Dancing Israeli's...

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by enlightenment, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    Okay, so you are sure that it IS an 'amateur hate hack job', right?

    Now you have made clear your position, can you prove it?

    Truly, if you can, I would be delighted. I am seeking an expose, perhaps a counter story which showed it all to be fake, the names of the people in the footage who turned out to be actors, that sort of thing.

    And, while you are at it, perhaps you can expose this as yet another piece of fake news designed only to undermine poor Israel?

    ‘Mossad assassination squad used British passports’ - contains video


    Six suspects in the assassination of a senior Hamas official in Dubai entered the country using British passports, it emerged yesterday.
    Police in the Gulf state announced that they were hunting for 11 suspects, including a woman, for the murder of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, a top Hamas commander, who was found dead in his Dubai hotel room on January 20.

    Six of these suspects were travelling on British passports and three were carrying Irish passports, including the woman. The other two entered Dubai with German and French passports.
     
  2. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    The burden of proof is actually the other way around. The video could end with Barney the Dinosaur singing "I did it", but that doesn't mean to say we have to "prove" that Barney didn't do it when it's obviously a poorly edited piece of video - which it is anyway.

    Instead, the video needs to justify its claim that the ending shows Mossad agents on TV admitting to being prewarned of 9/11. If that were true, no doubt it would have hit the mainstream media as a major story (sales still rule in media, you know).

    [You mention the other old stary about Mossad agents using fake passports - as is clear, Mossad don't tend to go on TV to discuss their work, making the above even more questionable]

    However, the fact that the video is clearly garbled and confused in its claims make it impossible to take seriously. I mean, for starters, it claims the Israelis were just spies, then claims they were driving around New York with a massive bomb before being stopped by police. Then it claims they were just there to record it. Which claim is it making?

    I would credit you with enough intelligence to be able to question this, otherwise it comes across as questioning our intelligence with improbable claims promoting a "Jews control the world" conspiracy.
     
  3. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    I DO question it, which is precisely why I have made no conclusions.

    I guess I am just so cynical(toward Gov's), that it wouldn't surprise me if there were some truth to it, however, if there is NONE, then fine, I would like it to be exposed as a fake video, with the three gentleman exposed as actors or some such thing. So far, I have no been able to do so.

    I welcome anyone who can.
     
  4. bananabrain

    bananabrain awkward squadnik

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    and i think her position is based on a certain amount of bias, but she's entitled to it, just as you are entitled to yours in this case - you don't like israel, you want to boycott it, go ahead, be my guest, like it's going to make any difference except to your own view of yourself. if you really wanted to help palestinians you'd support more reasonable positions and possibly donate to financially transparent and properly audited NGOs that are building civil and democratic institutions, rather than perpetuating the cycle of dependency and unrealistic posturing. in fact, come to think of it, you should also donate to israeli organisations like peace now or the new israel fund which are trying to push the closest agenda that isn't completely mad and unworkable to your point of view.

    nope - this is real as far as i'm concerned - and good riddance to a terrorist and well done to mossad. as for the fake passports, that is the way of the world when it comes to clandestine operations, as is hiding behind national sovereignty, diplomatic immunity and the like - in fact, as israelis aren't allowed in dubai, nor is anyone with an israeli stamp in their passport (which effectively prohibits jews from entering), i hardly see how they could have done otherwise. i don't know if they intended to be exposed in order to send a message, or they just bungled it, but either way i don't see how it undermines israel to assassinate a ******* like that.

    as for the video - what brian said, end of. i think you've wasted enough time on this.

    bananabrain
     
  5. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    So you are celebrating murder, is that right?

    I take pleasure in the killing of NO ONE.

    You do.

    Well done.

    I also doubt that many Brits would be supportive of your position, were it their identity being used.
     
  6. bananabrain

    bananabrain awkward squadnik

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    i applaud the targeted assassination of someone who had a lot of blood on his hands and was planning the murder of many more and would cheerfully kill me and my family, yes. i take no "pleasure" in it; indeed, i regret that such activity is considered necessary, but if you think there's a state on the planet that wouldn't do the same, you are deluded. feel as superior as you like, but that's just narcissism - you sit here in the uk (scotland, wasn't it?) safe in the knowledge that there is nobody likely to creep into your house at night and stab your children as they sleep.

    well done.

    *BUZZ!* is that a hint of the "dual loyalties" trope there? i think i can give you 5 points on the protocolometer for that.

    bananabrain
     
  7. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    Look - PLEASE stop this protocols BS, okay?

    All I am saying is that if you asked British citizens about Mossad using their identity/passports, the majority would oppose the action.

    WTF does that have to do with the BS Protocols Of The Elders of Zion?

    Don't the rules of this forum also apply to you?
     
