American Politics: The Tea Party Tidal Wave

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by Janz, Sep 16, 2010.

  1. Janz

    Janz What's Amatta U

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    Moderate Republican candidates are being massacred by the upstart Tea Party candidates so far in quite a few primaries. Looks like Sarah Palin is going to run for President in 2012 (God help us): the right is rising up. My question is what the hell happened to the Liberal/Left? Where is the Obama that I voted for?

    Obamacare is an insult to anyone who longs for Single-Payer Universal Healthcare and yet the far right is using it to get their base motivated this November. The corporate media is destroying President Obama's presidency: all I hear is rah rah Tea Party this and that and down with the Democrats.

    Any thoughts about what is happening on the United States political scene?
     
  2. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    Back when Reagan won his first presidential election, I remember thinking that once he implemented some of his conservative agenda, the left would rise up in protest as they had in the late 60's and 70's.

    Little did I know that the country would turn even further right, embracing consumption, money, SUVs and turn its back on leftist ideals. At that moment I realized that I had no clue about the character of the people that make up the United States.

    I have no clue why people who enjoy the comforts of this society are so loathe to support it. I have no clue why people have taken to view themselves as islands unto themselves instead of being a part of a whole. I have no clue where this is all headed.

    But despite the direction this country takes, I do know that wisdom, compassion and enlightenment are still available to anybody who seek them. So I will focus on those gifts and hope that eventually things turn around.

    Peace.
     
  3. Dogbrain

    Dogbrain Well-Known Member

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    He turned out to be just another liar who easily gulled the stupid and naive. He turned out to be exactly what I thought he was--just a typical Chicago machine politician, telling pretty tales to a pack of morons, special morons who were so stupid that they bought the rhetoric and cried "Racist!" at anyone who wanted to see a little substance behind the facade.

    You picked the politician, now you get to wallow with him. Hope you enjoy the consequences of voting for slogans instead of programs.


    The natural consequence of what happens when self-appointing elitists end up running everything and people start to notice how stuck-up, and ivory-tower they and their supporters are.
     
  4. Dogbrain

    Dogbrain Well-Known Member

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    The leftist ideal is MATERIALIST. Marxism, the highest high church of leftism is a purely materialist dogma. Leftism is all about "do your own thing" and "everybody deserves a free color TV". America simply embraced the core values of the left, "SELF ACTUALIZATION!", "PLEASURE IS ALL-IMPORTANT!", "MORALITY IS OPPRESSION!". Those are the values touted by the left in the USA since at least the 1960s. "Personal responsibility" and "moral choices" were outdated, obsolete, repressive, to be exterminated.

    Anyway, Reagan wasn't conservative, he was just a jingoist and social chauvinist. If you are not an ignorant bigot, you know the difference. If you are an ignorant bigot, you will presume they are the same thing.

    Under Reagan, government spending overflowed. National debt overflowed. The power of the Federal Reserve overflowed. These are all things that conservatives loathe.

    Because being part of a whole is old-fashioned, conservative thinking. Indeed, it's the most conservative of conservative thinking. The USA has rejected conservativism and is embracing, instead consumerism, jingoism and chauvinism.

    Conservative values: Fiscal prudence and responsibility. Moderation of the sensual pleasures. Always know your place in and impact on the community. Respect your elders. Respect your community. Civic service is an obligation of all citizens. Charity is a virtue. Self-indulgence is to be avoided.

    American values: Be a spendthrift! Borrow to buy! Indulge in any and all sensual pleasures! Screw the community! It's all about what *I* can get! Screw the old farts! To hell with the community, again! Civic service is bull****, I just need to get out of it! Charity is useless, government programs take care of all that! Self-indulgence is the whole point of life!

    If you say that America has become conservative, then you are ignorant of Americans, ignorant of conservativism, or just plain ignorant in general.
     
  5. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    And it's turned some people bitter and mean-spirited.

    Maybe an Interfaith forum is the best place for Db.

    A little humility, prayer or meditation may be just what the doctor ordered.
     
  6. Janz

    Janz What's Amatta U

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    Not too worry..I have dbutt on ignore because he is one of the rudest of the rude. Not a judgement just an observation. ;)
     
  7. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    Like observing that elephants are big and gray. :D
     
  8. earl

    earl ?

