Which God and where is he?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by ciel_perdy, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    Also I think hes says it should be a rapid change and I agree. Acts of KINDNESS is the way to do it.
     
  2. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    Hes inspireing others to do this thats great! More power to him!
     
  3. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    I now have Faith in humanity again hearing him speak and then listening to a love song on tv seeing that is what everyone really is :)
     
  4. chakraman

    chakraman God save us from religion

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    i like the feel of holographic consciousness, 100th monkey etc, so if i change i affect the whole consciousness of man, what more can i do for my fellow man? "columbus went by ship, we go by jet" jk. its starts a domino rally affect, by making it easier for others, that could be called optimistic i suppose, but if i get caught in the gratifying notion of progress it could go on forever, i feel i have to drop progress, psychological evolution, the idea that one bbecomes nicer, more spiritual, by realising that whilst i'm in bondage i'm the cause and that nothing less than obliterating self even registers. peace :eek:
     
  5. chakraman

    chakraman God save us from religion

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  6. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Shades of Reason

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    Isn't that the point, to live free of misery and in a manner that is pleasing to the heart? I can tell you without question that love conquers our bondage to the negatives that plague us. Fear, anger, jealousy, bitterness, intolerance, and every other negative emotion can be conquered by simply allowing love to develop within us.


    Also, by extending love towards our neighbors, we in effect help free them also. Love is like a seed and when we nurture it in our lives, it free's us from spiritual and emotional bondage, which is the root cause of our suffering in life. By extending love and by sharing it with others, lives change for the better.


    If we neglect love it will wither away, so for this reason it is necessary to increase it not only in self, but also in others. Evolution is not the correct term, but rather an active pursuit to create a better life for all living beings through love and compassion. Jesus had it right (IMO), thus his focus on the kingdom of heaven (Paradise on earth).
     
  7. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    Chakra - just to clarify, are you suggesting that it's selfish to have a lot of kids? i.e. a selfless manner would be not to overpopulate by having 2 kids or less to help control the overpopulation issue?
     
  8. chakraman

    chakraman God save us from religion

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    i dunno man, doesn't feel right. are there grades of love? is it something that increases? or is it absolute? either one has it overflowing from a mind that is free of conflict or not is how i see it. can it develop? be nurtured or does it just explode? one can prepare the ground open the window but can the brease be invited? surely its at the end of all effort, when the mind's struggle's cease, not during, gradually increasing. all conflict must end completely for the other to be, period. how can we who are in bondage, "love" and reach out? we may make a certain situation slightly easier but in the realm of the absolute which is required, it pales. still better than shooting the hell out of each other, but then the seeds of that exist where ever there is self. peace
     
  9. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    Kindness and acts of kindness open the door to all good things. Every good aspect of human nature is contained in one thing.....kindness ....that man is probably the smartest man on earth
     
  10. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    He does exist but hes also in your heart and your head :) man as being like god was speaking.....nice to hear it. That speech about psycholigical revolution through acts of kindness is words of human divine.
     
  11. chakraman

    chakraman God save us from religion

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    i am suggesting that where there is ego there is no intelligent action, no matter what country or situation you're in and that its that which is the cause of being unable to traverse such predicaments. when there is the space for intelligence to act, it will meet all problems fully, whether that means more or less children would be addressed as part of that intelligent awareness. the question is not how many children but what prevents intelligent action? self

    of course you have natural disasters, but that is another matter i think, yes?
     
  12. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Shades of Reason

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    I can only speak from my own point of reference, but in my experience love does continually grow and develop within us, just as we continually grow and develop in love. There is no end destination; there is only a continual reconciliation with the essence of life itself.


    It is a continual communion with life, the coming to know life and love more fully, and more abundantly as we move forward, never ceasing to seek to understand the scope of existence, never ceasing to love one another or to seek the "glory" that awaits each of us.


    Paradise and freedom are but a mere point of achievement along the way, ever increasing without end in our hearts and on this earth. This is not just something I believe, but something I live daily.
     
  13. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    How does this apply to uneducated women in Chad, Niger, Somalia, Ethiopia? (some of the countries with the higest birth rates) They obviously don't have the intelligent action you speak of, they probably haven't even heard of ego, Freud, etc; many don't even know how to read. Mostly just trying to survive...

    You think "self" prevents their intelligent action? How would you suggest rectifying this problem?
     
