Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heaven?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by donnann, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    Which is basically the definition of enlightenment, except that it isn't an incarnation, it is a descending of the divine along with an ascension of the human. The result of that meeting can be called a Manifestation of God...
     
  2. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    Jesus did not walk among men?

    The problem is that theologians are not enlightened themselves, so their words are essentially a nonsense. For me, man ought to collect text from legitimately enlightened people and learn from them all, not pick one and read all the commentary available on him.
     
  3. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    2
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    what makes anyone think He (Yeshua the Nazarene) WAS incarnated (OP definition: a heavenly being sent into the human body for the purpose, a mission of sorts from GOD to help humanity in some way.), in the first place?
     
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,611
    Likes Received:
    2,049
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    Quite.

    Which? You can't have both without reducing the terms to nothing.

    Quiote.

    The point then is, definitions are really important. Either words meaning something, or they are just noise ...

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  5. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,666
    Likes Received:
    142
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    A problem with this question for Baha'is is that we don't see Jesus as a "heavenly being".. Jesus was a Prophet of God a Manifestation of God.. He is not God incarnate..We do not feel that God physically incarnated Himself, rather He a Manifestation of God...The Light of God in Him. So were there other Manifestations? In our view yes indeed.. We include Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah/
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,885
    Likes Received:
    1,972
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    And how I love the noise!
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,611
    Likes Received:
    2,049
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    I do smile when people assume that things they don't understand are necessarily illogical because they don't understand them ...

    Ah, the 'what came before God' question.

    Your question comes from what you would describe as an unenlightened dualist outlook.

    There is no 'before' or 'after' in God, nor was there a 'before' or 'after' this Cosmos ... so the question doesn't apply.

    The one question science will never be able to answer is 'why is there anything at all?'

    For myself, I have an answer that suits me, that is reasonable, rational, and logical, being founded on my understanding of the Blessed Trinity ... suffice to say therefore, I could not begin to begin explaining that to you" for reasons that are evident from prior discussion — you're asking for the meat when you're not weaned off the milk, and you can't even digest that!

    I don't know what definition of deity you're assuming, but mine places the divine outside of any spatiotemporal condition ...

     
  8. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes Received:
    2
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    Craaackle hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis POP! SNAPPPPPP!
     
  9. bob x

    bob x New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    1
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    What letter->number codings are you using here?
     
  10. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    2
  11. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    You have mistaken logic and understanding... I understand fine, and thus know it cannot be distilled into logical form with anything resembling accuracy. It is just your mind making sense in its limited way, and thus your understanding is going to be limited.

    Yet the Son has been begotten by the Father, both are one God though... explain.

    Why is this answer necessary at all to arrive at? It is impossible to know for certain, and more to the point, it is irrelevant to anything meaningful on the spiritual path.

    Then your God is even less infinite...


    Well then it seems even the Christians cannot answer why everything has occurred, except for a being with no beginning suddenly saying a word for no apparent reason. In the Bible is says he wished to be loved, but why if he was already content? If he was not content, I would recommend your God send for Buddha to come and help him.

    You do not understand, I know God, I can make the same statement Jesus has made "I and God are one". In reality, this statement merely shows your own lack of ability to answer.

    lol... so now you're telling us monkeys think? How will they ask the question without language?

    This for me appears to be an admittance that you actually know nothing at all outside what your organization has provided.

    It is of course part of the draw of Christianity, you get to be utterly lazy. You simply do your obligation to humanity and you think this gets you into heaven, it is what you should be doing anyway to show gratitude for the life you have been given but you want a reward for it - they provide infinite pleasure in heaven. In return, you don't actually have to do anything, you do not even believe you have the potential to be another Christ within you. He has already done everything necessary, why see your own potential first hand?

    There is no other faith which is so utterly removed from the very foundation of religion: mysticism, the core to every faith. You have successfully gotten rid of the mystic groups that sprung up around Christ, so now the Vatican is free to enslave human kind and they did a very good job of that for some 17-18 hundred years.

    I have no problem with Jesus, I know him personally and love him dearly, I have a huge problem with the religion of Paul though.
     
