Psychic mediums don't believe in Hell?

Discussion in 'New Age' started by pghguy, Oct 24, 2010.

  1. pghguy

    pghguy New Member

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    Is it true, as I've heard, that most psychic mediums do not believe in Hell? Or at least, Hell as many people perceive it - a physical place of eternal torture and suffering?

    It seems that if they believe in any form of Hell, it is of our own creation and does not have to be permanent.
     
  2. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    The key word here is 'eternal.' There is no such thing as an eternal hell.

    Yes, we create our own hell after death. Alcoholics, tobacco addicts, etc., have cravings that are actually stronger after death, yet these people no longer have a physical body within which to satisfy their cravings; this is exactly what hell is.
     
  3. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    I would like to add that I have known several very good professional psychics. They have all said that hell is not eternal. (Perhaps they have 'first-hand' information worth considering?)
     
  4. Dharmaatmaa

    Dharmaatmaa New Member

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    >Perhaps they have 'first-hand' information worth considering?

    Maybe their visions are subjective? How you think, their visions agree to one another? As I think they must have seen different things according to their own karma.
     
  5. _Z_

    _Z_ from far far away

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    Hi nick
    How many people don’t have any cravings e.g. sex, food, cars, houses etc. perhaps cravings are only bad when one lives by them rather than generally?

    No physical body, no cravings ~ surely? Do our cravings derive of the soul or of the earthly body? I presume the latter, and that they are simply part of our functioning in this world.

    I agree though that religion and spirituality should warn of the dangers with extremes in any form, but if not done in moderation they themselves are the extreme.
     
  6. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Dharmaatmaa,

    I have found that, the better the psychic, the more their information agrees with each other.
     
  7. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    "No physical body, no cravings ~ surely?"

    --> I guess we'll just have to wait and find out. In the meantime, I'm making sure I do not take any of my physical vices with me when I transition into the afterlife.
     
  8. _Z_

    _Z_ from far far away

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    Really! What none at all? Depends what you mean as I was talking about desires and cravings which we all have [we all must eat etc], but yes vices are different, is drink a vice? Was it when we all drank beer because water was usually dodgy. Perhaps it is, but life is not that nice all the time and a few pleasures if not taken to extremes is not a bad thing in my opinion, certainly I don’t think they stain the soul.

    But yea I guess we’ll find out. :)
     
  9. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Z,

    For example, I like eating a really good steak. (Yes, I know, it's very un-Buddhist of me.) But if I never had another steak for the rest of my life, it would not bother me.

    If a person likes to drink beer, would they have a problem if they suddenly had to give it up for six months? If so, then I am convinced they would have the same problem if they suddenly no longer had a physical body to satisfy such a craving with (but still had an astral body, which is the vehicle of cravings and desires).
     
  10. _Z_

    _Z_ from far far away

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    Well we don’t know if the astral body craves for things, I presume that it exists prior to incarnation hence it is possible that it doesn’t. if we see it in Egyptian terms this would be the higher self [ka] to which we return after our incarnations, such that it is necessarily a divine being. With such origins one may expect that the voice of the soul denies cravings, and religious doctrine arises from this inner voice. However I do feel that each incarnation brings a different story and so a set of ingredients to the souls constitution, so it is important to live life and not deny it, even if against our higher judgement.

    This is how we druids explain the purpose of life, hence are often poets and storytellers. To abstain from all things is to deny the purpose and I feel is a quite fruitless endeavour.
    So it comes down to weather or not the soul is divine or if it has to earn that? I feel there is a bigger picture than to simply abstain from life.
     
  11. Dharmaatmaa

    Dharmaatmaa New Member

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    Z>Well we don't know if the astral body craves for things

    What "craves" then, if it isn't the Astral body? Our desires must be collected somewhere, and this "somewhere" isn't a body or a physical brain, it's obvious.

    Z>it [soul] is necessarily a divine being

    Yes, in its origins. But it's not completely divine. A part of it is closer to the Divine, another one - to the material and to craves.
     
  12. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    "Z>it [soul] is necessarily a divine being" --> "Yes, in its origins. But it's not completely divine."

    --> I agree. And once the astral body and its associated desires, cravings, and addictions are cast away forever (once they are no longer needed), it will be much more 'divine.'
     
