What's the beef with homosexuality?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by pghguy, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. fadded blue jeans

    fadded blue jeans New Member

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    no the only part that not true is that you to can be saved >?

    HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL ? NOT TO SWELL? .. So if you think the bible tells you Jesus came to save you to .. than you better believe the rest of it also. rather than pick and choose like a heathen.
     
  2. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    I corrected the to/too's in the above quote so it reads easier.

    So, just to clarify, you DO believe everything the bible says is true?

    Are there any people in your church that were adopted as kids? Have you informed them that they aren't welcome in your church since the bible says so? (23 Deuteronomy)

    Are any women allowed to speak in your church? Have you informed them that they can't do that because the bible says so? (1 Corinthians)

    How old do you think the earth is and why?

    Do you believe the sun revolves around the earth or the earth revolves around the sun and why?

    Do you believe dinosaurs existed?
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Tell us where the bible says homosexuality is a sin and what the punishment is and if you believe it.

    You wish to make statements, but not respond to others?

    Is that what your religion teaches you to do?

    Does your preacher avoid questions as well?
     
  4. fadded blue jeans

    fadded blue jeans New Member

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    i did respond i gave a viemo video that explains what not only my pastors believe the bible says but els clc lcms and many other lutheran synods and pastors as well..

    you just didnt watch it.

    And by the way you asked if my pastor teach me to not respond to others..

    yes they do teach as the bible says dont through pearls to swine..

    i still do not concider you swine perhaps that may come where i will have to concider you such .. BUT i THINK IF YOU WATCHED WHAT I GAVE TO WATCH .. you might see that we dont hate homosexuals at all .

    but i think you might because you sure dont seem to want them forgiven of that sin ..

    i am going to ask .. are you living in that sin? if you are you need to watch it even more..
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Oh I watched it. I just prefer to take one point at a time. A point it appears you wish to avoid. Again, the scripture, chapter and verse you point to with the recommended appropriate punishment for this sin so we may discuss.
    nice copout. So you avoid the point because you cannot discuss?
    Again, I watched it, did I anyhwere indicate that I thought you hated homosexuals?
    Again, please, the scripture and recommended punishment for this sin...which scripture are you so afraid to reference?
    No, I am not a homosexual. Although I do find it interesting that we see often those who rally against it are soon found in airport bathroom stalls doing tap dances...but that is another story.

    It is not my issue, but there is much discussion that it might have been the 'affliction' Paul was fighting...the sin he couldn't help himself of.
     
  6. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    homosexuality should be compulsory and heterosexuals should be condemned and persecuted, how about that ?
     
  7. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    That would certainly take care of our overpopulation problem on this planet :)
     
  8. bob x

    bob x New Member

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    This is seldom true.
     
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    It would definitely wake us up to what it is like to be on the other side.

    No matter how compassionate or understanding we think we are we have no clue what it is like to be in another's shoes.
     
  10. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    If you believe homosexuality is ok then your wrong, it really is all about belief. So if some were forced into cohersed threatened ect its wrong but doesnt really effect the spirit or body. You have to really submit to that. Also its doctors psychiatrists saying its ok that is the problem. So its about knowledge as to why its wrong. Wow someone is really trying to make the military look bad. I believe in peace but those who really want war are sick.
     
  11. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    All HUMAN beings are heterosapien. Get it. Everything else extends out from HUMAN. Get it. So its about rape. The eyes have alot to do with it so rape also has to do with the eyes. A man turning men to himself eyes to eyes sexually thats causing the imbalance. Why all the bad stuff is goin on so watch the evil serpent. The eyes. There is a good serpent that is not poisionioius and its a king cobra. This is male and female union stuff two one male and one female that even though are two are also one as well but also three. So men watch the eyes but also watch a mirror if you see a mirror in the eyes break the mirror to see true gender. It cannot be changed.
     
  12. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    So who really has been bashing who?
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I love that. It is about belief, and you believe I am wrong. I do not believe homosexuality is ok, for me. It appears to be natural and ok for others. I don't believe anyone consciously decided in jr high or high school that they wish to be ostracized, abused and rediculed the rest of their lives...yeah...it is a choice, if that is your belief. I've asked many a homosexual how it started how they knew...and the vast majority say....I was never attracted to girls, I was always attracted to men...I knew I was different when I was very young...
    Heterosexuality is wrong for them...it would be a lie, many are forced by society to live that lie, and that is much more detrimental to themselves, society and their family.
    out of the blue?
    Intesting, I'd be willing to bet a higher percentage of homosexuals would agree with you. It is mostly male heteros that like to bang their fists on the table and go off and kill somebody.
     
  14. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    that makes no sense at all to me ?
     
