Do you have a soul?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by wil, Jan 4, 2010.

?

Just a question.

  1. Are you a body with a soul?

    0 vote(s)
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  2. Are you a soul with a body?

    13 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Or something else entirely?

    18 vote(s)
    58.1%
  1. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist In Galt We Trust

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    Meaning?


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Namaste Jarrett,

    Me wonders who is not seeing the light...

    So obvious from your response you have no intent to preach...

    Obviously me misconstruing your intent....and you ducking my comment so as to make it appear to fly right over your head.

    I've never understood the anatomy of a martyr, so I'll not ignore...but observe.
     
  3. Amergin

    Amergin Well-Known Member

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    I know that I have a body. I can see it, feel it, feel pain, move my muscles. I also have a mind.

    I have a brain. My brain's complex neural networks generate consciousness, thought, emotions, belief, reason, and all motor movements. For me the mental or conceptual function of my brain is what religious people choose to call a Soul.

    The Soul is not separate from the body. The Soul is a function of the body, specifically the brain. When the brain dies, the soul simply fades away.

    Amergin
     
  4. shawn

    shawn Well-Known Member

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    If that is what you wish to believe then....by all means, have at it.
    It causes me no concern if you have a different belief.
    We all find out in the end that everything we thought to be true is wrong anyways so it is no big deal.
    Pick a belief which works for you and run with it.
    Hopefully it is one which promotes compassion and good ethics however.
    (*For our sake, in the here and now, that is.)
     
  5. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist In Galt We Trust

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    Agreed, and well put.


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  6. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    According to "scriptures" that I adhere to, I was known before my body was even put together. That little "tag" tells me that I am an occupant in a "house", that was made just for...me. It also tells me that I am a bit of immortal. Think about it, if I was known before I was born...yes? no? maybe?

    ok, i'm going back to my hole...
     
  7. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    That is the vital soul, or etheric body + prana (chi). This in no wise applies to the kama-rupa, or kama-manas, and higher principles of consciousness. The Egyptians knew that there were several parts to the soul of man, and the portions which disintegrate, along with the dense physical body after death, are just subtler vehicles - yet still physical.

    We enter the bardo, purgatory, the fields of aanroo, call them what you like ... and traverse the astral plane for a few hours, week, months or years ... and finally we die to that world as well. Another corpse is left behind, to drift and disintegrate, while we move into the manasarupa.

    Usually several hundred years are spent in the world of mind, and sometimes we do actually become self-conscious in the world of the TRUE Soul for a time ... before return to birth, in another set of vehicles, in another location on earth, in a family ... all determined by karma.

    And those of us who can remember this process, or its various phases, can tell you that it's pretty cool ... or at least, here we are. Somehow or another, we managed to survive it. And, we're baaaaaack. :)
     
  8. Amergin

    Amergin Well-Known Member

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    What? I mean what???
     
  9. Amergin

    Amergin Well-Known Member

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    I believe the body is a physical biological mechanism. The brain is central organising organ that manages all of the body's functions including consciousness, cognition, emotions, memories, and perceptions. I do not believe in a separate entity you call a soul. Instead, I believe that what you believe to be a soul-spirit is actually the cognitive activity of your brain.

    The soul does not permeate the body. The body in the brain, a complex of electrochemical circuits, generates the soul. Soul is not material. It is a pattern of electrochemical signals. It represents the pattern of impulses that keeps the body alive, breathing, regular heart beats, and other bodily functions as well as what we think, what we remember, how we feel, our level of alertness, and perception.

    The body is not animated by anything that is not made of matter and energy. The body is animated by a complex brain of electrochemical circuits, long nerve tracts that make muscles perform as our brain directs. Other nerves give information for internal regulation (temperature, blood pressure, glandular secretions, gastrointestinal peristalsis, urge to urinate, motor function of urination, urge to pass faeces, and the motor signals to pass faeces.

    Actually, the body-brain regulates the many aspects of what you call the soul. Soul is just a metaphor for a live body with consciousness and cognition.

    There is no evidence that a soul leaves the body. The brain and body generate the soul. When the body dies, the brain no longer generates the functions of consciousness, memory, perception, cognition, emotion, thinking, and activation of all peripheral parts of the body. The Soul does not leave. The brain's transmission of the soul's activities ceases.

    If you turn off the TV, the scene or talk show does not leave the TV. It just means your TV is no longer generating the picture because you turned it off.

    Our brains are individual, formed by millions of years of evolution, genetics, and individual experience. Our fingerprints and retinal laser scans are also quite individual.

    Soul is not insoluble because it is not a mass but a pattern of electrical signals. It is never dissolved because only mass (matter) can be dissolved. It exists only as electrical signals, which can only stop or start but solution or dissolution, are not applicable. When you turn off Wolf Blitzer on CNN, Wolf does not dissolve. It is just that you cannot see him or hear him with the TV off.

