"The Word made flesh" — Theosophy’s view

Discussion in 'Alternative' started by Nick the Pilot, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I think now would be an appropriate time to look at the (I, mm) I am the two syllables in his name.

    Appears I've always simply thought the burning bush has a southern drawl..Ah mm as Ah mm....

    aaaaaauuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmsssssssss aaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuummmmmmmm
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Oh and I believe I mentioned before I don't seem much difference between praying to the Hindu G!d of Education and then studying for the test...

    and...

    Reciting the chant for the Saint of Lost things and then looking for them...

    I see them as amazingly similar....

    but then I AM easily amazed....

    there are no miracles and it is all a miracle...

    Thank G!d!
     
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Then, with no powers of discrimination nor determination, there is no doubt you would be easily amazed. The Face of God or a balloon on a stick would be the same ... ?

    God bless

    Thomas
     
  4. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    As Jung said in comment to Nietzsche's proclamation "God is Dead" (which echoed Greek historian Plutarch's " the great god Pan is dead") "God does not choose us, we choose a god". This meaning that God is one of several gods hanging out in our Collective Unconscious, and indeed does not exist in an objective form (of course Nietzsche was going elsewhere with his moral and ethical stance).

    So, in essence there need not be a difference between The Face of God and a balloon on a stick, as we have evidenced in earlier cultures the projection of divinity onto totems, the practice of animism, and fetishism.
     
  5. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Ah, my Modernist friends. See the problem is we put too much emphasis on the material and "objective" (G!d versus balloon head) and too little on the actuality of mental events. Our intersubjective experience of the Divine is every bit as real as the physicists' debate over Copenhagen Interpretation versus Bohmian Mechanics versus Many Worlds Theory (I do not include Biocentrism because I have yet to find one physicist who supports it). Our experience of G!d in relexion is every bit as real as our experience of the results of a two slit experience.

    Totems, animism, fetishism, while admittedly primative are nonetheless valid experiences for the experiencer. Note I am not claiming they can interceeed any more than my conception of G!d.

    Pax et amore omnia vincunt.
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Are you guys saying you can't see the face of G!d in a balloon on a stick?

    How about in your neighbor?

    Or a babe in arms?

    Or your trusty dog?

    Or this computer screen right now?

    Dang I love bliss, thanx for the induction. I needed that!
     
  7. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    You can if you want that, just realize it is a projection from your psyche and is not objectively real in any sense of the word. :D
     
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    err.....Doh!

    Isn't it all?
     
  9. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Bravo!

    I would go further and say that through such symbols the engagement of ancient man with God was, in many ways, far more powerful and meaningful and 'real' compared to the symbolically denuded and illiterate culture of modernity ... today, for many, 'God' is nothing more than an empty and abstract label attached to sentimental idealism.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  10. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Or on a slice of toast?

    What I meant by the comment is by saying 'all/nothing' what you're actually doing is stripping the term, in this case 'miracle', of any real and objective meaning — definitions become so vague as to be useless — words lose all substance and essence.

    So when faced with the idea of 'God' and the idea of 'a balloon on a stick', you would be incapable of explaining the difference between the two ... although it does startle me somewhat to see that someone who so happily ridicules the idea of God as a paternal image, the old man, the grey beard, etc., etc., yet in the next breathe you declare a state of bliss at the idea of God being a balloon on a stick.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Oh my, they line up and out the door and pay the fee to see Jesus or Mary on a slice of toast, or a wall, yet right in front of them for free, anytime, they are missing the face of G!d in a balloon on a stick!
    Interesting to me and mine it increases it. We live in heaven or hell, our choice, sometimes swinging from one to the other moment by moment by our perception. In him I live and breathe and have my being. It isn't miraculous, it is absolutely natural as we all have the divinity within us and all around us....some say the divine is unnatural....that would be atheists I would think. As Eric Butterworth says, Christ/G!d is not in us like a raisin in a bun, but like a wave is in the ocean....it rises out of the ocean to say hello, and then disapears back within again...and another and another everywhere omnipresent, the only begotten continually begotten, and it is all a miracle. Not either or, but and, not lack/stripping but expanding/abundance. And bliss washes over...
    Oh I get the paternal image....even stronger the matriarchal image, me as a babe resting comfortably in the lap and bosum of a grandmother, rocking in a chair. I can't get that notion out of my mind....it is the 'walking' thru the garden 'calling' for Adam and Eve and not 'knowing' where they are or what they have done that I chuckle at....
    In the eyes of a child, in a rainbow, in a thunderstorm, in a sprout coming out of the ground, in a compost pile, creating fertile earth out of scraps, in a rock (before and after Michaelangelo) and yes in a balloon on a stick and in the stick. Yes, bliss it is, I so thank you for enticing my fingers to type that out.
    Namaste my brother, the Christ in me, sees, salutes and honors the presence of Christ in you.