  13. _Z_

    _Z_ from far far away

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    True but many of them are causal, genetic and generally of the world. We ‘need’ to desire things, it is only when those desires become all consuming or extreme that they are a problem.

    I don’t see what is wrong with want? It is a natural aspect of interacting with the world.

    well the way I see it is that the soul remains the same, it is eternal.
    Something like this…

    The soul of the pyramid

    Egyptian soul - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Someone posted me this concise understanding of Egyptian spirituality so I felt I had to pass it on as it is usually so confusing, many people ascribe different meanings to the various aspects, but I feel this is the best explanation I have come across to date. I have added some elements [some from wiki] to further explain it and to fill in what I thought was missing.

    Personally I feel that if you read between the lines and form some manner of unified vision then it is not so fragmented, though it may intentionally be as such to act as a life-training tool. It wont be easy to understand but it is well worth taking the time to read this single page of information, the Egyptian civilisation was entirely built around its spirituality which lasted many thousands of years, and this is the result of not only many thousands [possibly hundreds of thousands] of Egyptian scholars, but many modern ones too.

    Ancient Egyptian metaphysics does not employ the simple Judaeo-Christian concepts of »ego«, »personality«, »soul« or »personhood«. The pharaoh is a matrix composed of various intra-psychic and extra-psychic entities.

    As far as his inner realm is concerned, the pharaoh is a cluster of interacting components the harmony and integrity of which must be preserved and reinforced in a life-long process of fine-tuning.
    These components include;
    1. The »akh« ~ a latent soul that becomes manifest as soon as it enters the circumpolar realm. Presumably this is what the soul becomes as it leaves its earthly body.

    2. The »ka« ~ a 'gestalt soul' or invisible doppelganger that produces and preserves the visible form of the human body [and its mummy].
    3. The »ba« ~ an agile soul that mediates between akh and ka, astral and terrestrial existence, the world and the beyond.
    The 'Ba' (b3) is in some regards the closest to the contemporary Western religious notion of a soul, but it also was everything that makes an individual unique, similar to the notion of 'personality'. (In this sense, inanimate objects could also have a 'Ba', a unique character, and indeed Old Kingdom pyramids often were called the 'Ba' of their owner). Like a soul, the 'Ba' is an aspect of a person that the Egyptians believed would live after the body died, and it is sometimes depicted as a human-headed bird flying out of the tomb to join with the 'Ka' in the afterlife.
    Some have argued as I do, that the Ba is not part of the person but the person himself unlike the soul in Greek, or late Judaic or Christian thought. It is the actual ‘you’.
    The word 'bau', plural of the word ‘ba‘, meant something similar to 'impressiveness', 'power', and 'reputation', and is perhaps the reflection of oneself in the world and how we are perceived by others. one takes an immediate sense of who a person is upon meeting [fool or wiseman etc] and this is the essence of that sense.
    4. The »sechem« ~ a 'power soul' enabling the deceased pharaoh to influence worldly affairs from the beyond.
    5. The protective 'shadow soul' called »schut«.
    6. The 'god soul' »netscher«
    7. Then the 'image soul' »achem« residing in the pharaoh’s statues.
    8. The name ren. As a part of the soul, a person's ren was given to them at birth and the Egyptians believed that it would live for as long as that name was spoken, which explains why efforts were made to protect it and the practice of placing it in numerous writings. For example, part of the Book of Breathings, a derivative of the Book of the Dead, was a means to ensure the survival of the name. A cartouche (magical rope) often was used to surround the name and protect it.

    The pharaoh is not a mere entity or being, but rather a PROCESS. In spatial terms, his living body is a composite of limbs and individual organs. This non-unified ensemble moves through a complex temporal landscape composed of a rhythmic totality called »neheh«, an unalterable, self-identical infinity called »dshet«, and a personal time called »acha'u«.

    The acha'u itself is connected to the vital power »ankh«, the magical capacity »heka«, the truth/justice »ma'at« [universal balance] and the epistemic faculty called »hu«. These forces and fields are independent of the individual ruler. The pharaoh is a shifting zone of interaction, a wandering realm where worldly and otherworldly vectors meet: a 'strange attractor', so to speak. The unity of this sphere must not be allowed to disintegrate: during his lifetime, the pharaoh has to PROVE his integrity at regular intervals; once he has entered the netherworld, this unity is preserved and continually reinforced by a specialized priesthood.