    Amergin
     
  10. Amergin

    Amergin Well-Known Member

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    The soul hypothesis belongs in this discussion. The soul or spirit leads to the invention of god(s) and the delusion of immortality.

    Primitive mankind as he/she began to think more and more, and observe the world around them, they had curiosity about how things worked. We still have that curiosity. They wanted to know how springs bubbled up, rivers flowed, volcanoes erupted, rain fell, and the Sun appeared to move across the sky. They wanted to know how we flexed and extended our hands, how we thought and talked.

    Since they had no knowledge of chemistry, electricity, electrochemical circuits, they could not rely on a science thousands of years in the future.

    They knew that "something" made the spring bubble, and the fingers flex. Something made us think, and when we dreamed, that something could even travel to other places and times. They felt that this something was independent in its action. You could not order it to do this or that. It did what "It wanted." They assumed it was conscious. They called these somethings, spirits (souls).

    Spirits moved the springs to gush water. Spirits moved the clouds and made them rain. Obviously a spirit in our body made our arms move, our fingers flex, our legs walk. This spirit's consciousness must also be our consciousness. When we sleep, it can escape our bodies and go elsewhere. This spirit was responsible for all that we do, including thinking. When it permanently leaves our body that is death.

    Now we know that all of the above can be explained on purely natural mechanisms. We know the pathways of consciousness in the brain. We know our on-off switch is the Ascending Reticular Activating System, which activates the diencephalon and the septal nuclei to make us alert and aware. Connections to the temporo-limbic lobe convey our emotions/affect, to primary sensory areas (visual, auditory, tactile) for perception, to association areas for identification and processing of those perceptions, to the pre-motor cortex to plan complex movements then to the motor cortex to activate the necessary muscles. Spect MRI has mapped though patterns, speech patterns, and even emotional and mystical experiences in the brain. There is no work left over for the soul.

    How is this connected to god? Over time, mankind noted that spirits were in trees, rivers, springs, clouds, animals, and even rocks. But we are also lumpers more than splitters. Mankind began to merge the many spirits into groups of greater spirits or gods. Akenaten of Egypt who merged them all into one God, Aten the Sun God reached the apex of the trend. Moses likely was influenced by Akenaten's heresy. He merged all of the male and female Hebrew Gods into one JHWH. Older Jewish manuscripts document the last stages of polytheism, with the plural Elohim.

    So the soul, which has essentially lost all meaning in human behaviour, is essential for two reasons. It is part of the complex reasoning (using the term loosely) in creating God. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly is our delusional hope for immortality. We all want to live forever, but we know the body dies. So we can only be immortal if we have that ethereal something in us that outlasts the "mortal body."

    This is why humans cling so tenaciously to the soul concept, immortality. And this leads to God and the Bible being defended so savagely from criticism. It contains all of the excuses for believing in spirits, souls, god, and immortality. Some Atheistic gomeral trying to destroy your immortality is the greatest possible threat.

    Amergin
     
  11. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Dimensions, Locomotion & Inspiration
    exist even when all that existed was darkness above the stirring waters below.

    The soul's nature is

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Re: Do you have a "Individual Person"?
    The "Individual Person" hypothesis belongs in this discussion. The "Individual Person" or "Free-Man Conception" leads to the invention of 'Fascistic Despots' 'Fascistic Despots'(s) and the delusion of immortality.

    Primitive mankind as he/she began to think more and more, and observe the world around them, they had curiosity about how things worked. We still have that curiosity. They wanted to know how springs bubbled up, rivers flowed, volcanoes erupted, rain fell, and the Sun appeared to move across the sky. They wanted to know how we flexed and extended our hands, how we thought and talked.

    Since they had no knowledge of chemistry, electricity, electrochemical circuits, they could not rely on a science thousands of years in the future.

    They knew that "something" made the spring bubble, and the fingers flex. Something made us think, and when we dreamed, that something could even travel to other places and times. They felt that this something was independent in its action. You could not order it to do this or that. It did what "It wanted." They assumed it was conscious. They called these somethings, "Free-Man Conception"s ("Individual Person"s).

    "Free-Man Conception"s moved the springs to gush water. "Free-Man Conception"s moved the clouds and made them rain. Obviously a "Free-Man Conception" in our body made our arms move, our fingers flex, our legs walk. This "Free-Man Conception"'s consciousness must also be our consciousness. When we sleep, it can escape our bodies and go elsewhere. This "Free-Man Conception" was responsible for all that we do, including thinking. When it permanently leaves our body that is death.

    Now we know that all of the above can be explained on purely natural mechanisms. We know the pathways of consciousness in the brain. We know our on-off switch is the Ascending Reticular Activating System, which activates the diencephalon and the septal nuclei to make us alert and aware. Connections to the temporo-limbic lobe convey our emotions/affect, to primary sensory areas (visual, auditory, tactile) for perception, to association areas for identification and processing of those perceptions, to the pre-motor cortex to plan complex movements then to the motor cortex to activate the necessary muscles. Spect MRI has mapped though patterns, speech patterns, and even emotional and mystical experiences in the brain. There is no work left over for the "Individual Person".

