Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Victor, Mar 4, 2011.
and those people are called $cientologists.
rofl, Pepto is my friend ...
Those I figure are just pretty much cultists. About as harmful as CFSM adherents ...
But part of spirit and growth anyway?
"Therefore we really do have the remedy before the assault weapon is produced. Did you ever read poor old George Orwell's uh.. 1984? Yes, yes, that's wonderful. That would be, could be, the palest imagined shadow of what a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with no remedy in existence."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Philadelphia Doctorate Course Tape 20
take it as you will.
I see that what is happening is the same that has been happening for billions of years, as far as "earthquakes" are concerned.
The precessional cycle is a scientific fact, as accepted by astronomers much much longer ago than "100 years". But every point on the circle is really the same as every other; dividing it up into twelve chunks is totally arbitrary. In India they preferred to divide it into 28 pieces. There is nothing magical about any particular choice of dividing lines.
By WHAT individual? A "World Teacher" that hardly anybody in the world has ever heard of has not been doing much of a job.
We need LESS faith.
Yes, that's pretty much what all this amounts to. That's why, detractors and skeptics, along with adherents and faithful supporters alike ... the Wheel [being sort of a shorthand for `the Divine Plan'] is as it is. It is cyclical, and we do not escape it, any of us here, for several more iterations. I think it's safe to say most of us here will incarnate 3 or 4 more times, at minimum, during the Aquarian Era.
It looks like a lot of folks here really won't be interested in discussing such ideas (even from the imagined point of view) of participants in an Orderly, Purposeful Cosmos [governed, of necessity, by Intelligent, Compassionate Beings]. On the other hand, I have a hard time imagining it any other way. There are sometimes very elementary, building concepts [foundational ideas?] ... without which not much else past a certain point can be considered.
Indeed, much of what we see in the world today has always existed. Earthquakes are nothing new, nor is the precessional cycle. There are many dozens of cycles that govern the incoming and outgoing of energies affecting our planet. These energies are, some of them, interplanetary in nature, others Solar ... while a few are Cosmic. These latter are of course, stepped down in order to reach our globe safely. And plenty of the Solar/Planetary energies and forces with which we are dealing only reach us via intermediating agencies, as well.
What is different about our world today as compared with say, the Atlantean Era, is that there are far more members of an Intelligentsia present and in incarnation, all capable of receiving and manipulating these various Forces and energies ... and whether these individuals are atheists or religious, or shall we say, active along secular & humanistic vs. religious & spiritual lines, often does not matter. It is, as you say, wil, all part of a learning experience.
Now those who shut themselves out from a more direct contact with or experience of ~ what's going on in the world ~ do not escape from the impact, or from some degree of responsibility. But, one might remember just how much Christ Jesus got accomplished when he returned to Nazareth during his ministry. The bob x's of this little town had no faith in him or his abilities, and - expecting nothing from him - that is what they received.
This ties in directly with another thread regarding out of body or near death experiences ... and Christians. While a Buddhist might experience the Bardo in precisely the described series and order and panorama of lights, colors & sounds indicated by the Thodol ... so the Christian isn't surprised to witness JESUS! Each has most likely either encountered the Soul, to greater or lesser degree, or some representative thereof. Yet due to our conditioning, including expectations even upon/within the deepest layers of our psyche, we can shape and filter the type of NDE/OBE we have quite significantly.
So what we have here, is a case of rose-colored glasses. Some expect nothing as Pisces shifts to Aquarius. In fact, these will even go so far as to deny that such Heavenly Order [which is far more objective than they realize] even exists. Others will recognize something going on, but tend to interpret it based on precisely what they have been taught to believe, or not to believe. And then another group will say, "Sure, there are things occurring, but it's all in what you make of it" ... which is pretty much a relativistic, subjectivist position.
Naturally I have my take, my interpretation and a list of reasons for why it is what and as it is. Those who see more or less eye to eye with me are most likely to come from a Theosophical background, possibly with studies of Alice Bailey, maybe having some experience and familiarity with modern esoteric meditation, study and service groups. These all, in the Ageless Wisdom Tradition, pretty much agree that there are unquestionably both birth pangs occurring today, plus the banding together of those groups and forces - both on the physical plane and in the subtle world - who oppose progress and growth. This opposition, unfortunately, is intelligently organized ... and in the material world it even has the potential to derail the progress of the Forces of Love and Light.
Now for those who dismiss all or most of this out of hand, or who appeal to the Power of God/Good to overcome all resistance and opposition, it's a closed case and nothing more need be said. For those a little more tuned in to the idea of subjectivity, however, everything that I'm saying can be registered as simply, naturally and obviously as we would look up in the sky, see thunderclouds and conclude that it may very well rain soon.
