If God spoke again, would you listen?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Student of Knowledge, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    I am not a saint, just another human. Preaching is easier. :eek:
     
  2. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Aupmanyav "the iron bars continue" as Phillip Dick put it. The invaders are everywhere and everywhen... 'tis the nature of being human to have oppressors and "me-firsters" and exclusionists.

    As Kazantzakis (you really should look at some of his work on the web) pointed out, we should grow from family to tribe to city to nation-state to race to species to world to world-for-many-years to come (like the Haudenosaunee "unto the seventh generation"). I never really get much further than nation-state in my "everyday" mind. In prayer and meditation I get further.

    I do like reading your posts!
     
  3. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    A human that no longer has to search, that reports they the have all the answers to their questions.

    I don't plan to retire. I have a gentleman close to 70 years old working with me that spent most of his life relatively close to your part of the world. I think he might have retired if he came across greater economic fortune, but I don't know. He still has need to ask questions and find answers. I will too at his age. I have respect for the guy, as he humbles himself and more or less follows me with work. I plan to never retire, no matter the fate or fortune.
     
  4. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    I have seen that pitch fork before.

    bhaktajan, If Hare Krishna is your Lord, please show me where in his words, he taught followers like yourself to chant his name. Show me where he told you that chanting his name would bring them whatever it is that you claim it brings.

    "Repeat after me, this will help save you." I recall that required pledge of allegiance in kindergarten, when a child doesn't even fully know what it means. I recall the alleged Christian preacher that held my hands and said I had to repeat after him, "Jesus did all of the work and took away all of my sins." I couldn't honestly say that, so the man gave me the evil eye and said I wasn't ready. I recall the school teacher that makes students write her sayings on the chalk board until their arm goes numb. I recall my exploration of the free-masons where I deviated from their, "repeat after me", which was quite the unholy oath. Sort of like the Catholic priest that says, "Say 10 Hail Mary's for your sin", as if that were repentance in place of confessing to those that the person sinned against.

    Yes, Jesus taught an example of a prayer. No, I certainly do not view that is merely what should be said with God. As an example in the gospel, Jesus praised and prayed to his father, using his words.

    Personally, I'm going to speak the truth as I know it, and if I conjecture then I should identify it. I am not going to tell people to chant and repeat after me, that would not be truthful. If someone tells me to say something, and I don't understand or agree, then I'm going to say, "This person told me to say...".
     
  5. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    You see, Leucy7, I am equally humble. But it is a matter of fact statement.
     
  6. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    That should not be difficult for Bhaktajan to answer. Did not your God say "I am your Lord God and you should worship no other but me." Krishna said:

    "Mam-manā bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yājī mām namaskuru;
    mām eva eṣyasi satyam te, pratijāne priyo 'si me."


    Think of Me, become My devotee, offer homage to Me and worship Me. To Me, verily, you certainly will come. I promise, you are dear to Me.

    BhagawadGita is after all, a theist scripture. But there are many things that even an atheist like me too, can learn from it.
     
  7. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Poetry enbreve.

    IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
    While I read you un-abridged commentary on a topic you make no claim to being expert at, namely, Vedic tradition and history and stature in geo-politics . . . only one immediate image came to my mind:

    I recalled the "Diary of Anne Frank" ---and Europa Fubar.

    Seems there are great gaping chasms of World History on the radar of 99% Masses.

    "Europa Fubar defacto" was your grandparents destiny.

    The Task should be to NOT be doomed to repeat History due to "lack of Attention" and "Hubris" and "Lethargy" ---but those lessons are lernt and helmed by and for the Leading 1%-ers and their squires.

    Ja. I'll be Back.
     
  8. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    So again, whenever you wish to drop your lack of attention, hubris, or lethargy:

    If Hare Krishna is your Lord, show me where in his words, he taught followers like yourself to chant his name. Show me where he told you that chanting his name would bring them whatever it is that you claim it brings.
     
  9. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    This is the cutest request I have ever heard!

    <BTW, I just remembered that my epithet: "Hare Krishna Devotee" may appear alien and cause one's heart to jump a beat and send a chill up one's spine>

    I haven't mentioned this have I?

    What does Krishna Consciousness claim to bring ... to mind?

    That's a very ratified query. Most westerners inquire into the topics of Meditation and Zen-Mindfullness and mantras and hatha-yoga exercises and most famously Codified Metaphysics of the construction of Physical Time and space what to speak of the Sanskrit Vedic Literatures are the mother-source of the sciences of astronomy, astrology, mathematics, the number zero, Sanskrit, the mother tongue of the Language group known as, "Indo-European family of Languages".

    But most interestingly, What is Krishna? Who is Krishna? What is it about Krishna?