    How is this connected to 'Fascistic Despots'? Over time, mankind noted that "Free-Man Conception"s were in trees, rivers, springs, clouds, animals, and even rocks. But we are also lumpers more than splitters. Mankind began to merge the many "Free-Man Conception"s into groups of greater "Free-Man Conception"s or 'Fascistic Despots's. Akenaten of Egypt who merged them all into one 'Fascistic Despots', Aten the Sun 'Fascistic Despots' reached the apex of the trend. Moses likely was influenced by Akenaten's heresy. He merged all of the male and female Hebrew 'Fascistic Despots's into one JHWH. Older Jewish manuscripts document the last stages of polytheism, with the plural Elohim.

    So the "Individual Person", which has essentially lost all meaning in human behaviour, is essential for two reasons. It is part of the complex reasoning (using the term loosely) in creating 'Fascistic Despots'. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly is our delusional hope for immortality. We all want to live forever, but we know the body dies. So we can only be immortal if we have that ethereal something in us that outlasts the "mortal body."

    This is why humans cling so tenaciously to the "Individual Person" concept, immortality. And this leads to 'Fascistic Despots' and the Bible being defended so savagely from criticism. It contains all of the excuses for believing in "Free-Man Conception"s, "Individual Person"s, 'Fascistic Despots', and immortality. Some Atheistic gomeral trying to destroy your immortality is the greatest possible threat.


    CAUTION
    Tell your doctor about all of your medical problems, especially the ones listed below:

    The following adverse experiences were reported in SUBJECTIVE SPECULATION WHILE THE WAR WAGES®-treated patients with an incidence between 1% and 5%. In descending order of frequency they were anorexia, nervousness, insomnia, fever, confusion, diarrhea, abdominal pain, dyspepsia, rash, anxiety, euphoria, dyspnea, postural hypotension, chills, twitching, gastritis, abnormal dreams, thought abnormalities, and hiccups.

     
  12. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Erzats:

    The soul's nature is . . . described in the Bhagavad-Geeta.
    what Amergin has been subjectively opining is all about the "False-ego" that is cultivated during one's life-span . . . the material body/ego in contradistinction to the presense of the Spirit-Souls' conscious life-Force.

    I will be posting soon the "Nature of the Soul" from the Geeta ASAP.

    Bhaktajan
     
  13. The Undecided

    The Undecided Well-Known Member

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    Here are three quotes form Ken Wilber's book No Boundary which go some way to explaining my understanding of what the soul is, by use of the term 'unity consciousness'.



    “Unity consciousness is not a state different or apart from other states, but the condition and true nature of all states.”


    “…there is but one immortal Self common in and to us all…”


    “This, then, is the message of Jung; and more, of the saints, sages, and mystics, whether Amerindian, Taoist, Hindu, Islamic, Buddhist, or Christian: At the bottom of your soul is the soul of humanity itself, but a divine, transcendent soul…”


    The unity consciousness is the ocean of consciousness of which each of us are a part. Our connection to it is the eternal self that is beyond our ego, body and environment. It is the part of us which is one with the universe. It is Brahman, it is Tao, it is God, it is beyond boundaries and judgements. In words from the Vedas, "Truth is One, but sages call it by many names."

    TU:D
     
  14. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    I am in essence grains, atoms of sand.... Slowly slipping through an hourglass into eternal darkness.
     
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I guess I'm safe for a while...I ain't fittin thru no hour glass.
     
  16. shawn

    shawn Well-Known Member

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    Darkness is merely an illusion 17....sorry to burst your bubble of melancholy but, there it is.;)
     
  17. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    darkness the absence of light...cold the absence of heat...

    in the universe what is the 'natural' state?
     
  18. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Post 114: I am in essence grains, atoms of sand.... Slowly slipping through an hourglass into eternal darkness.

    ......................................................
    In essence you are CONSCIOUSNESS living in a Sand Castle like body in an Ocean of of Time.

    Black contains all colors.
    White Light contains all colors.
    Consciousness is above inanimate stasis.
    We are in a dynamic Machine where there is always the case that:
    Life comes form life IOW, Consciousness comes from Consciousness.
     
  19. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    Ah in a matter of speaking your size may, or may not be in question about fitting through an hourglass lol. But, whatever size you amount to, atoms are atoms. You're bio degradeable :)

    No it isn't you have eyes, that is what you use to seperate dark and light is it not? Once you die, your eyes shall rot and there will be no light. But, there will be darkness. :)
     
  20. Muslimwoman

    Muslimwoman Coexistence insha'Allah

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    Sums up nicely what I believe and saves me having to come out of my hole and think of how to put it ... well done Q.
     

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