The Definition of a Miracle

Discussion in 'Judaism' started by Ben Masada, Dec 6, 2011.

  1. Ben Masada

    Ben Masada New Member

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    My basis to assert that the metaphorical tree of life is about the attribute of eternal life is in Genesis 3:22, where we have that Adam and Eve were banned from the Garden of Eden to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever. To live forever is the connection with the tree of life. Hence, eternal life.

    This idea of Moses studying Torah with God after his death, is midrashic myth to be used as parables are used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson. The Talmud abound with them.
    Ben
     
  2. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Excuse me, is it not possible you are talking past each other? Ben is looking at the Torahic "mees" and BB the Kabbalic "etz"?
     
  3. Ben Masada

    Ben Masada New Member

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    I believe BB is talking about Talmudic midrashim, which I value as much as I do parables.
    Ben
     
  4. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    Dream - I like your analogy here, and I agree 100%. I wish the fundamentalist right-wing Christians in the U.S. shared this same viewpoint as you do. Unfortunately, the first words out of some fundies mouths are "the bible says..."
     
  5. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    This was hard for me to admit at my age. I'm glad we could agree, and I appreciate the clapping from BBrain. Yes, seattlegal is a sharpie. Naturally I have shared the same concerns as you, IGuy, about it being an elitist position; but its not. It is elitist of me to take the Bible out of its shrine.
     
  6. Ben Masada

    Ben Masada New Member

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  7. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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  8. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    There is no such thing as a miracle, it is simply something which mind does not understand when it happens, and thus awe and wonder is experienced.

    Why is man so enamored with such things? They are ultimately meaningless, if there is no audience to see what is the point? Miracles just show you are still in duality, still trying to impress the other. Truth is every second is a miracle, that you are is a miracle, why do you want more?

    It is very petty, it is time for man to grow up.
     
  9. chazz

    chazz New Member

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    A miracle is something that cannot happen, but does happen.
     
  10. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    What minute thing is NOT a miracle?

    What act do "You" preform where the potency to do so originates in one's own prowess. A beast runs fast and flies high ---but they think only of their vanity amonst their bretheren only.

    All are miracles and one must study its nuances ---ideally specialise in at least one and print up calling cards as a vocation.

    What is not a miracle? Your farts are less then a mystery of the laws of nature?

    The mundane use of the word miracle ---is the lucky event that aided "your" desires.

    Desires are one thing and 'making hay while the Sun shines' is another more sublime thing.
     
  11. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    Miracles are things that occur with the body or bodies that literally have to do with soul and spirit essences , seen events and felt, because the soul and spirits are not one with the bodies.
     
  12. Ben Masada

    Ben Masada New Member

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    The Definition of a Miracle

    What is a miracle? Any dictionary compares it to a wonder, a supernatural deed, a prodigy. And according to religions, it is an act of God. I don't say, according to Theism, because one can be a theist without having to be a religious person. I don't say either, according to the Bible (Tanach), because it must be taken literally for miracles to be a work of God.

    According to Baruch de Spinoza, to call a miracle an act of God is to bring God down to the level of an intellect still in the process of evolution. Then, a miracle would be synonymous with weakness in God. What seems to be a miracle for today's generation, could be explained in the next as simply a normal thing that happened, as Albert Einstein said in his book "Out of My Later Years" p. 220. "It is the goal of every activity of the intellect to convert a miracle into something which it has grasped."

    How could a miracle be a miracle done by God on earth among men, when, according to Psalm 19:1, the universe, made out of billions of galaxies, and trillions of stars, so harmoniously organized reveals the handiworks of God? If God created the universe and still expands it, or add to it other universes, according to the theory of multi-universes, how could, for instance, the partition of the Red Sea have been a miracle of God?

    Here I owe to atheists a footnote for whom to talk about Creation is tantamount to ignorance. Well, the famous astrophysicist Carl Sagan did the same in his book "Cosmos" p. 20, when he missed to add a footnote to the effect that it was according to religion or to the Bible that, "from Creation to the Flood" the period elapsed was of about 432,000 years or about 100 times longer than the OT chronology. The point here is not about the time but about the expression "from Creation to the Flood." Why would he say such thing without a footnote if the concept of probability was not in his mind that the universe or universes could be the work of a Creator?

    The bottom line to conclude this thread is that if we contemplate the universe as God's handiwork, nothing done on earth among men is a miracle of God.

    Ben
     
  13. Ben Masada

    Ben Masada New Member

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    Wow! Lunitik, you have hit the nail on the head. It just happens that your last question is in need of some more words to get clear in my mind. I fail to grasp the point that the truth is a miracle, and that the fact that we are is a miracle. To whom, to us? To God it couldn't be.
    Ben
     
  14. Ben Masada

    Ben Masada New Member

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    IMHO, every thing can happen. It will be a miracle in the eyes of the beholder, who still do not understand what happened and why. With time, the so-called miracle will cease to be, as the mind gets the hold of it.
    Ben
     
  15. Ben Masada

    Ben Masada New Member

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    Miracles are conventionalized to be so by faith. Therefore, short-lived till knowledge knocks at the door of one's mind and ignorance ceases to be. Hence the famous saying of the former British Prime Minister Disraeli: "Where knowledge begins, faith ends." Since faith foments ignorance, people perish for lack of knowledge. (Hosea 4:6)
    Ben
     
  16. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    A miracle involves things of the spirit and soul which is separate from the body and has some kind of resurrection or transformation that occurs when the miracles happen. Thats the definintion of an actual miracle. Through faith you come to truth but faith alone can produce a miracle knowing what god is , love, and wanting to be what you truely are as a child of god....which is a being that is love.
     
  17. Ben Masada

    Ben Masada New Member

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    Can you quote the Tanach where it says that the soul is separate from the body? If you can't, take a look at Genesis 2:7. Whe man was created from the dust of the earth, the Lord breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, he became a living soul. To become is to be. Therefore, man is a soul and not something separated from it. Soul comes from the Hebrew word "nephesh" which is a living person. Once the breath of life is separated from the body, the soul is non-existent.

    Miracle. Yes, when a miracle happens is it an act of God or of man?
    Ben
     

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