    So whenever we analyze the meaning, purpose and function of pyramid complexes, we should not reduce them to mere tombs, socio-economic projects or places of ancestor worship. While a typical pyramid complex does resemble a medieval cathedral, a bustling centre of spiritual and economic activities managed by a priesthood, rather than a dead mausoleum or classical necropolis, it is not even a truly religious artefact. The visible hardware reflects the complexities of a highly sophisticated metaphysical software -- the ancient Egyptian »Science of the Otherworld«, as Prof. Hornung once termed it. »The pyramid« is an interface between the latent and the manifest (see Hornung), potential proto-being and actual being, the 'hidden' and the 'named' (see Prof. Assmann's masterful treatise »Schleier und Schwelle«), the primeval hill of creation and its subsidiary »py«-lands (see Finnestad), the stellar akh and the mummified ka, the abstract sechem of the beyond and the concrete achem of the statues, the straight visible Euclidean space of the world and the strangely non-Euclidean space of the otherworld, the two ancient Egyptian conceptions of time, the personal psychic entities of the pharaoh and the impersonal forces invading him, his astral destiny and his terrestrial obligations, his predecessors and his successors, and the multidimensional netherworld and its ma'at-driven counterpart.

    That's why the Egyptian pyramids are absolutely unique. While it is certainly true that these gigantic monuments provided a mighty impulse for the development of administration, astronomy, mathematics and architecture, I maintain that their raison d'etre is not reducible to the socio-economic substructure or ideological superstructure of a highly centralized state, rather the pyramid is the embodiment of the eternal soul .

     
     
     
     
     
  14. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Z,

    You said,

    "I don’t see what is wrong with want? It is a natural aspect of interacting with the world."

    --> Unfortunately, there is a problem. We are born into this world because we want to be born into this world. This is called Trishna, or a thirst for physical life. For most of us, as soon as we die, we desire more physical life, so we turn right around and are reborn one more time. We are "trapped" in desire for a seemingly endless chain of physical rebirths. The only way to break the chain and move onto a higher-than-human level of consciousness is to stop the ‘want’ you speak of.
     
  15. Comet

    Comet New Member

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    I grew up a Catholic and was always told there is a Heaven and a Hell! I broke free once i was old enough and started asking to many questions why i am finding my own path now!

    There are some mediums who don't believe in hell I don't believe it exists either! After we die our soul lives on in other bodies if we choose! Dr. Brian Weiss talks about that in his books!

    If ya want more info on a Physchic Medium point of view i suggest ya all read my friends book:

    A Bridge To The Other Side: It changed my view on alot of things!

    https://www.createspace.com/3460206
     
  16. _Z_

    _Z_ from far far away

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    that’s the theory I know, :) but a baby and certainly a foetus has extremely limited abilities which begin at zero as they form in the womb. So for the theory to be true we would have to desire to be born into the world and then loose all ability? It seams to me that it’s a universal law if you will, that everything begins at zero, people, universes, everything!

    Ask yourself this; is it wisdom to begin life will all the deficits of a previous incarnation, or to start afresh? Is it even wisdom to give souls karma as something which apparently clings on to it through incarnations. Indeed is it the purpose of life to abstain from it rather than partake in your story, etc, etc.
     
  17. woodsyroots

    woodsyroots New Member

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    Wow pretty deep conversation but I'd just like to contribute this bit. That if karma is deeply embedded beliefs or belief systems and we were to have an experience of going beyond beliefs into a pure eternal space it would as the Buddhist say destroy your world as you have always known it. Certain it was the only one and was real. Worshiping nature perhaps as many do. So you might come back with this knowledge within you somewhere simply because your desires still had the upper hand but they have been weakened. The structure doesn't necessarily all fall in one lifetime. It begins. Now this lifetime you begin to develop the ability to go into the unmanifest and back, you are becoming more conscious- the fear of death/change/nothingness/ego loss is diminishing and one day it is no more.(except I can't figure out what happens to keep the physical from aging)
     
  18. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Z,

    You said,

    "...for the theory to be true we would have to desire to be born into the world and then loose all ability?"