  8. bananabrain

    bananabrain awkward squadnik

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    if you asked british citizens about M16, or the CIA, or the secret services of any country in the world using their identity or passports, the majority would oppose the action. if that's what you're saying, then i'll strike those points. this incident happens to be a mossad operation, true, but one could argue that the fact that this is now public knowledge has in fact enabled the citizens involved to escape any
    opprobrium, as nobody (even conspiracy theorists) can maintain that the passport-holders are really the people responsible. to be honest, if you asked the majority of citizens in the world about the sort of things that secret services do, they would oppose them. nobody wants to be bugged, or have their documents read, or have background checks run on them, or assassinated - there is a reason that secret services are secret, which is that most of what they do is illegal in the countries in which they operate, even though everyone knows it happens, that the chinese flower-arranging attaché or whoever is really collecting intelligence on dissidents and paying hackers to find holes in corporate firewalls etc. i quite simply don't see what your point is unless you are trying to maintain that there is something uniquely immoral about how mossad operates, which i don't think you can possibly argue with any degree of intellectual honesty.

    if you don't understand that, then maybe you need to read something about anti-semitism - i can recommend anthony julius' work if you're interested. culture-based references to anything controversial, not just ours, is a minefield of connotations, as you'll find if you ever try and make a joke about racism in america; i recommend you watch chris rock's routine about whether white people can ever get away with using the "n-word" compared to black people. what i can easily explain is that racist tropes are recurring themes (and i know you know something about this because you mentioned some in a non-racist way when you were making points about the language bob was talking about palestinians) and that people to whom these tropes apply tend to be particularly good at spotting them, again, not just us.

    i don't think you understand the rules of this forum - but i can assure you that they are being monitored extremely carefully at the moment.

    bananabrain
     
  9. bob x

    bob x New Member

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    Of course it is. I would be interested to see what you consider to be a "slur" against you.
    The Tamils committed more atrocities than the Palestinians, and the Hutus set the speed-record for amassing a large corpse-count quickly; but while the Tamils made some trouble in Canada, and Hutu militias still rampage in the Congo, there is no group, especially not the Israelis, which has come anywhere remotely close to the Palestinians for spreading sorrow all over the planet. It is what they are chiefly known for-- among most people, it is the only thing they are known for. The Israelis, by contrast, are also known for contributions to technology, agriculture, and literature.
    The Israelis and Palestinians in 1950 were starting from equally difficult circumstances, coping with huge influxes of refugees who had nothing but the shirts on their backs (Israel remembers those days as the "austerity period", when just building houses fast enough was as much as the government could do). It is certainly not any "racial" traits which account for why one group developed an economy while the other did not: the Jewish diaspora worldwide funded economic development, while the Arabs have only been willing to contribute to the Palestinians' continued "armed struggle" and maintenance of them in dismal camps. But there was also a conscious choice on the part of the Palestinians to devote their main energies to continuing to re-fight the war they had already lost.
    *shrug* their kayaks, parkas, and scrimshaw are widely valued and copied.
    I keep on repeating, but seem to have a hard time getting this point through: I was never talking about the relative merits of Israelis and Palestinians as human beings; my initial remark to MW came in the context of explaining that Jews have allies because they have made contributions, so that people owe them gratitude and friendship. The Inuit (they consider "Eskimos" a slur) have made relatively minor contributions, being a small and isolated ethnicity; this does not mean they are "lesser" people, but it does mean that they would have been extraordinarily foolish to try to resolve their complaints about how they used to be treated by declaring war on all Canadians, blowing up Canadian airliners and bashing in the skulls of Canadian preschoolers at random, and occasionally killing people from the US or UK for being of Anglo-Saxon ancestry. They have been granted substantial self-governance, precisely because they have NOT behaved in such a manner.
     
  10. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    All due respect to you for that response, Bob, and there are various points I would ordinarily love to address, however, owing to recent events, I do not believe I would be able to answer you freely, on this particular thread.

    Sorry

    :(
     
  11. bob x

    bob x New Member

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    Well, I'm getting a bit weary of arguing Israel/Palestine around and around; it never goes anywhere, so how about we give it a rest for a while?
     
  12. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    Snap - Just said same thing, on another thread :)
     
  13. Muslimwoman

    Muslimwoman Coexistence insha'Allah

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    I beg your pardon ... militant!!!!

    The word militant, which is both an adjective and a noun, essentially means 'to be open to using violence to achieve an end'

    I do not buy Israeli goods because I do not agree with their political policies, so will not financially assist them to become stronger economically and therefore militarily .... a far cry from supporting violence don't you think :mad:

    My position is based on my distaste of Israeli political policy, nothing more. When it changes it's policies my shopping policies will change. ;)
     

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