    Is Krishna a man? Is Krishna a cowboy ranch hand? Is Krishna the source of MahaVishnu Plenary Expansions?
    Is Krishna the exclusive boyfreind of Shrimati Radhika?
    Is Krishna the original-original form (sva-rupa) of Godhead's personage?

    So many "Krishna Conscious Questions"

    In the Gita, Krishna advises approaching a Guru with earnest questions...

    This also applies to learning a trade or profession and even more when attending business conferences to brush up on the newest advancements ---or, realistically too, when paying higher taxes each year. Tax-Accountants are worth their weight in gold!

    So you ask that you want scriptural citations for the injunctions of Congregation Chanting of the names of God ----this is called in sanskrit:

    "Hari Nama Sankirtana" Yagna.

    Yajna (pron: Jagya) means Sacrifice or Discipline.

    Congregation Chanting of the names & Pastimes of Godhead
    (aka, Gospel choir music --in sanskrit,
    this Yoga discipline is called "Hari Nama Sankirtana" Yagna)
    is the PRESCRIBED YOGA DISCIPLINE
    for this fallen age known as "kali-yuga".

    As per the Vedic Histories: the age of "kali-yuga" is the last of the Four Epochs.
    FYI: The first epoch was the Golden Age ---the era transpired farther in the past than any Western history books have ever dared to claim.

    FYI: In the third yuga or epoch, Man lived to 1,000 years old.
    This explains away OT Noah's age.

    In the present "kali-yuga" man lives to 100 years.

    In accord with the cosmic path toward societal entropy.
    Hindu Religious Yoga disciplines have been distilled down ---for the merciful concession for common people of the world--- Yoga disciplines for kali-yuga are all-encompassed through "God's Holy Name".

    ---interestingly, the fame of Krishna and the Name of Krishna could ONLY be delivered by Devotees of Krishna.

    ---and even more interestingly, but un-foreseeable since Columbus was seeking India's cuisine secrets, the Hare Krishnas are directly responsible for the emminant spread of the fame of World Class Gourmet Vegetarian Cooking!

    The R&R I have been allotted is a near-do-wells Lethargy.
    But, I owe salutations to mentors whose Lethargy is the most sublime sat-sanga. Don't you know?
    To the least of "ashram pot washers" everywhere ---[like Gordon Liu of the 36th Chamber Shaw Brothers Films]--- may I have the honor to step in as a substitute pot washer when ever those "ashram pot washers" call in sick.

    That's a special sort of Lethargy.

    Do you every sweep the street outside your residence?
    That's a special sort of Lethargy.

    IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

    I forgot to answer your question?
    I can't remember what the question was.
    But did I already answer it?
    What was the question again?

    Before I digress again.
    Tell me What was the question again?
     
  10. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    So I guess I am clear then bhaktajan:

    Jesus Christ did NOT teach of a Santa Claus with reindeer.
    Hare Krishna did NOT teach anyone to go around chanting his name like a mindless zombie.

    If you believe otherwise, feel free to show where you think Krishna taught it.
     
  11. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Yes that is correct. Run with that. It's the best I can hope For. God Speed.

    IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

    "mindless zombie" ---is there any other type?


    Oh, I forgot to show where you think Krishna taught it ,
     
  12. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    I guess I can start with what I can find from Bhagavad-Gita:

    7.8—I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable Om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and Ability in man.

    9.17—I am the father of this universe. I am the mother. I am the support and the grandsire. I am the object of knowledge. I am the purifier and the syllable ‘Om’. I am also the Rg, the Sama and the Yajur Vedas.

    10.25—Of the great sages I am Bhrgu. Of vibrations I am the transcendental “Om”. Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names [japa]. Of immovable things I am the Himalayas.

    Next I will cite mountains worth of chapter and verses ---but for now, I'll leave you with the ever famous "Thousand Names Of Vishnu"
     
  13. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    I guess I can start with what I can find from Bhagavad-Gita:

    7.8—I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable Om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and Ability in man.

    9.17—I am the father of this universe. I am the mother. I am the support and the grandsire. I am the object of knowledge. I am the purifier and the syllable ‘Om’. I am also the Rg, the Sama and the Yajur Vedas.

    10.25—Of the great sages I am Bhrgu. Of vibrations I am the transcendental “Om”. Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names [japa]. Of immovable things I am the Himalayas.

    Next I will cite mountains worth of chapter and verses ---but for now, I'll leave you with the ever famous "Thousand Names Of Vishnu"
     
  14. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu_sahasranama

    "Thousand Names Of Vishnu"
    aka
    "Vishnu_sahasranama"

    It is also one of the most sacred and commonly chanted stotras in Hinduism.

    stotra = prayers.

    In this case "Vishnu_sahasranama" is a string of names.

    Wiki bits for you,
    Bhaktajan
     
  15. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    It is encouraging to hear then that Hare Krishna did not teach to chant his name. According to that wiki, is looks like Bhishma was a culprit:

    Did Hare Krishna chant his name?
     