  15. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    The only gay person I know well, the brother of a close friend of mine, fits this description.

    He dresses in a suit & tie everyday and has a successful career. Very intelligent and handsome. Looking at him or talking with him, you would have no idea he is gay. Single women throw themselves at him. But he's not interested in women, never has been.

    His dad and grandpa (conservative Christians) basically disowned him for being gay, after trying for years to talk him into "curing himself" of his homosexuality. His last long-term partner, who was in the military, refused to have an openly gay relationship (out of fear of losing his job, this was in the "don't ask, don't tell era), and their relationship fell apart as my friend's brother didn't want to hide his sexuality from society any longer.

    He has told me he wishes he wasn't gay as it's very difficult to endure such discrimination and hate at the hands of many heterosexual members of society. But he is attracted to males and not all the attractive females who also wish he wasn't gay. And he feels that forcing himself into a heterosexual relationship, getting married and having kids, just to fit society's expectations of him, would be unfair to all involved.

    For those that think homosexuals are not "born gay" but instead "choose" such a lifestyle, why do you think someone would "choose" such a difficult path in life?

    I personally think many heterosexuals, particularly those that hold a literal view of the bible, don't want to consider that their God would create a person in such a way; this is a very uncomfortable thought for them. Much easier to just say gays choose that lifestyle; then they deserve the suffering of their sinful ways.

    Believing someone is "born gay" would assume that God doesn't have a problem with homosexuality. Which of course he must, since the Old Testament says homosexuality is an abomination ("they shall surely be put to death" !!!) and the New Testament says homosexuals won't inherit the kingdom of God :(

    Of course, this is the same bible that says bastards shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord (even up to the 10th generation of an illegitimate child), and neither shall someone who has injured their scrotum or penis. And yes, the same bible that says women can't speak in church. Tough crowd!
     
  16. ciel_perdy

    ciel_perdy New Member

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    iowaguy wrote:
    I personally believe that some people are born gay, but I also see that we have a lot of control over our sexuality too. While the old testament does say homosexuality is an abomination, it is specifically dealing with the issue of practicing it. I don't think a gay person is any more of an abomination to God as is a hetrosexual. Considering also that the new testament says that fornicators (meaning men and women having casual sex) won't inherit the Kingdom of God, then it's a reasonably level playing field. Jesus never spoke about homosexuality, I believe it's because there are more important issues to God than sex, namely greed and our replacement of faith in God, to our faith in money. Jesus spoke about people being celibate for the Kingdom. This is something I have practiced for 8 years. For those who are gay and Christian, Christ's call to abstain for the sake of the Kingdom goes out to both straight and gay brothers and sisters alike.

    Hetrosexual fornication is seen in the same light as homosexual activity. Both parties may not be able to changes their 'urges' or 'desires' within, but both parties can abstain from the action.

    God's love and standards are the same for both.
     
  17. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    IG, you are kind of limiting G!d to the literal word of a specific sacred text. Even within that, there are loopholes (as ceil pointed out). And if the term "to know" in the tale of Sodom means "have realtions with" I just have one more problem with a literal reading. I just prefer the reading of the text as guidance in our journey.

    Pax et amore omnia vincunt. Radarmark
     
  18. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    OK, let me be sure I get this straight. You believe some people are born gay (which, from a Christian standpoint means God condones them being born that way). But you think they should never have sex with someone of their same gender, even though they were born gay? You're fine with them being gay as long as they never have sex?

    If they do have sex should they also be subject to the "put to death" standard of the bible? Or just not inherit the Kingdom of God?

    Are you proposing that all people "born gay" be celibate? Or that they "grin and bear it" and get married, have kids, etc.

    I think asking all gay people to be celibate is quite a stretch... What about letting gay people get married, then they wouldn't be "fornicators"?

    I know you're big on compassion and love; do you not think homosexual partners can truly love one another? Why the discrimination?
     
  19. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    what is it they say

    If you put spaggetti in boiling water it soon bends :rolleyes:
     
  20. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    I personally don't limit God to anything in the bible or other ancient text. I think the "holy texts" are not God's word but were instead written by ancient man with all the same prejudices and homophobia as many modern humans have.

    But many people believe those words in the bible. Most states in the U.S. don't let gay people get married. And as noted by Ciel, Christianity is generally not welcoming of gays unless they're celibate.

    Many Christians will quote the OT and NT verses on homosexuality as justification of their discrimination. Yet, as you mention, not take other parts as literally (probably not even the 2nd half of the same OT verse that first calls homosexual acts an abomination then calls for them to be put to death).

    Holy texts should indeed be used as guidance in our journey. Not as justification for discrimination; which is ironically the exact opposite of Jesus' teachings.
     

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