, on your post #15 on that thread you write, 'That is why there has to be a separation in humanity -the sheep from the goats - in order that the good portion of humanity can be sufficiently prepared to take on the tasks ahead.' Is this the sort of thing that is getting up Avi's goat?