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    Well, not that I think tea partiers are a compassionate, thoughtful bunch, but, I think it's the old political voters' question asked implicitly, "are you better off than you were 4, etc. years ago?" Under Democrats, the answer would be "no," generally speaking. Under Republicans it would be "God, no." Americans want results-fools that they may be and there have been few. Even if Congress gave Obama every thing he campaigned on, it probably wouldn't have turned the big battleship of this poltical economy sufficiently around by now. We don't fully trust government, yet we, rightfully, don't fully trust corporate economics/the "free" economy.earl
     
  9. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    From across the pond, it looks like bi-partisan politics is ripping up America - it's one thing for politicians to only represent their own party political interests over the national interest, but in a close two-party system these seems to result in deadlock and lack of progress.

    Even in the UK we're forced into compromise, even though the third major political party was - until recently - relatively minor - but now has the deciding say on a coalition government.

    If the democrats lose the coming primaries, the impression is that the US will be politically crippled for the rest of Obama's term. In the current financial crisis, it's hard to see that as a good thing.

    Can really see the Tea Party movement forcing a stand-off with China over the Yuan and other trade/economy issues. From here, I don't think anyone pushing that realises that America would lose out to such a confrontation. China has become an incredibly powerful economy, and the US is economically crippled. Last days of a superpower in north America?
     
  10. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Brian, the next world war will be America vs. China -- and most people do not see it coming.
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    You should start another thread on that one...

    As I see it with owing them nearly a trillion dollars...and a 30-40 billion dollar trade deficit every month...twould be like a bookie killing a bettor who owed him just to show him... The chinese need our money to fuel their expansion fully into a first world nation...I don't see how they are going to go to war with us.

    but back to the OP...

    The tea party is to the GOP what the greens are to the Dems...to far a fringe, requiring to much committment and sacrifice to actually go there...

    Obama has had to concede a lot to get passed what he has got passed thru congress...if he stayed way left soooo much of this would not have been accomplished, there simply weren't the votes.

    As it is, it is creating the typical pendelum swing...and more to come..
     
  12. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    Sorry, what is GOP? Seen it mentioned a few times in various threads.
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Sorry about that, it is the Republicans...our conservatives, the Grand Old Party
     
  14. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercur├Žn Buddhist

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    My observations: Americans do not like the "political party establishments."

    Republicans and Democrats are both out-of-touch and inept.

    (Have you noticed the Congressional approval ratings?)
     
  15. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    Yet somehow we can't escape this darn two-party system.

    My views: the point Dogbrain does have is that what conservativism means has shifted. If conservatives still thought and voted like my now-passed-on conservative grandfather, I'd be much more likely to be a truly independent "independent" and back conservatives on certain issues. However, conservativism of the Dogbrain sort has largely become extinct, and "conservative" now means one or more of the following:
    1. Fine with corporations buying and running the government
    2. Totally OK with the most non-conservative environmental policies ever- rape, pillage, and plunder with no thought for future generations, sustainability, or even maximizing economic return on resource use.
    3. Right-wing religious views, with a focus on blocking civil rights for gay people, minority religions, etc. and ignoring any respect for separation of church and state.

    Basically, my view of the Tea Party is that they seem like an angry bunch of folks who don't have much in the way of solutions. And sorry if this makes me a stuck-up pretentious "liberal" (I would call myself closer to being outright socialist, not a liberal Democrat)... but my impression of the Tea Party is that it is filled with people who, quite frankly, are not educated enough on the most pressing issues, who are like bulls in a china shop in terms of cultural competency, and who are unlikely to listen to experts in various fields of inquiry. It's not about ivory-tower intellectualism. It's knowing that the problems we face can't be solved with anger combined with the kind of common sense that drives, say, balancing your budget at home. We live in a complex and global economy with a ton of competing issues, each of which are impacted by and in turn impact millions of people in the US and billions of people abroad.

    Sorry, but when I look at Palin, who I see as the quintessential Tea Partier, I see someone who is not educated enough, who is incapable of listening to others who don't share her views, who is a fringe right-wing Christian (I mean, the woman endorsed witch hunts in Africa, for Christ's sake!), who has been proven to have little to no competency in foreign affairs or even understanding people who are different from her, and who is inarticulate.

    I find the Democrats to be the only option... not because I think they're great (because I think they're pretty lousy, really), but because I refuse to endorse people who bring their religion into their governance. I'm anti-theocratic, and will do everything I can to ensure our government stays as religiously neutral as possible. We can and should have morals and laws. We should NOT be basing those on a single sliver of one religion's morals and laws that were written for another culture and society over 2000 years ago.

    The primary reasons I can't even *consider* a Republican are that they are: against a woman's right over their own body, against equal rights for gay people, and generally seem like they'd like to oppress cultural, religious, and other diversity. Not to mention the big issue of their track record on dealing with the poor (let's just let rich people get richer, get rid of regulation of business, and let poor people get screwed!).

