Mormon Halloween bash bans 'cross-gender' costumes

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by Nick the Pilot, Oct 30, 2011.

  1. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    How's that? Halloween is an old Pagan based celebration, Satanism doesn't recognize any Pagan deities, gods, or anything religious.
     
  2. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    In the sense like in the book of Job: Satan as an over-zealous prosecuting attorney.
     
  3. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    SG,

    I think you and I are saying the same thing. Halloween is just a time of children dressing up in costumes. There is no connection between a little child wearing, say, a Spiderman costume, and satanism. Saying that wearing a Spiderman costume leads to satanism scares children in an unnecessary way.

    Perhaps people who believe in Satan and people who don't believe in Satan see all of this is in a different light. I do not believe in Satan.
     
  4. Sam Albion

    Sam Albion akaFrancisKing:ViveLeRoi!

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    I like Halloween, and costumes and dressing up aside, I like Halloween precisely because it plants a little seed of... otherness, and magic, and witchcraft, in a child's heart. I have no objection to... jesus-seeds, and buddha-seeds, and Mohammed-seeds being planted there as well, of course.

    But I want children to think about magic. What is faith, after all, if it isn't magic?

    I feel this way because, having followed many paths, I feel... good. Solid. Whole. None of these... faiths, or paths; new-world or old, have made me a ... bully, or a beast, or a liar, or a miserable, chaotic, evildoer, as I imagine satanic types to be.

    I, myself, do not believe in satan. Nor do I believe in an angel called Moroni giving Joseph Smith golden plates, and nor do I belive in the rationality of Scientology or theosophy.

    I do, though, believe in magic, and as a "witch" myself, in the sense of... potions, and powers, and magic, and godesses, I think everyone should have a little witch in them...
     
  5. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    Nick - I think you hit the nail on the head here. Many Christians believe in Satan, that he/it is a real entity that is trying to tempt the good Christians to the "dark side". Halloween is a tool in his toolbox for doing so (or so my old church thought).

    I don't believe in Satan either. I see Halloween in a different light after having experienced the Day of the Dead in Mexico (Día de los Muertos), which is an old pagan celebration, a carry-over from the Aztec days. Mexicans embrace death and celebrate it. Many Christians in the USA (in my experience) tend to fear death and Satan, which likely influences their views on Halloween.
     
  6. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    IG,

    I see what you are saying. But there is also the issue of a little child wearing a Spiderman costume. These Christians are saying that wearing a Spiderman costume is a child's first step on the road to satanism, and I disagree.

    I suppose these Christians are saying that wearing a Spiderman costume moves the child just a little closer to being snared by the devil. Even if there were a devil and even if the deveil was watching out for every chance to snare small children, and even if there were things that children could do expose themselves to such 'danger,' I don't that wearing a Spiderman costume would be a step in such a direction.

    Do your fundamentalist Christians see a little child's wearing of a Spiderman costume as a possible first step of the child moving towards satanism?
     
  7. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    i think we are deviating here to wider issues, your initial post was that Mormons set specific dress rules for a party on their premises I have no problem with that, you can paint the inside of your house whatever colour you want and insist that visitors take their shoes off, its the same thing.
     
  8. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    No, it's not the same thing. I paint my room blue because I like blue. I take my shoes off and insist that visitors do the same so I don't get the carpet muddy. I don't do these things because I fear Satan.

    Sure, the Mormons can do whatever they want, it's their premises, it's a free country. But why say a kid can't wear a Halloween mask? That is the wider issue Nick is getting at here.

    Do you, NCOT, think a kid wearing a Halloween mask could lead them to Satanism? Do you think Satan is "tempting" them with the wearing of the mask?
     
  9. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    the point is that within reason you can do what you want in your own home, and i would the say the same for a church.

    well a kid can wear such a mask but perhaps it wont down well in a particular church building.

    no probably not more likely into witchcraft.

    i would say the wider issues is why do some people want to control what others think ?
     
  10. bob x

    bob x New Member

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    And within reason we are free to say what we want on an Internet chat board, including that this church is stupid and not the kind of organization to be entrusted with teaching values to kids.
     
  11. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    Are you referring to Nick or to the Mormon church with this comment? I don't think Nick is trying to control what others think, he's just pointing out an issue for futher discussion.

