Confusion about Mary

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by pghguy, Oct 4, 2010.

  1. pghguy

    pghguy Well-Known Member

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    OK so as a Catholic, while some other Christians also hold the same view, we are to beleive that Mary was sinless. This also ensures us that Jesus' birht could only be a virgin birth, according to Catholic doctrine (but by no means all Catholics) that sex before marriage is a sin.

    So, in oder for this to be true, this means Mary would have to have been exempt from or born without original sin.

    So, why would just one person be given this privilage? This obviously means that God can rid his people of original sin and even make us sinless beings. Why would He not do this for everone? Not doing it for everyone might seem like loving some more and others less.
     
  2. shawn

    shawn Well-Known Member

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    Mother Mary, one of the weak points in the whole story, as how could a sinful woman give birth to a sinless god?
    So they had to do god only knows how many rewrites until the got that one to its present version.

    Lots of correlation to the Isis and Ishtar stories and others.

    Of course this story will be defended by the faithful acolytes of this cult.
     
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Actually, according to Scripture, Mary was betrothed to Joseph, so had 'sex' occurred, then it would have been outside of marriage, would it not?

    The point is, 'sex' did not occur. How can it?

    Mary's 'baptism' was of a different order, as acknowledged by the salutation of the Angel, but Mary is numbered among the human race, so she is inescapably subject to the human condition ... her sinlessness then results not from an exaltation of her birth, but rather is worked, by the Trinity, as part of her destiny as Theotokos, the Mother of Christ.

    Her salvation, like the salvation of humanity as a whole, was won on the Cross, but the effects of the action are 'outside of time' in the sense that the Passion and Resurrection are known, as indeed are all things, aeternally in the Blessed Trinity (hence Our Lord can assure the robber that 'today thou shalt be with me in Paradise' even though, technically, He had not yet achieved what He had set out to do).

    Or it might seem like the request of sour grapes. I mean, God could say the world and everything will be perfect and make it so in a twinkling ... but the point is, God allows many to co-operate in his own salvation, rather than treat him as a possession, or an automaton.

    And, on the other hand, how do you know He doesn't?

    The point is, that is His to give, it is not ours to assume.

    Thomas
     
  4. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    This world is a world of temporary existence.
    The binding influence of our mundane acts (sin) causes bondage.

    Devotional servitorship to God and his devotees is the path that leads us away from the life of "repeated birth & deaths" (aka, transmigration of the soul, re-incarnation of the soul into future another body at death).

    The material world where life is animated by the presence of a conscious soul is an embarassing situation that the soul finds itself ensconced in while compromising eternality for temporal delights.

    The material world is a place of sufferring [the 1st Noble Truth of Buddhist Doctrine].

    "Be like your Father in Heaven"

    Mary was part of the Lord's personal entourage, engaging in pastimes designed to create a "Change of Heart" in the on-lookers and the celestrial hosts too.
     
  5. pghguy

    pghguy Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly what I said in different words, perhaps you misunderstood me. Catholic doctrine teaches sex outside of marriage is a sin. It was simply a sidebar that the majority of Catholics in reality do not agree.


    Sounds like a huge stretch at best. I suppose if one tries hard enoguh, he or she can come up with an answer for anything.

    Our religions tell us He doesn't. So, to persume He does would be to go against our religions.

    P.S. - Sorry for the formatiing. The code didn't seem to work right.
     
  6. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    As usual, I'm not sure I am understanable:

    The Word 'Sex' [as a Verb] is an aberation of the term, 'extra-curriculum'.

    Please Reference the ethomolgy of the latin words here to get my point.
     
  7. horiturk

    horiturk Active Member

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    She was a sinner,like everyone.....praying to her or in her name is definitely idolatry.
    i don't accept jesus christ as God so i simply think she gave birth to a messenger of God,a man.
     
  8. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    OK. So what has this to do with Virgin Birth.

    The sinlessness of Mary is that she was not born under Original Sin.

    Yes, one can. It's also the simple and logical solution to the 'problem'. When the angel made its salutation to Mary, he said as much.

    So it's no stretch at all really. Just careful and contemplative reading of Scripture.

    Thomas
     
  9. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Indeed she was.

    That's why we don't do that.

    Thomas
     
  10. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    But you do recognise how small and insignificant & un-informed & lost you are? Yes?

    Can you recognise the way to the gates of this city, ca you locate on this aerial photograph ---how to get out of this walled city?

    If you cannot ---then you are haplessly in the lap of Mayadevi.
     

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  11. horiturk

    horiturk Active Member

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    I think those who deified a man are the lost ones.....

    acts 2:22
     
  12. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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  13. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    When one contemplates Mary, it is worth contemplating some of the titles by which she is known: Theotokos, Blessed Virgin, Immaculata, Co-mediatrix, Our Lady, The New Eve.

    In Genesis, one might argue, sin comes into the world through Eve — the serpent offers her the fruit, and she offers the fruit to Adam — in Mary, the process is reversed, she, representing humanity, has a chance to offer an act of fidelity that can be seen to overwrite that primordial act of disobedience, and salvation comes to the world through her assent.

    Thomas
     
  14. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Here's a contemplation of Karl Rahner on the Blessed Virgin:

    When your existence began, sanctifying grace already was yours, and that irrevocable grace was with you always. You walked the way of all the children of this earth, the narrow paths which seem to wander so aimlessly through the life of time, commonplace, sorrowful roads, until death. But they were God’s ways, the path of faith and unconditional assent: “Be it done unto me according to thy word.” And in a moment that never passes, but remains valid for all eternity, your voice became the voice of all mankind, and your Yes was the Amen of all creation to God’s irrevocable decree. You conceived in faith and in your womb him who is at once God and man, creator and creature, changeless unalterable blessedness, and an earthly life marked out for bitter death, Jesus Christ our Lord. For our salvation you said Yes, for us you spoke your Fiat; as a woman of our race you accepted and bore in your womb and in your love him in whose Name alone there is salvation in heaven or on earth. Your Yes of consent ever remained, was never revoked, even when the course of the life and death of your Son fully revealed who it was that you had conceived: the Lamb of God, taking on himself the sins of the world, the Son of Man, nailed to the cross by our sinful race’s hatred of God, and thrown, him the Light of the world, into the darkness of death, the lot that was ours.
     

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