  12. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,611
    Likes Received:
    2,049
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    Lunitik —

    On the one hand:
    On the other:
    Your second comment contradicts the first.

    So your whole argument is invalid.

    Here's a thing, instead of wasting my time asking questions to which your not interested in the answers, other than to use another opportunity to make claim to a superior intellect and deeper spiritual insight and being ... why don't you do something really useful, something really beneficial, something really meaningful, and enlighten me with regard to any one of the following:
    1: Theosis (Gk) or divinisation in relation to trinitarian metaphysics, or
    2: The meaning of perichoreisis (Gk) / circumincession (Lt) in the same, or
    3: The meaning of 'mystery' in the Christian Tradition.

    Then, instead of just talk, you can actually demonstrate it; you can walk the walk, as it were ... talk is cheap, after all.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  13. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes Received:
    2
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    ooooh! ooooooh! Big old IMPORTANT words. Returning to the path or not missing the mark through understanding of the Father and the Son. John 17:21's cleaving togther. And the unity of the former?
     
  14. bob x

    bob x New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    1
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    Ah, thanks. The "simple" gematria just assigns 1-26 to the letters (not 1-9, 10-90, 100-900 as in the ancient systems; requires you to fill out the alphabet to 27 letters) while the "English" gematria just multiplies them all by 6, which makes it easier to hit "666", and also guarantees that any words which match according to the "simple" system also match by the "English" system.
     
  15. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    1: Theosis (Gk) or divinisation in relation to trinitarian metaphysics

    The trinity is actually one of my favorite devices, despite how much I talk negatively on Christianity. One of the simplest ways to understand it is as follows (and I believe your Church Fathers have originated this particular notion):

    beloved (father), lover (son), and love (holy spirit).

    Beloved is of course the object, lover is the subject, and love is the connection. When this love is felt deeply enough, there is a merging which occurs, now only the love remains for object and subject are one. This merging is referred to as theosis in Christianity, but the Sufi's use the same device as do the Hindu's. In that merging is what is referred to often as a transcending of duality, this is why Jesus goes on saying "I and my father are one", it is literally true after this "event".

    2: The meaning of perichoreisis (Gk) / circumincession (Lt) in the same

    This is a very simply concept, although the East focuses primarily only on one aspect of this: that God resides in each of us. This is the very nature of meditation, to look within and find the divine that is our very essence.

    Of course, the reverse is also true: we reside within God as God is the whole. Very very basic, yet you seem to feel these concepts are profound and unique? You will of course find ways to prove my statements are not complete, yet in actuality I have even over-complicated them as language is ripe to do...

    3: The meaning of 'mystery' in the Christian Tradition.

    I could really care less about traditions and ritual, and this is what you discuss here: the eucharist, the trinity, etc. Life itself is the mystery, trying to pigeon hole that, trying to limit the scope of that, ritualizing instead of experiencing - it is all just toys for the foolish to play with.

    The real mystery is only experienced when you can once again look on the world with the wonder of a child, in utter amazement towards all. When you can see God is everything you encounter, as has already been discussed must be the case since we reside in him. Now you live the mystery, now the entire earth is a temple and everything within it is valid for worship. As the Sufi's say: nothing exists save God. When you know this, when this is your experience, then you know the mystery, until then you know nothing.
     
  16. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    In reality the answer to each question is: Oneness - not two, never separated.
     
  17. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    2
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    Thus, in my mind, rendering ALL forms of Numerology to be just another delusional facet of over-thinking
     
  18. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    2
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    Of course this is in YOUR reality.
    Though I admit in my Belief the LHP is seeking this Oneness/Singularity as well. Though in comparison it will take the conscious effort of spiritual separation to attain.
     
  19. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    Underlined is exactly why it isn't your reality as well ;)

    It also isn't an attainment, it will take effort but it is already the case - the effort is simply to remove the damage society has done.
     
  20. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    2
    Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

    Oh no you are gravely mistaken, I am very enlightened, way more than you have become. How do I know this? Well, I just stated it, didn't I?

    what the heck does that even mean? effort removing societal baggage to attain something is not attaining something?

    Really, I have never in my 50 yrs on earth listened to anyone not make sense so well.
     

Share This Page