One Mahatma was quoted as saying, "A few raindrops does not a monsoon make ... but they may presage it."
A word to the Wise ...
Meanwhile, bash-bash-bash, because for some, this is all they know, it's how they get their jollies off, they know of no better way to contribute, their tendency is to lash out against everything they see which even suggests that Underlying, Divine ORDER, Balance, Harmony and Rhythm seeking to establish and assert itself in the world at this time ...
... and quite frankly, they are incapable of disentangling anything like a message, or an objectivity behind anything I am saying, from personality.
Well, what's to be said about that? You have my face now to go with my rambling, occasionally ranting posts ... and you have my honesty to go with whatever I decide to share. Why on EARTH would I choose to be underhanded about such a matter as the fate of the world - even as we know it.
Yes, it IS the end of the world as we know it; I feel quite fine, inasmuch as I know my Bro' wil here understands it quite well. I wish the rest of us WOULD get on board, since we all could if we chose ... but one thing we don't need any more of are `sheep.'
So bob x, I do agree with you if that's what you mean ... yet I argue that each and every one of us is on a path of our own, a Journey of self-discovery, and of other-self-discovery, and also of God-Self- or Divine-Self-Discovery ... and all of these are not mutually exclusive, by any means. The Greater, it has been said, always includes the lesser. Thus, our globe rotates, and a day is done. Seven of these form one quarter of a lunar cycle - or a moon phase. Two such phases are waxing and thus within these we have productive, growth-related affective energies ... then there are two waning lunar phases, related to harvesting, as every farmer knows quite well.
Thirteen such lunar cycles form a SOLAR Year, being a period of ~360 days, although this period has extended over time to now be a little more than 365. The implication is obvious, for those who remember how many degrees there are in a circle, this being the ~shape of a planet's orbit in the heavens. There are TWELVE Lunar Zodiacal signs in Western Astrology, although there is always some sign with repetition in it [two full moons]. Our Zodiac once consisted of 13 signs, if I recall correctly, yet it will one day have as few as 9 [again, I mention that from memory; I'm not quite certain].
Yes, there were 10 or 12 tribes of Ancient Israel, plus Twelve Apostles ... and also there are TWELVES Schemes of Evolution spoken of in esoteric astrology: Vulcan, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune, a missing scheme between Mars & Saturn, the Sun, plus one other. I may have these wrong, but that's the general idea. Humans did not invent these globes; nor did we invent the 12-sign Zodiac, or these various correlations. But were the Apostles chosen to reflect and embody such Heavenly arrangements? You better believe it. Okay, don't believe it ... but - whatever.
Our 365 day, 13 month year actually begins in MARCH, as plenty of folks know, and this is even reflected to this day in our Calendar. Anyone here know much Latin? Mars begins the cycle, corresponding with the obvious Planet, and there is astrological correspondence with all of the months and planets ... yet when we get to September we are not actually in the ninth month at all. It is the SEVENth, as the word still indicates.
Following that, we have DECEmber, the tenth month. Strange, how our calendar is skewed, while yet the trees and flowers still understand when it is time to START the new year and bud and bloom, and begin again the cycle of Renewal. This, celebrated by the Christians as Easter, might more appropriately be swapped with CHRISTMAS, if we're going to focus on the Birth of the Christ child ... although there are other, obvious reasons [just mentioned] why this time of the year is appropriate for signifying and celebrating RENEWAL.
This, of course, shows that these themes far antedate the Christian religion, focused on Jesus ... but if we accept Christ as the SUN GOD, and especially if we then consider the Appearance of this God at the dawn or inauguration of every New Age, everything falls perfectly into place. We progress through the Zodiac in reverse order [okay, okay, things are slightly out of whack] ... and therefore, even while our lunar cycle moves from Capricorn, to Aquarius, to Pisces to Aries and finally Taurus, Christ nonetheless appears at the start of PISCES, only to remind us to be on the lookout for Him in AQUARIUS. This is mentioned in the Bible, and it reflects the Grand Zodiac in the Heavens, as our Sun moves slowly from sign to sign [the same cycle, mirrored in reverse, into the lunar].
Going back a little bit, we notice Moses meeting with God in the age of Aries, yet when he descended the Mount to bring his new revelation and covenant to the Israelites, lo and behold, they had reverted to the previous sign, TAURUS, the BULL. That's umm, no bull, as we can clearly see the Christ, or Promised LAMB [Ram], come to fulfil His role of Messiah for the Jewish people in Pisces ... although things didn't quite work out. And Jesus can be understood as weeping, and even asking that "this cup be taken away," as he witnessed that once again they were gonna reject the proffered leadership.
