Aisha r.a. and Her Marriage--Part Two

Discussion in 'Islam' started by Amica, Aug 2, 2011.

  1. Amica

    Amica Well-Known Member

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    Hadiths have many accounts that beat the logic and contradict the Holy Qur'an. In such a state, one then has reason to doubt many of its stories. Some examples of Hadiths that are rather strange if looked at from the perspective of the Holy Qur'an are:

    1) Al Quran talks of itself as being the only message that God SWT intended the prophet pbuh to convey (Quran 42:52, 14:52;69:44;6:19 etc.). The Hadith of Muslim quotes the prophet as saying (Muslim, Zuhd 72, Hanbel 3/12,21,39) that no one should write anything from him other than Al Quran. This particular Hadith is in harmony with Al Quran, but then another Hadith contradicts not only Al Quran but this Hadith:
    The prophet pbuh is quoted as asking, in Hanbel 2/162, Amr bin As, his companion to write everything he spoke.

    2) Private relations between husband and wife must be kept secret, as stated in the following Hadith: “The worst in position of all people in the estimation of Allah on the Day of Resurrection will be the man who cohabits with his wife or the woman who cohabits with her husband, then either of them divulges the secret of his mate.” (Muslim)

    Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 5: Narrated 'Ata: We presented ourselves along with Ibn 'Abbas at the funeral procession of Maimuna at a place called Sarif. Ibn 'Abbas said, "This is the wife of the Prophet so when you lift her bier, do not Jerk it or shake it much, but walk smoothly because the Prophet had nine wives and he used to observe the night turns with eight of them, and for one of them there was no night turn."

    Then why did Aisha r.a. divulge when her marriage was consumated? Or how did Muslims come up with the information in other hadiths about Prophet Muhammad pbuh having sex with his wives in one hour and having virility of 30 men? How did they know that for one of them there was no "turn"?

    3) The punishment for adultery in the Quran is given in 24:2 and it is 100 lashes--not death. However, the hadith, gives a punishment of stoning to death for adultery:
    Moslim Book 17, Number 4192:
    'Ubada b. as-Samit reported that Allah's Apostle said that the punishment of adultery in case of married persons is one hundred lashes and then stoning (to death).

    Qur'anic commandment of lashes is further reaffirmed in Qur'anic verse where it is stated that fit in marriage for each other are adulterers and adulteresses, etc. Here it is, chapter (surah) 24, verse 3: "Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden."
    If God SWT "forgot" to mention stoning in the Qur'an, then why would this verse state this?

    4) Muslims are taught from the Qur'an to clean themselves. It is stated in the Holy Qur'an that Allah SWT loves those who clean themselves. One of the means to physically purify yourself is to wash yourself after you urinate or such. Well, one of the hadiths suggests that we drink “camel-urine” to recuperate after an illness [Hadith 590, pg.399, vol.7]

    5) Al Quran commands believers not to make any distinction between any of God’s messengers (Quran 2:285 and many other places), yet according to Bukhari’s books of Hadith (Bukhari 97/36), the prophet contradicted the Koran saying that he was the “most honorable” among all the messengers.Not only this, the books of Bukhari make the prophet even contradict himself by saying in a different Hadith (Bukhari 65/4,6 and Hanbel 1/205,242,440) that we should not make any distinction between the messengers and that he was not better than even Yunus.

    6) According to Hanbel 4/85, 5/54, the prophet ordered that all black dogs be killed because they were devils. Inspired by that Hadith so called “Muslims” kill hundreds of dogs all over the world and consider them unclean.
    Al Quran, on the other hand talks about the sleepers in the cave (sura 18) as having a dog, inside their dwelling place and allows meat killed by hunting dogs.

    7) Al Quran states that,” Vision cannot comprehend God, who comprehends all vision,” yet the Hadith of Bukhari 97/24 and 10/129 says that to prove his identity to Muhammed, God showed the prophet his thigh.

    8) Al Quran states that God is the protector of true believers, yet the Hadith states that the prophet pbuh was bewitched by a Jew and for many days, he didn’t know what he was doing (Bukhari 59/11, 76/47; Hanbel 6/57 and 4/367).

    9) Al Quran states that those who forbid things even though God has allowed them, are committing a great sin. Yet the followers of Hadith have forbidden (haraam) the use of silk and gold by men, even though Allah never forbade these in Al Quran. Contrary to that Allah specifically allows them (Quran 7:30-32, 42:21;22:23; 35:33).

