We are all G!ds.

Discussion in 'Theology' started by wil, Oct 28, 2010.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I believe Jesus answered when challenged...
    So we start a new thread.

    How did the Jews understand it....before Jesus said it, and after Jesus used it in response?

    And how do you interpret it today?

    Was Jesus being a smart ass? Or was he making a point about us all?
     
  2. horiturk

    horiturk New Member

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    are you trying to pose that we as mortals are gods?
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    not the mortals, just the rest of us...
     
  4. c0de

    c0de Vassal

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    That's it... no more ac!d for this dude.


    [​IMG]

    i so miss teh embed... damn youtube ban!!!
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I don't believe in any anthropomorphic G!ds of old....dragging the sun across the sky, tossing lightning bolts and plagues, some whiny vengeful tyrant tossing gifts or punshment based on his menstrual cycle.

    The Taliban leaders claim the floods in Pakistan are G!d's revenge...

    give me a break...

    we have made G!d in our image...giving him our traits of jealousy and vengefulness and wishy washy can't make up our mind crap...what you killed the men? Go back and kill all the women and children too!

    G!d made me do it, the devil made me do it.... we all try to blame others for our own actions, and when we can't find a scapegoat we blame the invisible....go ahead prove me wrong...

    Prophet, servant of G!d, psychotic, or someone just trying to avoid reality and cover their mistakes...

    We are the creator of our lives....
     
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The New Testament text is taken from John 10.

    "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings." (17-19)

    Jesus is contending with the Jews, and once again makes an implicit claim to his divinity, culminating in v30-31:
    "I and [my] Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him."

    Here follows a complex discussion:
    "Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand"

    His enemies attempt to stone Him for blasphemy — declaring His divinity. Jesus argues that His works stand as proof of what He says, even to the point of believeing in the work, if one cannot believe in the worker.

    The argument he uses refers to Psalm 82:
    "A psalm for Asaph.
    God hath stood in the congregation of gods:
    and being in the midst of them he judgeth gods..."
    In v1 the psalmist paints the divine assembly under God. Some suggest this is from Israel's pre-monotheist days.

    "How long will you judge unjustly:
    and accept the persons of the wicked?
    Judge for the needy and fatherless:
    do justice to the humble and the poor.
    Rescue the poor;
    and deliver the needy out of the hand of the sinner.
    They have not known nor understood:
    they walk on in darkness:
    all the foundations of the earth shall be moved."
    (v2-5)

    Thus God denounces those powers for failing in their duty towards their charge. This is the implicit denunciation in Christ's words to those who accuse Him of blasphemy — they fail to do as they are supposed to do, whereas Christ fulfils everything that the Father expects of Him — so by what right do they condemn Him?

    "I have said: You are gods
    and all of you the sons of the most High.
    But you like men shall die:
    and shall fall like one of the princes."
    (v6-7)
    The condemnation of the gods by God, and their punishment: stripped of their powers they forfeit immortality. The final phrase echoes the fall of the King of Babylon who set himself up as a god.

    Arise, O God, judge thou the earth:
    for thou shalt inherit among all the nations."
    (v8)
    This final verse is that of the psalmist's call for God's judgement upon the earth, in which the wicked shall be punished and the poor set free.

    In the psalm, the phrase 'ye are gods' is the very reason they are condemned and stripped of their 'divine status', in effect they never were gods at all, if they were they would not have fallen, rather they have taken autonomy upon themselves, consider themselves to be the equal of God, and by their pride upset the very foundation, fabric and meaning of the cosmos (v5).

    In a wider sense this condemnation can mark the the fall and the exile of the angels who defy the will of God, and in fact applies to all rational creatures who can share in the divine life — who can be called Sons of the Most High — but who fail to live according to the title they take for themselves, and thus fall by their own pride and intransigence.

    In John, Jesus' words are bitterly ironic — they condemn Him, even as they fail to bring to the people what He brings, and what He brings is of God because He is God, but they would kill Him, for being who He is.

    Thomas
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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  8. c0de

    c0de Vassal

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    This isn't an argument w!l, this is you on a pulpit.

    Seriously, lay off the weed.
     
  9. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Shades of Reason

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    Maybe so, but he makes a valid point. Mankind has been creating gods to suit our fancies for ages. Maybe it's time we start taking some accountability for ourselves, and know that the world is in our hands.

    If there is a God who created all things, then I'm likely to believe that he rested from ALL his work, leaving mankind everything they would ever need.

    But but mankind wanted more! Mankind desired evil so much that we created a false god in our own corruptible image in attempt to justify our wicked deeds, and then wrote a few books about him.

    Then came a man who had discovered what it would take to realize Paradise on earth. He taught us to love one another, which is something mankind didn't want to do, so ....

