What is The Truth?

Discussion in 'Esoteric' started by JakeH, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. JakeH

    JakeH New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    “There is no religion higher than Truth”

    The Apostle Peter declared to his disciple Clement: “Hence, O beloved Clement, if you would know the things pertaining to God, you have to learn them from Him alone, because He alone knows The Truth. For if any one else knows anything, he has received it from Him or from His disciples”.
    - The Clementine Homilies

    It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught by God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
    - John 6:45


    The Truth is referred to in the Holy Bible over 250 times and the first thing one must know is that it is not meant in general terms, it is something very specific. The Truth could be called the Eternal Truth or God’s Truth or His Truth or simply, The Truth. The Truth is composed of two familiar components which cannot be separated – the whole truth and nothing but the truth. If either component is corrupted in the slightest way, it is simply not The Truth.
    The reality of The Truth can best be described as an unfiltered, unaltered beam of light. This beam then passes through a multi faceted crystal and the beam becomes splintered into many small beams. As mankind sees these individual splintered beams, they perceive what they see as The Truth but, unfortunately, it is not whole. This is why we have such a diversity of cultures, political viewpoints, religious denominations, etc. Each sees a different ‘splinter’ of the beam and believes, with all their heart & soul that only they know The Truth - and everyone else is wrong. Only when one sees the entire beam will they know The Truth, become ‘free’ of this world and follow in The Way to salvation.

    Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
    - John 8:31-32

    And finally....You learn The Truth through True Gnosis.
     
  2. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    1
    I would amend this to "There is no god higher than Truth"
    but that's just me!
     
  3. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    True Gnosis is to directly encounter...

    There is a truth which you can directly encounter - in Christianity it is called divinisation or theosis. It is to realize God is an objectification of that, and to realize you are a subjectification of this. Truth is neither this nor that, go deeply into this and you will realize truth.

    Recall that 1 John 4:8 says God is love, are you something different? If two lovers meet, is there two loves or is there one whole love?
     
  4. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,242
    Likes Received:
    0
    in the Christianity that I have been involved in "Jesus Christ" is considered "The Truth"

    so we come into relationship with "The Truth" "Jesus" and we are set free.
     
  5. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes Received:
    2
     
  6. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    2
    Well, how can you ever know if YOU know the truth? If you admit that there are many splinters of the beam, how can you ever be sure you know the "whole truth" as you say? Look at all the wackos (doomsday predictors, etc) that thought they knew the "whole truth"...

    i.e. can the "whole truth" ever be truly known? And how would you know when you actually discovered this "whole truth"?

    Can the "whole truth" be discovered from just reading the bible? Or does god somehow interact with you and show you the whole truth?
     
  7. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    1 Corinthians 12:12-27 describes becoming one with Christ.

    Christ is part of the trinity, thus it is in essence becoming one with God.

    This is the whole purpose of religion, everything else is to develop love and trust that you will allow yourself to merge. That oneness is salvation, there is nothing else which saves.
     
  8. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    It cannot be known through any logic, but it can be encountered.
     
  9. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    2
    And how exactly do you know it is the "whole truth" that you're encountering and not something else? i.e. ego, hallucination, etc.
     
  10. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was not there to hallucinate.
     
  11. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    What happened, I could never have even considered conceiving of, and at the same time it cannot be ego because all that ego identifies with was not there, mind still asserted "what is this? what happened?" but it was so faint and irrelevant. I was gone for 6+ hours, almost like a blackout, and when I returned I remember having so much new knowledge... everything made sense. I felt fresh and renewed, it was just awesome.

    I almost want it to be a hallucination, I almost want it to have never happened because the old me died that day. I have all these memories, but they are not of the same entity. It would be so much easier to pretend I am that, but this gift, I have to share. My old interests are so petty now, only helping others really matters to me.

    Yet, most are so non-receptive, I am wondering if it was right to give this to me.
     
  12. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    I only share in relation to what might be helpful, it is not good to throw more knowledge into your head. What has been shared with me is far more though, but existence is ready to share its ways with everyone, you just have to be willing to accept.
     
  13. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,242
    Likes Received:
    0

    in my tradition the spirit of religion is demonic and you are welcome to it.

    people do not need poisonous religion, they need relationship.
     
  14. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why do they need relationships?

    They can relate, but relationships mean a kind of dependence and obligation, they do not provide freedom.

    I don't even understand why this is related to religion in your mind, it is just natural mammal behavior to live in packs, and this type of living gives us the urge to relate and share with one another... this is not related to religion at all.

    Perhaps it is because you don't know how to make friends outside the Church?
     
  15. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Also, what is your tradition?
     
  16. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes Received:
    2
    I said that once on 23 Feb 1968. HINT: Anthem of the Sun was recorded that night!;)
     
  17. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,242
    Likes Received:
    0
    i'm talking about a Love Relationship with God, that is the promise of the Christianity that I have encountered.


    humour, not used that from you, you ok ?
     
  18. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    This statement shows a lack of understanding on your part... 1 John 4:8 says God IS love. You are saying you are after a Love Relationship with Love. It makes no sense, why will you love love? No, love is the fragrance of the divine, seek that divinity within yourself and you will see the Kingdom of God - as Jesus has termed it.
     