    10) Here is one of Bukharis that left me speachless:
    Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:
    Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
    During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal
    sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.

    11) And another: Bukhari Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490: Narrated 'Aisha: The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman." I said, "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away, for I disliked to face him."
    And Al Qur'an states this: Who so does that which is right, and believes, whether male or female, him or her will We quicken to happy life." [16:97]
    "They (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them." [Noble Quran 2:187]

    12) And another, that I deem as an insult to Prophet pbuh: Mahmood bin Rabe narrates, “I still remember when I was five years old, the Holy Prophet rinsed his mouth and then spat the water into mine” (Bukhari Kitabul Ilm vol.2, hadith 77).

    13) An insult to Aisha r.a. and Prophet pbuh, I feel, can be seen in this next hadith: Aisha said to the Prophet ,“Ah! My head is bursting.” He said, “I wish it did.” Aisha responded: “You want me to die so that you can spend the next night with another wife” (Bukhari, Book of Medicine, vol.3).

    14) If Hadiths explain the Holy Qur'an, then which Qur'anic verse is this hadith explaining:
    Rats are the lost tribe of Israel because they drink not the camel's milk, but drink goat’s milk (Bukhari, Beginning of Creation 2:244).

    15) The Holy Qur'an prohibits men having intercourse with women when they are menstruating, but one of the hadiths says this: If the Prophet wanted to have intercourse with a menstruating wife, he ordered her to tie a loincloth even though the menstruation would be at its peak. Then he had intercourse. Whoever has concocted this hadith adds a contrary statement: Aisha said, "No one of you has as much control over his desire as the Prophet had!" (Bukhari The Book on Menstruation 1:98, chapter 207).

    16) Qur'an instructs men to be respectful of their wives. It says that there might be something about their wives which the husbands dislike but is actually good for them. Yet, hadith tells us that men can insult their wives. Worst of all, Prophet Muhammad pbuh is being insulted by the hadith as follows: The Messenger of Allah addressed his wife Safia as “O’ you bald-headed perished one!” (Bukhari, Kitab Talaq p.143).
    And Holy Qur'an says this: "And among His signs is this, that He has created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them; and He has put love and mercy between you. Verily in that are signs for those who reflect." [Noble Quran 30:21]



    So, these are but some of reasons why Hadiths should be viewed with suspicion, including its many "laws" and narratives.
     
  2. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    thanks again Amica
     
  3. WaffenHandschar

    WaffenHandschar New Member

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    This is one of the reasons why i am a Quranist.
     
  4. PluckyAli

    PluckyAli Well-Known Member

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    The Thread title and the content don't go well together.The content is solely about the Hadith denial and it should be put under correct title so as to get proper responses.
    p.ali
     
  5. Amica

    Amica Well-Known Member

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    Brother Ali, assalamu alaikum--

    See, I did not say hadiths "denial" because I personally do not deny all of the hadiths. I just question the authencity of many of them as they contradict. And Allah SWT stated that anything that contradicts itself is not from Him. Another reason why I did not write "hadith denial" is because then many Muslims who believe hadiths to be 100% of divine origin would not bother to read anything and would go into verbal offense. And I do not wish to verbally argue with anyone.
     
  6. PluckyAli

    PluckyAli Well-Known Member

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    Wasalaam, Thank you Amica for your reply and clarification of your view point.I do agree many muslims tend to take them too literally which often leads to beliefs which have little to do with the real islam or represent some extreme form of it.
    I believe if Muslims have a general consenus that hadiths are not to be taken literally but rather from a broader point of view , things could be much better.Thanks
     
  7. PluckyAli

    PluckyAli Well-Known Member

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    Saying this I still believe the thread title could somehow be aligned with the contents without significance emphasis on the denial part like "About hadiths", "are Hadiths of divine nature". XD just some random titles.
     
  8. Amica

    Amica Well-Known Member

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    I think hadith oriented title should be for another topic. :) I am sure many would be enticed to defend hadith 'divinity.' No question that hadiths sometimes have positive teachings to teach us. Hadith Qudsi are some of the most inspiring (at least the ones I have read) and many usually bring tears to my eyes. But, ultimately, nothing tops the Qur'an scriptually. I am the kind of person that believe the Noble Qur'an to be Divine Word. Any teaching that does not contradict it, I accept. Some teachings that are positive even if not mentioned in the Qur'an, I think are still accepted. After all, Allah SWT tells us to use our reason to decipher good from evil and that we will be questioned about using our minds.