    The Mormon Church (and many other churches) definitely want to control what others think, particularly the dues-paying members of their congregations.

    The wider issue yet, is why would a human allow their thoughts and actions to be "controlled" or influenced by a religious institution?
     
  12. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    both really. it amounts to the same thing really. although in the case of the Mormon Church they only tried to apply their rules to a party hosted on their premises whereas Nick wants to impose his rules onto a Church Building that is nothing to do with him, which is far worse IMO.

    why not the Church offers fellowship and community a rare thing for many societies the cost of this is a level of conformity.
     
  13. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    In all fairness, there is nothing in any of these articles saying that this church links Halloween with Satanism. That is a projection we here have made.
     
  14. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    SG,

    You are right, the thread has gotten a little off-topic, that some Christian groups link Halloween with satanism. You are right, these Mormons do not seem to be linking Halloween with satanism, because they were hosting a Halloween party, and we have mistakenly made that connection.

    There is another issue, that the man is saying that a little girl who wears a Harry Potter costume is a sexual deviant, which is what the Mormons are saying. There is still another issue, that Mormons posted an offensive flyer on the woman's door, and their attitude is, "If you find such a publlic posting on your door offensive, too bad, we don't care about your feelings at all. It's perfectly okay for us and all other Mormons to be offensive in this way."
     
  15. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    i must have missed that bit, can you provide a quote ?

    well ok who said the flyer was offensive ?

    also

    that seems fair enough for a private party to have a dress code, or is a private party not allowed to have a dress code in liberal America ?

    I mean in the UK many nightclubs have a dress code albeit no trainers or leather and rubber night, and if you dont fit the dress code you wont be let.

    so surely informing people of the dress code is better than the disappointment of being turned away at the door, now that really would be upsetting for Children.

    The wider issue here really is the thought police trying to control the religious beliefs of others, which is policy straight from Stalinist Russia is it not ?
     
  16. bob x

    bob x New Member

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    One of the people it was imposed upon.
    Uh... nobody is trying to ban these people from having their party, or running it however they like, let alone trying to have them arrested for believing whatever it is they believe. What we are doing is to call them offensive and stupid: are you saying that it should be illegal to call someone stupid, when they are acting stupidly? THAT is Stalinist. I notice this often from American Christians: that they think "freedom of expression" means they get to say whatever their beliefs are, but no-one is allowed to say anything in response. Whining about how persecuted you are because people don't have a high opinion of you is seriously paranoid.

    I see a lot of similarity here to the "wedding cake" thread. If the Mormons only want like-minded parents to bring their kids to the party, that would be one thing (similarly, if the baker only made cakes for her friends). The problem arose here because, instead of only promoting the party at LDS services or whatever, they plastered the whole neighborhood with their flyers, as if inviting everybody, while excluding and offending some.
     
  17. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    quote please I must have missed that one

    are you sure nobody is trying to ban these people from having a party on their own premises with a specific dress code ?

    its seems like some are trying to impose their own version of morality onto these Mormons

    well i am none of those things.

    yeah it is similar to the wedding cake, i think someone has some issues really.

    again who was offended ?
    and who was excluded ?
     
  18. bob x

    bob x New Member

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    I was assuming you had at least read the opening post. The Mormons plastered the neighborhood with flyers, and one of the people who got the flyer taped to her door found it offensive. What in the world did you think is the topic?
    Entirely sure. What are you talking about?
    What in the world are you talking about? The "imposition" of the flyers on people's doors may have been a minor one, but there has been no imposition whatsoever in the other direction.
    You are claiming that if anyone expresses a low opinion of Mormons, why, THAT'S JUST LIKE STALIN! You really don't understand why that sounds paranoid?
    All right, at least we're agreeing on something.
    People who do not think children's fantasy play needs to be policed for signs of gender nonconformity. The attitude that children need to be checked for whether they might be queers before they can be allowed into a party sounds very weird and more than a little bit sick to a lot of people; reaching out to the whole public to advertise what kind of kids they want to disinvite from their party is clueless and rude. Yeah, someone has some issues all right.
     
  19. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    i'm not saying that i agree with the mormons on this matter.

    but a party on private property with a particular dress code like it or not is fine IMO.

    it only becomes not fine if you want to impose your particular morality onto others which seems to be the case here.
     

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