    --> I do not see a connection between desire and ability.

    "…it’s a universal law if you will, that everything begins at zero, people, universes, everything!"

    --> I would say yes and no. We can say that a person begins at zero in their first human incarnation (although I technically disagree with this idea too, because a human being has been through a great deal of hard work just to get to his or her first human incarnation). All subsequent incarnations are strongly influenced by good and bad karma that has been acquired in previous human incarnations (which leads me to the no part of my answer).

    "…is it wisdom to begin life will all the deficits of a previous incarnation, or to start afresh?"

    --> I see it as halfway between the two extremes. I believe we do not begin each reincarnation with all the deficits of a previous incarnation. (It has been said that we are given in each reincarnation only the amount of bad karma that we can handle in that incarnation — if we were forced to burn off all of our bad karma in a single reincarnation, we would be crushed by the weight of it and not make any progress at all.) In addition, most people have no memories of their previous incarnations (but a few memories from old reincarnations do creep in for a few people). Most people do not remember their previous incarnations, which is part of the "fresh new start" we get at the beginning of each new reincarnation. (If the average person remembered all of his or her previous incarnations, it would be a disaster.)

    Another idea you raise is the idea that people can start a new reincarnation without being held accountable for the bad things they did in previous reincarnations. For obvious reasons, I disagree with such an idea. We are never "forgiven our sins" -- karma never forgets. (Why should it?)

    "Is it even wisdom to give souls karma as something which apparently clings on to it through incarnations."

    --> This sounds like a rhetorical question, but of course I say yes.

    " Indeed is it the purpose of life to abstain from it rather than partake in your story, etc, etc."

    --> The purpose of life is to abstain from balancing out karma? I don’t follow you.
     
  19. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Woodsyroots,

    You said,

    [If] "…we were to have an experience of going beyond beliefs into a pure eternal space it would as the Buddhist say destroy your world as you have always known it."

    --> Would that be good or bad?

    "Certain it was the only one and was real."

    --> Some people say the physical world is real. Others say it is only an illusion. (I am of the second way of thinking.)

    "…you might come back with this knowledge within you somewhere…"

    --> I agree.

    "…your desires still had the upper hand but they have been weakened."

    --> I agree. And one of the purposes of living a physical life is to weaken our desires. We cannot achieve enlightenment, then achieve nirvana, until we have eliminated our phsyical desires.

    "…the fear of death/change/nothingness/ego loss is diminishing and one day it is no more."

    --> I agree.

    "…except I can't figure out what happens to keep the physical from aging…"

    --> Are you asking how mediation masters are able to stop physical aging?
     
  20. _Z_

    _Z_ from far far away

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    Well a new born cannot see much because there is a link between knowing and seeing/perceiving. It seams apparent that a new born does not have the knowledge of the world that we do in even basic terms like seeing, if karma is carried over then it would be incarnated within our minds, and then we would be able to see. The evidence suggests this aspect at least is not true.

    This may be so, although we don’t know if we get more than one incarnation ~ I mean you have to find some way of getting souls into bodies and we end up with Cartesian duality. This aside what is needed is adequate drivers of the human vehicle, this nor life generally implies that good/bad is the basis. In fact I often wonder if we got it all a bit back to front, the purpose may not be to go back to our original self [or Buddha being if you like], but rather the creation of souls and adequate drivers of vehicles.

    The multifaceted reality map;
    http://www.interfaith.org/forum/the-multifaceted-reality-map-13288.html#post235199
    If you get time nick take a look at this then you will get my perspective as it now stands, then we can resume here.



    Because there is no ‘it’!
    It is more like one life is a recipe for a stew, it gets blended into soup ~ a oneness, then in the next incarnation it is reconstituted [if reincarnation is even true that is] into another recipe. Good and bad are events and behaviourisms, I wouldn’t judge someone by their deeds and I don’t think our actions become part of us in any other sense than the knowledge they add to the Akashik.

    When reincarnated we get a new body with new genes, and it is most likely them which are responsible for most of what we are and how we behave. Apart from that we may have some general personality traits innate from a previous incarnation, but I would see those more in terms of abilities.
     

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