    And I breathe out and bliss....

    The word made flesh, G!d what a buzz!
     
  12. DT Strain

    DT Strain Spiritual Naturalist

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    We must be cautious of our egos friends. Many certain statements about the grand questions of existence here. Perhaps our human limitations should be appreciated more :)

    On the subject of physics, it was noted of my statement that modern physics is about what can be measured and "denial of everything else". Yet, I believe that latter part may be an addition of the critics of scientism and perhaps a straw man. The lack of affirmation is humility and not equivalent to denial. Denial would be an affirmation as well, and should require proof by modern scientific standards as well, if I understand correctly. However, many individuals do deny things outside their assumptions, and that seems to include some of those inclined toward science too.

    Best wishes :)
    -Daniel
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    My point was your inability to discriminate ... not the failings of others.

    In fact your problem is 'worse' than theirs.

    You might think so, but logically you're wrong. If you remove all definition from a shape or a term, it loses its shape, and its meaning ... which is precisely what you're doing.

    But, as you say, it's all hell, it's all heaven.

    But we have choice, and we have no choices ...

    You see ... sounds cool, but means nothing ...

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Ya just don't appreciate that me and mine can be in bliss do you Thomas. No dog and pony show, no incense or foriegn languages, no incantations or chants...

    Now it ain't all true, we do occasionally celebrate others celebrations and rather enjoy them as well. Currently celebrating ten decades of raising children to be blissfully unaware that what we believe is not kosher...or canonized.

    I'll continue to work at not discriminating, while others sell their tickets to see the spot on the wall.
     
  15. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Actually I'm in no doubt that you and yours are blissed out all the time ... the point is your definition of 'bliss' is not the Christian definition, which speaks of the Beatific Vision. 'Bliss' is rarely used in Christianity, as it tends towards the sentimental.

    What gets me is that you talk about 'non-theistic Christianity' which is a nonsense as Christianity is absolutely about theism.

    One of your favourite scriptural texts is 'ye are gods' although you fail to comprehend Jesus is being facetious towards His audience, then in the next breathe you ridicule the idea of a personal god.

    Another favourite is 'in him we live and move and have our being' but you deny the idea of 'Him' as anything more than someone like yourself — rather you mean 'in me he lives and moves and has his being'.

    Another is: "he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do; and greater than these shall he do" with the obvious implication being that it's you who might well do the greater work.

    So on the one hand, any scripture reference that tickles your fancy you adopt to your own personal ideology, and any you don't like you simply and conveniently dismiss as exaggerations, fabrications or lies.

    Then by 'everything and nothing' statements you can hop from camp to camp as it suits.

    In short, I'd find it difficult not to be blissfully content with everything arrayed around me in reference to me ...