    The Tea Party seems to be the farthest fringe (without going off into truly cult-like fringe movements) of the reasons I do not like the Republican party.

    ETA: I do not mean education to mean only formal education. People may be educated through reading, watching PBS and multiple countries' news shows to get a more balanced perspective, learn languages and other things through CDs in their car, etc. By education, I mean the broad, sweeping commitment to learning over the course of one's life and being open to the input of others and new ideas, including the developments that come out of research.
     
  16. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I'm a conservative...

    I'm pro conserving our constititutional rights and hence back the ACLU because that is ALL they do.

    I'm pro conserving our environment and conserving open space for animals and people to play.

    I'd like to conserve our natural resources for the future as well...

    I'm a conservative and would like to conserver conservation.

    And I like tea too... Just not the cafinated leaf kind, sometimes the green tea, but most often the herbal...
     
  17. earl

    earl ?

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  18. Janz

    Janz What's Amatta U

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    @ CZ: :D I am sorry for being so petty.

    @POO: I agree that Rockerfeller Republicans have been wiped out of the GOP with the advent of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Regan. That was their intent and the intent of the Religious Right was to redefine the GOP's social platform. They really want to use Government to enforce their idea of Biblical Moral Values. I really believe that Christianity has been hijacked by the Religious Right but whenever I start talking about the Christian Taliban, people roll their eyes at me.

    I can understand why moderate Muslims do not want to be more proactive about the Radicals that have hijacked their faith. Most Americans (that I encounter) think I am paranoid about my fear that the Tea Baggers+Evangelical Christianity=A threat to the United States in the form of a Theocracy but more and more I see this as a possibility again and again. I will be a Cassandra until the darkness comes.

    See: Tea Party Movement Rift: Leaders Debate Whether To Push Social Issues Along With Fiscal Ones (VIDEO)

    From the above article:
    "Tea Parties and condemnation of excessive government spending were front and center at the 2010 Values Voter Summit in Washington, D.C. on Friday, with the audience excited on the heels of Christine O'Donnell's win in Delaware's GOP Senate primary. But what was different from many other Tea Party gatherings was the infusion of religious "values" rhetoric and the belief that in order to succeed, the movement must aggressively embrace and push for social issues, in addition to the fiscal ones that attract the most attention.
    One of the morning's most popular speakers was Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), who has been heralded as a "kingmaker" in the media for the success of several of his candidates -- including O'Donnell, Rand Paul in Kentucky, and Sharron Angle in Nevada -- in trouncing the Republican establishment-backed picks.

    DeMint then devoted the rest of his speech to refuting the idea that the conservative movement should focus on fiscal issues rather than social ones. "I hear regularly as I travel around this country, someone will tell me, 'I'm a fiscal conservative conservative, but not a social conservative.' I want to straighten him a little bit this morning, because the fact is, you cannot be a real fiscal conservative if you do not understand the value of a culture that's based on values," he said to loud applause.

    To make his case, he said that without strong Judeo-Christian values, the American public becomes dependent on the government. "When you have a big government, you're going to have a little God," said DeMint. "You're going to have fewer values and morals, and you're going to have a culture that has to be controlled by the government. But when you have a big God, you're going to have a responsible and capable people with character to control themselves and lead their own lives. And you can't have a little God that promotes freedom and allows people to keep more of their own money, and a government that's not bankrupt. A government that's not bankrupt. We're talking about fiscal issues."

    I find this type of thinking to be abhorrent and illogical. :eek:

    @ Wil..I am a strong fiscal conservative with my personal budget. I must admit that it does make me nervous that we as a nation are borrowing tens of billions of dollars from China and Japan; but then, I do not understand Macro-Economics nor do I own a small business. It seems that everyone is borrowing from everyone these days..it used to be that one had to have their own capital to start a small business but now you borrow the money to do so.

    @Earl..gotta love Jon Stewart, he is the best along with Stephen Colbert, his faux political nemesis. Did you know that Colbert is planning to hold an opposing rally at the same time called "March to Keep Fear Alive."

    Here is a quote from The Colbert Report: "They (meaning Stewart's million moderate march) want to replace our fear with reason. But never forget 'reason' is just one letter away from 'treason.'"

    Does anyone else have a right on parody better than Colbert? I think not! At least not sense Monty Python.
     
  19. Dogbrain

    Dogbrain Well-Known Member

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    Since I am right, and you cannot actually refute my statements, you resort to this.
     
  20. Dogbrain

    Dogbrain Well-Known Member

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    Ladies and gentleman: The typical leftist. Cannot rebut, so instead ignores.
     

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