Ah well, Pisces progresses into Aquarius. The calendar is screwed up. The world isn't quite perfect yet, either. And sure, you can write off all the earthquakes and tsunamis as just natural disasters [I love it how people so readily and artificially divide the world from natural into Divine, or are careful to separate out the HUMAN element from `the natural,' apparently forgetting - for the Deists and Theists among us that "the Lord God made us/it all"]. But you know, in my book, this just don't ring true.
In other words, while I don't buy such a simplistic analysis as, "Oh, these people here are dying from AIDS; therefore, God hates queers and `He's' just showing all you people," I do on the other hand believe that what goes around, comes around ... and I think we literally affect, if not quite determine, the way that we exist in cooperation & Harmony [or lack thereof] with our natural environment.
In short, if we screw up the planet, the planet will [through Intelligent Guidance and direction, certainly] do what is necessary in order to balance out, and bounce back, so to speak, from the imbalance that we have created. And this has always been fine or adequate, hitherto, although we can really only speak of destruction by fire, in the case of Lemuria, and destruction by water, in the case of Atlantis [`Flood Myth,' as evidenced in the Popol Vuh, Hebrew, Chaldean and Greek traditions, etc.].
This cycle, Humanity and the globe have come a long way together, and though it's only been perhaps a million years since the pinnacle of Atlantean development [even ~12K years or fewer since the last stages of the Ice Age] ... we are - as some folks are well aware - quite literally on the brink. Either this brink becomes the last few struggles and quiverings as we shake off our childish, selfish and unsustainable habits [which bar the way to Peaceful Co-Existence] ... or we must learn the hard way.
If you think wearing a sandwich sign and preaching doom & gloom is the way to go, then by all means, do what feels right. My argument is that, in fact, our progress is pretty much like clockwork in a non-Deistic Universe, and that we have finally reached a point where becoming [literal] Co-Creators with the Divine ... is not just a handy phrase to be tossed around by New-Agers. It is an apt description of the Invitation being issued, from `God/Soul/our Higher Power' to every citizen of our planet today. This goes for folks out of incarnation, too, as all 60 billion human Souls, and all 120 billion Deva units, can cooperate and literally begin to create the Heaven on Earth which Christ (and others) came to show us.
To quote a mentor of mine: Argue for your limitations ... and they're yours.
Whether it was Gandhi, John the Baptist or Rubin Carter, you can try and restrict a man, even put him in prison, in the dark, with shackles ... yet you cannot put out the Light that is within him. You cannot extinguish the Light and the Love which, once kindled within his heart, will grow into a mighty blaze ... eventually shining for all the world to see.
This is an Upanishad, I believe, and to some, it is simply a way of life.
I will tell you why I believe what I believe, be it about you and me, or about God, or about the zodiac. I know squat about astrology, but I can tell you WHY I believe what I believe.
Can you do this? Will you do this?
And when it comes to your limitations, are you proud of them?
How hard, and how long, will you argue for them?
You see there, I didn't even need any Pepto. Just an opportunity to realize that the ground isn't quite moving under my feet ... the way it sometimes does.
Let's see what tomorrow brings.
And yet when i suggest that celestial movement is natural, you respond with three consecutive posts that do nothing but bash.
You suggested that I have my head up my ass ... said I was genuinely ignorant ... quasi-minded ... that I make you sick, puke sick ... that I disgust you ... that I was merely heckling ... that I should join the thought police ... all with the delicacy of a barking drill sergeant in a bad mood.
So please, the next time you'd like to shed a few crocodile tears over the incivility of debate and complain about people who get their jollies off bashing others, I'd suggest you take a good look in the mirror.
What do you see in that mirror, Andrew?
What do you see?
ROFL ... did I say that celestial movement was not natural?
Yeah, I get in a bad mood sometimes.
I see a pretty friendly bloke in the mirror, citizenzen. Sometimes it's a little challenging to remain that way, however, when the BS and mud goes flying by. Pardon me if my zen moves aren't as polished as they could be.
There are times when I can dodge the crap. Other times, I may catch a little bit of it in the eye, and it makes me wince ... or it hits me in the corner of the lip, and yeah, it doesn't taste too good.
Next time I see you spit in the wind, I will try and do a better job of ducking.
All good pilots can avoid windage and FOD...First thing they do is clear their "Tarmac" of such, before take off...
Moving on ...
I was not familiar with this concept, so I did a little exploration and eventually ran across something known to as the "Photon Belt".
Is this what you're talking about Andrew?
The center of the galaxy is actually in the direction of Sagittarius.
Correct, this is the center of our Galaxy ... and, as at the center of all galaxies, this refers to a supermassive black hole. The one in the Milky Way is said to not currently be `active.'
