agnosticism

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by IowaGuy, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    My attempts to bring people out of their deceptions is exactly out of compassion. Is any experience actually real, or is it simply temporary? You suffer because you see no way out, and yet the reality is that you were never in...

    Have you heard of the story about the goose in the bottle, how to remove it without breaking the bottle or killing the goose? You will think of a million and one ways to try, but was it actually in? It is but a story, a problem I have created in your head. The head loves a puzzle, but it does not like merely accepting...

    Your mind is the bottle, your being is the goose. You needn't break the bottle because the goose is already free... can you know it?
     
  2. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    SG- good insight! Western or eastern, in-dwelling or outward-focused, the light within always is drawn to that of G!d in others. Mis eys iya yelo!

    Panta Rhei!
    Everything Flows
     
  3. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    No, I am describing that separation which is aware of the three areas - that is all that truly is, all else arises in that.

    You see how your mind is still creating distinctions? It is absolutely necessary for it to remain involved. You have still persisted with the duality of everything and nothing, and yet everything arises out of nothingness, they are not distinct at all.

    You are correct that the translation from being to language is inaccurate and almost meaningless in its limitations. I saw it is as though you are dreaming because it is similarly distinct from what is usually considered being awake. For a few seconds while you are waking up, you think the dream was real, then gradually you see that it was not. It is much the same, you realize all that you thought was you is merely as a thought process that has arisen in the comic mind.

    Words are not undestood at all in that state, words are lower, in the communication center. Above this, there is experiencing as the whole and yet individuality is there. Then there is a state in which you simply are not - there is no posibility of recalling or saying that you are there. Returning, you will feel that it is time you have lost until you yourself are lost to it - often this only comes at death itself, but there are a few whose bodies are utilized further by existence.
     
  4. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    Have you heard about the story of the child in the womb, and how to get the child out without killing either the mother or the child? That suffering is real--not a deception.

    That does nothing to end the very real suffering going on. Sorry.
     
  5. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    Do you want to know what a Zen master would do if you said this to him? He'd prolly pinch and twist your ear really hard and say, "Was that unreal?"
     
  6. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    You have chosen to have the child, thus you have created your own suffering... this supports my point.
     
  7. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    "Yes" - he is speaking in past tense, it no longer is at all - it is at most a memory now.

    I would not have to say anything to a Zen master though, he would understand my silence.
     
  8. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    PTSD lingers
    Speak for yourself!
    Uh-huh......
     
  9. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    My sensei would prolly then hand you a disgustingly dirty coffee cup and two squares of toilet paper.
     
  10. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    PTSD is merely an identification with a particular fear... it arises solely in mind, you simply cannot create a distance and watch it. I would suggest creating the situations in a controlled way where it is triggered and just looking at the absurdity of it.

    There are situations where you perhaps did not choose to conceive, but how can you not choose to have the child?
     
  11. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    No. PTSD also causes measurable physical changes within the body and changes the way the body responds to stress.
     
  12. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    You do not think this can be also due to mind?
     
  13. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    I did not say that mind was not part of it.
     
  14. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercur├Žn

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    So, in essence survival of the species introduces suffering in your world perception. In order to become Bliss we need to stop doing all things that create suffering? That is not being alive, it is awaiting death. Perhaps your mother should have taken your advice? ;)
     
  15. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    Is your being part of it?
     
  16. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    So, in your opinion, life is about procreation?

    There are enough birth control techniques and things like abortion to ensure the pleasure of sex can be experienced without contributing to the worlds overpopulation. I do not see how my statement is life-negative at all, I simply say it is a choice she has made to give birth in the first place. She needn't have gone through the experience whatsoever.

    If everyone goes on having children as they please, this whole world will be as a third world nation, this earth simply cannot support many more people. It is why wars and disasters are perfectly good, it at least temporarily balances things a little.
     
  17. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    First of all, birth control effectiveness rates are deceptive--if a contraceptive says it it is 90% effective, that means 90% chance PER YEAR of not getting pregnant. That means you can expect an average of at least one unplanned pregnancy every 10 years, barring any infertility problems. (Infertility affects up to 20% of couples in a given year.)

    You can opt for having a tubal ligation--but I know women who have been surprised with pregnancy even after having the procedure done.

    AND, if you are a young woman, and request a tubal ligation, odds are that you will be turned down. "You might not want children, but you meet a man who wants children?" is the usual line.

    Sheesh. As if she is incapable of making the decision for herself. :rolleyes:

    So, if you think women have all the freedom of choice you ascribe to them regarding this, think again.

    Uh huh...
     
  18. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    You have simply ignored abortion.
     
  19. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercur├Žn

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    I didn't say that. Life is about survival, it is the very first priority of any species.
     
  20. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    With that also comes a lot of psychological baggage.
     

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