  16. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    Leucy7, you are not getting the name correctly. 'Hare Krishna' is not the name of a person. It is an exclaimation in praise of Krishna, just like 'hallelouiyah', which many hindus chant. 'Hare Krishna' is a composite of 'Hari' (a name of Vishnu) and Krishna.

    Swami Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada was a teacher (acharya) of the sect, which was established by Chaitanya in 15th Century.

    Vishnu and Krishna are not two Gods, Krishna is considered to be an avatara of Vishnu with all his attributes (full avatara - purna avatara, according to some hindu sects, and that the other avataras are only partial avataras).

    Well, Bhishma thought that 'Vishnu Sahastranama' (thousand names of Lord Vishnu) is the universal remedy. That does not bar hindus from thinking that there are other remedies. Other hindus may have Shiva or Mother Goddess as their chosen deity. Some believe that pouring oblations to Gods is the only correct way. Some others may be atheists like me. Hinduism is not a monolithic religion.
     
  17. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    It is evengelisation by Abrahamic religions which creates problems, whether christian or muslim. Sometimes it is peaceful, other times it is violent. The Koreans and natives of Brazil are even now undergoing violent evengalisation. Who stops you from having your views, no matter if they are correct or wrong. Why should you try to impose them on others by tricks or force?
     
  18. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    a] Who is "Hare Krishna"?

    b] As per tradition, before one pronounces the name of God, Krishna ---one must pronounce the name of God's Eternal Consort, "Srhee" or "Hare"

    "Hare" is the name "Hara". "Hara" is the feminine counterpart of Krishna.

    One cannot get the grace of God without gaining the Favor of his Prime devotee aka Shree, Hare, Lakshmee first. That is the protocol.

    c] Bhisma: Mankind will be free from all sorrows by chanting the "Vishnusahasranāma", which are the thousand names of the all-pervading Supreme Being Vishnu, who is the master of all the worlds, the supreme light, the essence of the universe and who is Brahman. All matter animate and inanimate reside in him, and he in turn resides within all matter
    Yes. This is great! It's like you are pointing out supposedly unknown mitzvas to an orthodox Jew. Hare Krishnas are the Hasidim of Hinduism.
    But you can call me "Vaishnava" any time.
    Devotees of Krishnas are "Vaishnava".
    Devotees of Vishnu are "Vaishnava".
    Krishna names are the same as Vishnu's.
    Krishna's personage is the most personal of revelations of Godhead Personified.

    d] You have earned my respects, for it is written:
    Bhagavad-gita 16.86:
    For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.

    PURPORT by Bhaktivedanta Swami
    Generally it is advised that Bhagavad-gita be discussed amongst the devotees only, for those who are not devotees will understand neither Krishna nor Bhagavad-gita.

    Those who do not accept Krishna as He is and Bhagavad-gita as it is should not try to explain Bhagavad-gita whimsically and become offenders. Bhagavad-gita should be explained to persons who are ready to accept Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

    It is a subject matter for the devotees only and not for philosophical speculators. Anyone, however, who tries sincerely to present Bhagavad-gita as it is will advance in devotional activities and reach the pure devotional state of life. As a result of such pure devotion, he is sure to go back home, back to Godhead.

    e] This may be presumptuous of me to ask, did you know "The mahabharata was written for laborers and women"

    The Bhagavata Purana states that the Mahabharata was written specifically for women and also men who were not in the priestly Brahmin caste :
    "Out of compassion, the great sage thought it wise that this would enable men to achieve the ultimate goal of life. Thus he compiled the great historical narration called the Mahabharata for women, laborers and friends of the twice-born."
    In several schools for Vedic priests, many graduates are women.

    Property rights
    Arthashastra and Manusamhita are sources about the woman's right to property or ‘Stridhan’, (literally meaning, property of wife). It is of two types: maintenance (in money or land), and anything else like ornaments given to her by her family, husband, in-laws, relatives and the friends of hers and her husband. This becomes the wife's personal property and she has exclusive rights over this property (money, land and personal property)
    Women in Hinduism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    BTW Your use of the word "Culprit" in connection to Bhishma ---is a self-initiating Tantric mantra into Judas Priests.

    Duryodhana was the bad guy. But you keep denigrating the Good Guy.

    Repeat the Propaganda enough times and THEY will believe it.

    I am the KRISHNA CHAITANYA"S CULT MEMBER ---What is your CULT bashing Cult? Is it Tax exempt?

    Do you think yourself expert in recognising "Falsity"?
     
  19. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't we discuss their reasons for meditating for more then 10 minutes before blanket statements like that?
     
  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    Sure. Meditation is for focusing the mind on a problem, IMHO. Does meditation for hours over months and years discloses anything?
     

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