As for the photon belt, I had to Wiki it. Although I see some discussion of Alcyone and the Pleiades, I do not know how much of this might be accurate. My understanding comes from the teachings of DK/AAB [Alice Bailey], and I would not be surprised if the same concept exists in The Secret Doctrine [H.P. Blavatsky]. I assume the latter to be the case, but I would have to look.
Job, in the Christian Bible, refers to the Pleiades ... so I don't find it at all surprising that Alice Bailey or HPB would do so, more than 2000 years later. I'm sure other authors have done so in between. Yes, many folks discount what the Prophets have had to say out of hand, but I prefer to study these various writings seriously. I believe that these authors knew what they were talking about. I believe in their gnosis ... and I believe that mine, after a fashion, may not be so far off.
More than that, I cannot say. I mean, why not make inquiry into the subject if it is of genuine interest? There is a great deal said about Alcyone and the Pleiades in Alice Bailey's books. And there is plenty of discussion about this on the web, and in commentaries written by a host of authors familiar with this tradition. I accept the subject as being firmly rooted and completely approachable in an objective scientific fashion ... but I do understand that I may be the only one at IO who does so!
As for the specifics of us passing into the photon belt, I happened to stumble upon some of what Barbara Hand Clow (?) had to say about the subject [see Wiki] ... maybe a couple months back. I got the basic idea, and have no knowledge as to whether or to what extent this correlates with what else I've read. It sounds a little pseudo-scientific to me, I must admit. There's just no reason to reject it out of hand, however, so I kind of put that stuff on the back burner until I can make more sense of it.
Believing what random authors or people on the web tell you or what sounds nice inside your own head is not being either "objective" or "scientific".
That depends entirely on what prophets you're referring to and what they had to say. History is littered with false prophets, people who took advantage of others thirst for gnosis.
Skepticism isn't born out of the desire to refuse all matters spiritual. It is born out of the desire to filter out the myth, misunderstanding and mischief that has plagued mankind's understanding of both the natural and supernatural to this very day.
There are many proclaimed prophets. They come from hundreds of different belief systems and mythological bases.
One must be sceptical about all prophesies because they tend to conflict with those of other religions. They all cannot be right. We hear prophets predict the end of the world only to be proven wrong when that date passes. In such cases, I believe that the prophet is likely delusional and hallucinatory.
Those who believe in prophesies often spin events quite extremely to make the events fit the prophesy. Christian fundamentalists have made NATO, the EU, the Common Market and other random collections of nations into the ten-horned beast of the very psychotic Book of Revelations.
The cleverest prophesies are those like the Book of Daniel, which he claimed to have been written about 600 BCE. Actually it was written about 145 BCE by a man who really reported historical events such as kings, empires like the Babylonian, Persian, Alexandrian/Seleucid, Ptolemaic and Syrian/Seleucid with a notation of the approaching western empire. That prediction of the western empire was obvious after the Romans dealt a stunning defeat of the Greeks and the Seleucid Kingdom.
The author of Daniel simply pretended to be a man of the Babylonian exile. He then used his knowledge of past history from 600 BCE to 145 BCE to present them as prophesies made in 600 BCE. Scholars have shown the use of anachronisms and the fact that Daniel's knowledge of the remote past was less detailed than the 2nd Century BCE. One would expect the opposite if one were living in 600 BCE where his knowledge would be extensive, and less detailed 400 years in the future.
If I were to fake a prophesy made in 1066 CE in my country, I would mention William the Conqueror, Malcolm III of Scotland, Harold but not very detailed. I would probably have more knowledge of the Tudor Dynasty, Elizabeth I, Charles Stuart, Oliver Cromwell, and William of Orange.
My knowledge of the reign of abdicated King Edward VIII, King George VI, Elizabeth II, Winston Churchill, and PM's Gordon and Cameron would be very accurate because I actually see them on telly. The Book of Amergin would be much like the Book of Daniel. It would be vague in the time I supposedly wrote it but highly accurate a 1000 years in the future of the UK.
Many psychics predict hundreds of next year's events, and at the end of next year, reporters will comment on five seemingly accurate predictions. They would not comment on the 95 wrong guesses.
The other good prophesies are those made by people in order to fulfil an old prophesy. Jesus said that and tried to do that. I can predict that tomorrow, I will get a 16 oz Mocha Latte before mounting the train in Aberdeen to Inverness. I do not usually do that. If I purchase the Latte deliberately to fulfil my own prophesy, and ride the train all the way to Inverness instead of debarking at Nairn. Wow, my prophesy was right
Correct; one must rely on the Intuition, the Buddhic faculty ... and viveka. Wouldn't you agree?
It's hard to agree to something I'm not familiar with.
Perhaps you could define these concepts as you understand them, and then we'll see.
That has nothing to do with being "objective" or "scientific": if you actually despise what is done by science, why do you pretend to honor it?
Separate names with a comma.