    That man was eventually crucified, and his very simple message meant to inspire us, and unite us as a peoples was corrupted, prophesied to return one day to destroy all the wicked people on earth.

    WTF!!

    What I once thought I understood, has turned into something I wouldn't buy with your money.

    Back to life people! Back to reality!

    Fact: The best way to keep a man down is to convince him that he cannot rise above his current condition .... This is where the Christian religion truly shines. We are told that we are wicked, sinful, and can do nothing good apart from the God-Man called the Christ.

    Don't bother trying because you are evil, wicked, a reprobate by nature, and it is a pointless endeavor to attempt to be a good person and to better our world. Instead, we are encouraged to believe in some mystical heaven after death, and to forsake the world we live in.

    Sounds like some people didn't want us to advance as a peoples to me. The question is why? :rolleyes:
     
  10. c0de

    c0de Vassal

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    let me know when you guys are done with your sermons.
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    the part you highlighted was me indicating what our folks who blame g!d for their problems say....

    and is this really code talking about preaching....

    lastly, who is it that is forcing you to open this thread?
     
  12. c0de

    c0de Vassal

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    All you did was caricaturization of the opposition without tackling the issue.

    As if the Taliban represents all those who don't share your "we're all gods" view

    Have you met this guy:

    [​IMG]



    and before you accuse me of hypocrisy for my Almost Famous reference,
    that was basically a response to your "not the mortals, just the rest of us..."
    like seriously, what'd you expect in response to a comment like this?


    as if dude

    oh so you want me off your thread now?

    want me 2 leave you alone w!l ?

    just say so man
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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  14. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    OK. Can we have your interpretation then, and its reasoning?

    Thomas
     
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Heck code, I don't care. If one decides to participate in a thread that is a choice. If you decide to just come in read the thread, and then tell the posters to stop preaching at you.... That would be your issue. It is like people complaining about what is on tv, or their car radio.... turn the dial.

    So you are indicating I am anthropomorphizing myself? How could that be?

    Or you are indicating that the fact that I have the ability to change my perception and understanding of myself and my life, that I cause and create my future that I believe that I and you and we all are 3d manifestations of G!d in this plane of existence that this is anthropomorphizing G!d?

    Naw, I am not saying I am G!d, I am saying we are G!d, we are one, we are the continually begotten of the only begotten, sons and daughters of the most high.

    wheeeee.....tall order eh? You want the whole bible. Right here right now? 66 books selected out of hundreds...the Jewish Canon rearranged and ordered to end on a bad note so the good news, the Christian Canon, could be added to be the solution? Hmmmm.....

    Tis your autobiography. The story of your life. Written between 5,000 and 1800 years ago...translated, edited, modified, extracted from and added to since....just for you today. A collection of parables, mythology, historical fiction, allegory and morals all written for another time, and this time, for you, right now. Every thing that occurs in your life, every instance of relationship, governance, dealing with material v. immaterial, with spritual v. physical, every contemplation of good v. evil, oneness v. duality, love v. fear....it is all written, numerous times, in numerous ways....from the philosiphical circumambulations in your mind to the physical allegory that is your life...it is there, for you to enjoy, to learn from, to glean, to enlighten your load.... but not just for you Thomas...

    it is the autobiography of us all....as we are one.

    But will it resonate with us all? No, because we come from varied backgrounds, have had different experiences, have walked different paths in different shoes, with different upbringings.

    But for me? Tis my number one scriptural source.
     
  16. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

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    Q. Which, of all the other varieties, of anthropomorphism should a person ascribe to?

    Possibly answers:

    a] The apartment flat you reside in is anthropomorphically ruled/managed/controlled/supervised/maintained by "remote" presence of an anthropomorphic being known as the property landlord; aka, lord of the land.

    Has someone here mastered the art of "Paying taxes(rent) & dying"?

    b] Behind every great mechanism is a great mind.

    That's the status quo.

    WHAT EVERYONE (ie: high-minded deep thinkers) MUST REMEMBER IS:
    A 100 year life span is reduced [8hrs sleep of each 24hr day (1/3rd)] to
    66 years of waking-time, of the 66 years of waking-time:
    16.5 years [1/2 of 16hr waking-day] is weekly work time;
    The remaning 16.5 years are free-time that includes utilitarian things like:
    cummuting to work, eating & hygeine & shopping & approx 12-16 years of formal school-study-homework.

    Ergo, a person of 50 years of age would have had 8 1/4 Years of "Free-Time".

    Re-cap:
    100 yr life span =
    16.5 years of "Free-Time" +
    16.5 years of "weekly work time" +
    33 years of "sleep time" +
    33 years of "gainfull employment".