  19. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,242
    Likes Received:
    0
    if you say so.

    In the Christianity that I have encountered we come to know God as a Person, and there is the potential for a Love Relationship with this Person.

    I'm sharing my experience of Christianity, whether you think its right or wrong is your call.
     
  20. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    As someone with a Theosophical background, I like this kind of discussion. The approach I take, is that every human being is innately in possession of a PRINCIPLE or Faculty of Consciousness which allows him or her to KNOW the Truth, directly and unequivocally.

    We call this faculty Buddhi, as it is precisely the same which operated in Lord Gautama Buddha, Christed Jesus (and every other Christed, or spiritually Awakened individual throughout history), etc.

    When operational, and when unobstructed in terms of reaching the physical BRAIN, via the mind or mental body (also via a clear, reflecting and calm astral body, or emotional principle) ... it is accurate to say that ANY human being can, and does, KNOW TRUTH.

    How can we be certain?

    We can't ... UNLESS the above set(s) of conditions are met. When this occurs, it still becomes necessary to ask: TO what extent has the person been able to accurately transmit anything of his or her Buddhic-Conscious experience, and how much (or to what degree) has the genuine INSIGHT (or Intuition) been lost, filtered or degraded by the various layers of personality equipment?

    This is why Gnosticism becomes just another curious belief system, when garbled up and clouded by codifications and multiple layers of interpretation ... vs. any kind of true GNOSIS, which can and often does occur entirely independent of orgranized religion or belief systems. The Native American or indigenous shamans of ANY region are often in a far better position to rightly interpret the signs of the Heavens, perhaps from what we would call an astronomical and also astrological point of view ... vs. the spiritually degraded and materialism-burdened trappings of religion which all but the most adroit and adept among the modern-day priesthood (of any Tradition, Eastern or Western) must try and sidestep before any kind of true Revelation may come through, or Insight be afforded.

    The following of the Star, SiRiUs, for example ... means WHAT among modern Christians, this time of year? Either it shows us something of the Pageantry of the Heavens, and how this reflects, even down here on tiny Earth (where ALL bear within their hearts "Christ within, the HOPE of Glory" - Known 1000 different ways, to 1000 different people - even just within relatively MODERN history!) ... or else the still small Voice of Truth and Reason is smothered, such that only the precious few "will receive Him still."

    All are capable, but not all perceive, respond or readily relate to THE TRUTH. And as long as we are keeping in mind GOODNESS and BEAUTY ... I think we're still, pretty well off.

    Yes, the Truth may remind us of perspective, the need for Humility, and we may become well aware, Socratic-like, that WHAT we know, even if it could be sum-totalled, would compare as nought next to the Awareness of the Ancients. But does that mean we should not strive to embody GOODNESS in our actions and relationships, or give up on the challenge of helping to reveal BEAUTY - where sometimes the ugliness of human ignorance, greed and exploitation have become increasingly prevalent?

    Truth is not, or should not be used, as simply a bludgeoning tool, with which to BASH each other into alignment, or even as a sharpened sword, wielded a bit UNskillfully (by the zealous and eager, yet utterly undiciplined and untrained) ... for otherwise, we shall lop off an ear where (wo)men are but seeking, straining even to HEAR. We shall divorce entire HANDS, and arms from those engaged in OUTREACH, all in service - one way or another - to the same Holy POWERS. And, for all our Good Intentions, we shall cut out another's tongue, even as s/he DECLARES GOD by some other name, or in some other language than we are used to hearing ... and then, once we have SAVED the whole world from its (which are often simply OUR) follies, HOW then, shall we be able to hear others cry HOLY?

    Let Manjushri wield that Sword; let CHRIST make these divisions. If you KNOW something, then by definition, you will not need to question, or ask, "Do I really?" ... or wonder, CAN Truth be Known? By definition, to KNOW a thing, is to be REMOVED from all doubt regarding that subject, or this pariticular matter (technically, the doubt subsides from our awareness, and in that moment, no obstruction clouds our reflection, in outer, brain awareness - of Inner FACT). But this is a different kind of `fact' than we are used to, and the concrete mind will set at work, often in the very next moment following upon our realization. Before a few minutes have passed, we will once again be thrown in with doubt, suspicion and mistrust - where others are involved - and even an Apostle will find himself confused by what has transpired.

    Or are we convinced ... that we are better than this - and that surely, not us, not I, will be IN DOUBT, once I have glimpsed something of TRUTH?

    Truth, as some will long ago have realized, is very much like a Chalice at times, and the Whole Purpose for that CHALICE ... will become revealed as having been the preparation to RECEIVE a `measure of' that Truth, which both IS the Chalice, and is also that which the Chalice holds. Not simply so that WE may receive, but so that we may learn to turn, and Serve others ... THIS too, is an important aspect, or realization of THE Truth.

    See if this does not match up with what Christ Himself declared, what Christ Himself brought, showed us and taught us regarding Himself, His Mission and our greatest (potential) Service among our fellow Humanity!
     

Share This Page