    However, I cannot accept the hadiths that insult Allah SWT, Prophet Muhammad pbuh, his Companions r.a., the ones that teach hatred, sexism and such. Not only are those against the Divine Word, they are against everything that Muslims should stand for. Those kind of hadiths are the problems causing some Muslims committing crimes that are unislamic. We are supposed to be a people that are leaders in human rights, respect for women, competing in doing good with the rest of the world--not to cause evil and destruction.

    In fact, I just read a hadith that states that when Muslims' faith decreases they are subjected to trials like opression, wars, etc. Things we bring onto ourselves by not holding true to the islamic teachings. And in what kind of state are Muslims world-wide today?
     
  9. Abdullah

    Abdullah Well-Known Member

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    these distorted hadiths [or distorted meanings] are from sites that vehemently hate Islam and i'm surprised [or maybe not! :D] that Amica has not been able to distinguish such sites from genuine one's

    here is an example; the closest i've been able to find in Sahih Bukhari to anything of that despicable distortion above is as follows:

    296. It is related that 'A'isha said, "When one of us was menstruating and the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, wanted to fondle her, he would tell her to put on a waist-wrapper when she started her menstrual period and he would fondle her." She said, "Who among you would be able to control his desires as the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, controlled his?"
    Khalid and Jarir corroborated with 'Ali ibn Mishar in relating his from ash-Shaybani.

    297. It is related that Maymuna was heard to say, "When the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace,wanted to fondle one of his wives, he told her, if she was menstruating, to put on a waist-wrapper."

    The Sahih Collection of al-Bukhari - Book of Menstruation - SunniPath Library - Hadith


    Narrated 'Aisha:
    The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses). (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 298)

    Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Aswad:
    (on the authority of his father) 'Aisha said: "Whenever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle anyone of us during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an Izar and start fondling her." 'Aisha added, "None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet could." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 299; see also Number 300)

    Maimuna (the wife of the Holy Prophet) reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) contacted and embraced his wives over the waist-wrapper when they were menstruating. (Sahih Muslim, Book 003, Number 0579)


    'A'isha reported: When anyone amongst us (amongst the wives of the Holy Prophet) menstruated, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) asked her to tie a waist-wrapper over her (body) and then embraced her. (Sahih Muslim, Book 003, Number 0577)

    We read in Muslim, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 298:

    Narrated 'A'isha:
    The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to (bashr) fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses).

    http://answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Inconsistent/menstruation.htm


    it can be seen from the above that the Prophet [saw] ordered his wives to wrap their private area with clothes and then fondle/embrace other parts, and this is allowed

    the word bashr infact means to embrace/fondle, and not intercourse as the following suggests:

    "During my menses, Rasulullah (s) would 'Bashr' [have intercourse]
    with me. He would order me to tie a knot in a large cloth, after I did this he would embrace my chest"

    http://answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Inconsistent/menstruation.htm


    now if there should be such a hadith, then it's obvious that the latter statement: "...He would order me to tie a knot in a large cloth, after I did this he would embrace my chest", explains the former one as to how the Prophet [saw] would bashr [fondle] her

    and the reason why such intimate details are talked of in hadith is because the Prophet [saw] and his companions are the teachers of this religion; they have to explain everything in a detailed way so their followers know what they can exactly do and what they cannot!

    it is one thing to 'inform' so as to teach, and another to 'divulge' things of one's private life!

    Peace! :)
     
  10. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    @Abdullah

    I have to laugh, he has 9 wives, yet that he put a cloth over one while she menstruated so he could still enjoy her, this is controlling the desires? I am not saying it is a good thing, but there are people who remain celibate their entire lives, Muhammad pbuh cannot skip a few days when his wives are menstruating? It is not a criteria for enlightenment that you restrain sexual impulse - although this seeming to be a scheduled thing is suspect - but to say he is controlling them is humorous.

    I love the Quran and I love Muhammad - especially for bringing Sufism into the world - but I do not see how your "correction" paints the Prophet any better than the original distortion.
     