  14. chakraman

    chakraman God save us from religion

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    it applies to them because its the cause of their mess whether they read or not.

    do you not think self prevents their intelligent action? and if so how would you rectify it?

    how do we rectify this? well, i'm not sure, my position is to be aware of what prevents intelligence in myself. that to me must be my first primary action.

    i do feel that if i/we transform and end self interest then we make it easier for others, if i appreciate that consciousness is holographic. i will only act right when i have put my house in order, till then i will only create further turmoil. the rectification is not outside of ourselves but within but we don't want to face it or are unaware of the mess. any outward action on another or toward society without inner change opnly creates more problems, this is obvious, no?

    i don't feel there is an answer per se, away from the individual. we get so caught up in solutions and answers and outward change and rectification that we have no intimacy with the problem, me too of course.
     
  15. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    What if it IS in their self-interest to have smaller families (which I think it is) but they just don't have the resources to make it happen?

    Sometimes I think it's easier to solve a problem by looking for a win-win solution, i.e. appealing to others' self-interest, than to think that 7 billion people are going to reach some stage of enlightenment...

    If you're trying to end self-interest that may work well for you, and I agree it is a worthy cause, but is it practical on a global scale?

    Reminds me of a quote from Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations:

    "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."
    - Adam Smith (1723-1790)
     
  16. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    I believe a revolution of acts of kindness on a global scale is the only practical solutiuon. World peace will be a result of it.
     
  17. ciel_perdy

    ciel_perdy New Member

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    No, I am not a Catholic.

    I do agree that over-population plays a part in the suffering that 3rd world people experience, but I think the problem is FAR greater than over-population. There are enough resources on this planet to mean everyone currently could have food, water and medicine. But because of man's love for those 0's in his bank account, we don't really care about the dying, the starving and the sick. It's not profitable to fix problems, and so we continue to just stick band-aids on issues facing the world, in an effort to LOOK like we actually care.

    I do think population control plays a part, just not as big a part as you believe. Certainly if the population was to continue to grow at such an experential rate, eventually there would not be enough resources on the planet. However, I think there are enough resources now for everyone to live comfortably. Anyway, as far as population control goes, perhaps thats why Jesus moved away from the OT ''go forth and mutliply'' to ''if you can be celibate it's better for the Kingdom''. Anyway, that's been my path for the last 8 years.

    I do appreciate your comments, but I think you are trying very hard to overlook the role of greed (love of money/profits) that has caused the problems that we face in the world, and what stops us from truly fixing the problems up.
     
  18. ciel_perdy

    ciel_perdy New Member

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    It's good you want to obliterate self. I guess for me the simple and most clear way to do that is to forget about self and just get busy loving and serving other people, like Jesus taught. His message was so simple, a child could get it. Today volumes of books are written on how to get rid of self, how to overcome ego, but in the end, all I see is a lot of people pretending to overcome self and ego, who say spiritual sounding things like, ''you can't love others until you love yourself'' etc, and basically amidst all the ego play that happens, they don't actually do anything (but they make their lack of effort and change sound like spiritual progress). Jesus said in a nut shell, if you want to be free from bondage (greed, selfishness, laziness, pride, fear) follow my words, show love to others and God. In doing this we are denying self/ego, as we simply get lost in the love for others and the Source of all Life. Clear and simple.
     
  19. ciel_perdy

    ciel_perdy New Member

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    Very good post, GateKeeper. Love truly is the answer to all bondage and suffering in the world. Jesus did have it spot on.

    A thought I just had, was that the millions and millions of people who are dying through lack of food, water, clean hygene etc, is a reflection of the lack of love that the human race has in it's consciousness.
     
  20. ciel_perdy

    ciel_perdy New Member

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    This is another example of what I was saying in my previous post. You aren't saying anything. It sounds all so spiritual, but I get to the end of your post, and I am left wondering, ''well, what do I do?''

    You talk about the need to love, but then what if my love is ego, what if my love is hurting others, if my love isn't the absolute, then what's the point of loving, maybe before I love I have to be free from bondage, otherwise I will only bring others into bondage, perhaps I need to be perfect before loving others, but there is always things I have to overcome, self that needs to die, if I have this things in me when do I start to love, etc etc etc?

    Jude called this kind of talk ''wells without water''. It really just leads to confusion/doing nothing/and spiritualizing it all. Jesus simply said, forget yourself by showing love for others and God (infinitely practical). When you get busy doing that, seeking the will of God, there is no place for ego.
     

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