    Of course, a person can cheat or innovatively flex their schedule to accomodate anything they could dream of/manage to accomplish.

    So, it can be seen by the naked numbers that most of our lives are not spent meditating on the sublime spiritual transcendent purports of scriptures.

    That is why "The Frog in the Well" analogy is applicable to persons that assume they have an opinion on a subject that they have spent such a fleeting short few moments to comtemplate ---announcing grand cosmic rallying cries for the world to notice them.

    For something to be correct is MUST be checked/verified with three scources
    1 Guru [aka, personal mentor],
    2 Sadhu [aka, contemporaries of your mentor],
    3 Sastra [aka, the text books of your mentor].

    Of course, a person may have hired a bad or even terrible ['terrible' as in, 'terror'] because they resisted reading the texts so as to dissern correctly what defines a proper mentor; or, of course, a person may "represent himself in court before the magistrate" thinking they could conjure up some magic based on their own prowess ---that is how things work.

    Why cannot a worthy person be deified?

    It may be honest to say that "I has never met a saint" but that is simply cosmic mis-fortune ---while the present life-time exists. Being optimistic about the future is candy-apple odes to "Being a kept woman" ---there are long-reaching future reasons for our daily bread braking that adds up over the course of the life long curriculum.

    There are Principles & Principals ---they are not meant to be seperated ---but exiling one's self from society at large has occurred since Eden's last autumn leaves.
     
  17. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    No, I am indicating you are determining God according to yourself.

    Yes, that's precisely what it is. God is just the exemplar of the human in your book.

    And reality check: Go find someone dying of cancer, and heal them. Until then, I suggest you can't change anything about your life, or any other life, other than what is accidental to it.

    And put the world's enviro/eco problems right, while you're at it.

    Then you are. Or can you explain how we are God, but not God?

    And explain also how you propose God exists, according to the very principle that Stephen Dawkins rightly (but erroneously) argued, that God cannot exist.

    Because if 'we' are God, then your God is composite, contingent and relative, will increase and decrease (according to population), and at some point did not exist, and at some future point will cease to exist ...

    ... also explain how, if we are God, that we're in the mess we're in.

    No, actually very simple ... I did it ... you're avoiding the issue.

    No Wil, sorry, but this isn't an argument or a reason ... this is just sentimentalism.

    Back to the question ... or rather my response ... you're creating God in your own image.

    Thomas
     
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Nah...we are the image of G!d. We being everything we can see...

    and everything we can't.

    I love that. Seems you've about run out of steam there Thomas.

    If I can't heal cancer than I can't change ANYTHING about my life.

    Now I do believe there is only one life I do have the power to change and that is mine. I don't have the power to change anyone elses life, but I do have the power to change my perception about the situation.

    But lets get back to that challenge....heal someone with Cancer.

    Now we know that there have been countless spontaneous remissions. And we know that when someone dies of old age we find they combatted cancer many times and overcame it. We know we all have cancersous cells going to work in our bodies right now...just a matter of who is going to win, the cancer or our immune system.

    So....who are you claiming has healed cancer and is now upto me to prove that I can? G!d?? Jesus?? Christ?? Krishna?? the Oncologist??

    If G!d heals folks of cancer, why is there cancer? Does he pick and choose? You over there....die....you over there .....live???

    So if you wish me....to prove I am G!d by going and curing someone of cancer....you should be careful.

    Would you like me to pick the nearest hospital and have your version of G!d go heal someone of cancer? No? Why not? You think I should dance to your beck and call but not your version of G!d?

    Or are you trying to catch me in the wilderness?

    tis ok you little devils sdvocate you....
     
  19. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    yeah? tis simple my brother, the exact same reason that we are in this mess if there is a G!d.
    you translated the whole bible to the Thomas version? I missed it, provide the link.
    Not an argument, or a reason, or sentimentalism...

    tis the truth.... you got issues with it? Tell me of a situation in your life that the characters in the bible haven't gone through. yeah yeah, you had dropped your cell in the toilet...
     
  20. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

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    NEW FLASH:

    We (homo-sepian human bi-peds) are informed of "GOD".

    Aboriginal jungle tribes hunter gatherers & hedonistic empires do not have ephiphanies as to the existence of GODHEAD.

    Godhead is bestowed upon the first forefathers ---from that point on, the knowledge dwindles until all is lost amongst the extant population.

    Then again, Godhead must re-establish the lost links ---the degree of revelation is inaccord with those yet to soon be born to inherit whatever degree of God-realisation as best befits the time & place of the inhabitants and their due karma.


    THE ABOVE is in stark contrast to LSD visions of Grandeur, and, is in stark contrast to the epiphonies of the benifits dim-lighting for those Lounge-lizards looking for Mr or Mrs Goodbar.
     

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