  11. Amica

    Amica Well-Known Member

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  12. Abdullah

    Abdullah Well-Known Member

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    there are a few points that woul apply here

    1, the wives should be treated equally, thus if it is time to spend time with a particular wife, one cannot forgo her right just because she is menstruating, but since love is a thing of the heart and thus not allways under one's control, if a persons heart is inclined towards one particular wife a little more than others, then he can spend a little extra time with her provided he gets the permission of the other wives

    2, the prophet [saw] done a lot of things to set the example, for example he usually sat down and drank water, but he sometimes stood and drank to to show that this is allowed; same with urinating; he usually sat down [with legs bent and crouched position] and urinated, but sometimes stood and done it too to set the example

    and 3 is, if Allah makes something allowed, there is no need to uneccasarily refrain while one could be enjoying in a halaal way and this type of enjoyment is not only that but sharing of love too and they are both benificial for both

    4, the Prophet [saw] was the perfect man; thus his virility was higher than the average joe, but yet he never commited a single sin regarding lust and kept all enjoyment of it within the permitted
     
  13. Abdullah

    Abdullah Well-Known Member

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    5. intimacy between husband and wife is considered 'worship' too in Islam, i.e, they both obey Allah in keeping it within halaal boundaries

    also there is great benifit in it in that it strengthens love between couples and it softens the heart; for this reason it is said that the pious elders loved this act, thus in Islam, cuddling up and the likes is not something to abstain from; there is more benifit in it than not
     
  14. Amica

    Amica Well-Known Member

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    Salaam brother Abdullah,

    I respect your opinions, and your feedback. When Muslims discuss women, marriage and relationship issues, this is what I have noticed:

    1. Qur'an is emphasized as a guideline for rules about relationships with women, and women's statues in Islam.
    2. On the ground, there are extra rules that apply to women that are NOT from Qur'an, but rather the hadith.
    3. Muslims are perceived as doing everything in the name of Allah SWT (as in deed we should), EVEN with the bad things (as we must not!)

    Because of #2 and #3 above, I feel that non-Muslims ignore our preaching of #1.
    I think what is needed is that the non-Qur'anic rules that some Muslims practice should be revised and/or eliminated in order to abide by the Qur'an. And, all Muslims MUST reject publically that bad deeds are NOT done in the Name of Allah SWT, as Allah SWT commands us to do good and forbid evil. "Honor" murders, forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist (as just happened in Morroco and the girl ended up commiting suicide) are just some examples of non-Qur'anic practices that we must eliminate from Muslim societies. Until then, those who hate Islam and Muslims, as well as those who are horrible representers of the Ummah, are going to contribute to our struggles in this world.
     
  15. Abdullah

    Abdullah Well-Known Member

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    wa alaykum Amica

    Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world Sister; there are many non-Muslims converting to Islam around the globe, thus we dont need to compromise our religion to attract them towards it, and if we compromise it by ignoring hadith, then it is not Islam we'll be attracting them to, and this would be of no benifit to them; there is no salvation in converting to a compromised religion anyway

    if you believe in the Quran, then what about verses that say non-muslims [ofcourse not all of them] hate Islam for what it is, and not because any bad practices of muslims; the prophet [saw] and the sahabah did not do any 'bad' practices Sis, but yet the hatred of non-muslims was even greater back then, so let him who wants to hate, hate, that should not bother us sis, thus lets not worry about non-muslims hating and focus on making Allah happy

    Peace :)
     
  16. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    if thats true it is because Muslims are breeding, the mosques are not full of converts far from it.
     
  17. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    I dont have a problem with peaceful islam. Scripture is written in a language and if you interpret it with a carnal mind you come out with an interpretation that is in opposition to god. I have seen this in islam. If they are practicing peaceful islam I agree with it. An example is a beheading. It means to remove the carnal mind and put on the divine mind. It doesnt mean to actually chop someones head off and take their life. Thou shalt not murder. Can you see where I am going with this? There is true islam which is correct interpretation and false islam. I have yet to see a movement for true islam. Where is that one. The one that stands up for peace?
     
  18. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    mmm but mohamed the founder of islam sanctioned beheadings this is historical fact look up the battle of basra.
     
  19. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    Well guess at the time he wasnt in touch with his divine self.
     
  20. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    It is evil to harm people and say your doing it for god. GOD doesnt harm life thats the whole point. He has laws like thou shalt not murder. Beheadings are murder no matter what the reason behind them are. Now a holy beheading refers to education to change the mind of someone so thta they remove the old way of thinking and put of a divine mind which would cause them NOT to murder. To me anything other than this would be an infindel.
     

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