    I'm in no doubt you're blissed out all the time, but please don't ask me to accept that your world represents Christianity, in any meaningful way.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  16. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Luv ya brother!
    And ain't it a shame? I'll take bliss over self flagellation. I ain't born in sin, I don't buy it, sorry, the Jews wrote it, they don't buy it. Bliss to me is the feeling of unconditional love, giving and getting and knowing unconditional love. Yo, I ain't perfect, far from it, but the striving is what it is all about.
    yeah, we know. And the theism I don't buy is the Sunday School and Sistene Chapel ceiling old white guy in the sky. I believe that most religion is based on the unknown, always has been, and that G!d is principle, G!d is natural and one day just as one belief after another of religious truths has been dropped by science in the past 2000 years one day that science will find the theory of everything and that will be what we've been calling g!ds for years...the unexplainable explained.
    Facetious, it was his response to him being G!d, he also said who is my family...these are my brothers and sisters...was he facetious then as well? I believe Jesus was teaching us oneness with everything I and the Father are one. When he said I am the light he was referring to the great I AM, AUM, Oneness, connection to everything that is.
    yes I deny Him, I deny the old white guy, the gender specific thought....I surely am not G!d, but G!d is in me, and around me, I am part and parcel of G!d as are you....and once again Eric Butterworth said it well, 'Not like a raisin in a bun, but like a wave in an ocean'
    Ah the possibilities are endless Thomas. I raised hell my first 33 years, so I am waaaaaayyyy behind the curve. But if you think that I am implying that it will be me.... you give me too much credit.....but if you think it couldn't be you, you don't give yourself enough.
    Just like the rest of us huh? Hence the reason for the catechism and the Church not using the bible for the past 19 centuries....don't let them read the whole book!! Only what we want them to read and only with our interpretations....yikes.
    We are one Thomas.... our camps are connected. We've just strayed down differing paths.
    You know you just may be correct. I represent, I am a follower of Jesus. Maybe Ghandi said it best....

    “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
     
  17. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Here you go again ... you live in a world of your own imaginings, my friend, and they're none too charitable to others, despite all your remarks.

    Good for you ... but that just makes my point.

    But you don't strive after anything, you just re-imagine it, so it lies effortlessly within your grasp.

    Wil, it's only you stuck in some childhood image. What you're doing is labelling people so you can ridicule them — that's false witness brother, think about it ...

    I think your image of the Deity, which seems concocted from half a dozen scripture references taken totally out of context, is more idolatrous than the image of an old man sitting on the clouds ... I think the Deity you conjure up suits you right down to the ground.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  18. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    Where are these references in scripture?
     
  19. Ben Masada

    Ben Masada New Member

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    Not according to Judaism. When the Almighty said in the beginning "Let there be light" as we have from Genesis 1:3, that light became flesh many years later in the People of Israel born as the seed of Abraham, Isaiah and Jacob. Here are some more of the details:

    Let There Be Light and There Was Light

    It has been an a "tohu vavohu" among many questioners, especially Christians, even many Jews, to come up with an explanation for that kind of light in Genesis 1:3 wen the sun, which gives light by day was created only on the 4th day of creation. The embarrassment is that at both, Atheists laugh. And not because they know any better in terms of an adequate answer, but for two other reasons: First, because they look for an answer only in Science; and of course it is not there but in Theology. And in Theology, they laugh at us for they think that we are all speaking about an anthropomorphic god, which, as I don't blame them: It indeed never existed.

    But what light is indeed the Torah writer referring to when he reports of God as declaring, "Let there be light?"

    Since before the creation of the universe it was already in the designs of God to provide for salvation of Mankind, a People whom salvation would come from, in the words of Jesus himself in John 4:22. Hence the first prophecy pronounced by God Himself about the rise of Israel from the Patriarcks Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the future.

    When for good, the Assyrians removed Israel from existence by replacing the Northern Kingdom of the Galilee with Gentiles, and after the Jews or Southern Kingdom was taken for an temporary exile of 70 years in Babylon, and the time had arrived for their return to the Land of Israel, Prophet Isaiah said that the people who walked in darkness, as he meant the Gentiles in Galilee, had seen a great light as the Jewish People were returning to the Land of Israel. (Isa. 9:2)

    Then, later, he confirms that light of Genesis 1:3 when he explained that Israel had been assigned as light to the nations. (Isa. 42:6) But the light was to remain divided from the darkness, so that both should exist in the same world; although, in the language of the Essenes, there would always be a conflict between the children of Light and the children of darkness. Between Jews and Gentiles.

    Jesus was aware of this Light as he delivered his famous Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, when he said to them: "You are the Light of the world." (Mat. 5:14) The reason why he said "you are" and not "you have" is that what one has, it can be taken away, but what one is he is no matter what. Individually, we have the light the world needs to know God. But as a People, we are the light of Genesis 1:3, which the world needs for salvation.

    Ben
     
  20. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Quoting this post since it goes well with this thread:

    http://www.interfaith.org/forum/the-messiah-theosophy-s-view-14796.html
     

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