God & god - "Know ye not that ye are gods?"

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Brad Watson Miami, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes Received:
    2
    Short reply (in line with my promise elsewhere), "elohim" (actually LHM) is what it reads. Means "gods", literally. It is plural. Like Thomas says "a royal we". I believe I noted that was referenced in the Talmud-Midrash, as well.

    Since "YHWH" is never really finished off with the appropriate vowels in the text, (remember, the points or vowels for "Adonai" were substituted so the believing Jew would not be led to pronounce the unpronounceable name) it could be "Yehweh", "Yahwah", "Yahweh" or "Yehwah" (as I understand it). No "M" or "im" at end so it cannot (by the rules of conjuction in Hebrew, again insofar as I understand them) be plural.
     
  2. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    If your God is male, it cannot be the absolute, for being male is an attribute. God has no attributes, else you have limited Him.

    Saying Him or He is also considered an honorific, but part of realizing divinity is to overcome gender. Since this is part of human divinity, it cannot be that it is different for the divine Himself. I hope this makes sense to you, but you are quite adamant about separating things it seems.

    God is one, when you divide you create two.

    Man can realize oneness, but only when he overcomes all twos.
     
  3. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    110
    The academic literatures that define propaganda usually relies on twisting facts. The citation above, is an example of mental speculation by an individual with only subjective and, ironically, self-angrandising into the bargain.

    In stating my critique herein, I am not being satirical, nor sarcastic nor sardonically dark & foreboding, nor insincere ---but there is an element of "Bizarro World" pathos being alluded to.
     
  4. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    My statement is not speculation at all, I speak on what I have experienced directly. You deny my statements because they are not truth for you, yet they were truth for Krishna and Ram and many others your faith glorifies, not to mention the related people like Shiva.

    Scholarship and academia are actually the ones which depend on mental speculation, for they are not familiar with what is said directly, they are studying the words without any real experience with the intent - it is hardly a wonder why they come up with wrong conclusions.

    Why do you consider my statements "Bizarro"? Do you think Krishna has said what he has said and that it only applies to him? No, he is telling you to realize these things for yourself too! Else what is the point of even teaching Arjuna anything if it isn't applicable to every man? Brahman pervades ALL things, he is within you and me, when you realize this and dissolve into that, there is no more you, then you too can say ahem bramisma - I am Brahman.

    If this is not the point of religion, if yoga talks about merging with something else, I would love to hear your speculation of what exactly that point is.
     
  5. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    110
    Yeah right.
    Stop kidding around. Really.
     
  6. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why do you believe these statements from Krishna, thousands of years ago, but cannot accept them from your contemporary? You idealize Krishna, and worship him on the grounds that he is different to you, higher than you.

    He is merely the tree that can result from your seed, each of us contains that seed, meditation and prayer is simply to water that seed and allow it to grow.

    There is no difference between yourself and Krishna, everything he says about himself you can realize in yourself, the same is true for Buddha, Jesus, Nanak, Muhammad, whosoever. Their truths are universal truths, their teachings are to transform each of us, they are not just lessons for life, they are to show us the very nature of life in its truest aspect - oneness.

    When you know yourself to be that one, not just logically but experientially, when you see nothing in the world but yourself, then you are brahman, you have climbed to the same heights as those you glorify now.
     
  7. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not kidding at all, I am very serious.

    What do you think enlightenment is? It means you become an avatar, God has descended on you, resides in you. This is the goal, whatever else you are pursuing is pointless.
     
  8. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    You have said before that you still have all these responsibilities as a house keeper, then you wonder why someone might have gone higher than you in your own time. You are clinging to things in this world, then wonder why you haven't experienced the other. You seem to think that God cannot take care of the mundane tasks in your life, will not take care of your day to day activities. You do not realize he has been doing it all along, you are just the observer of it.

    Your ego will not permit the realization of truth to happen for you, and because it has not happened to you you are hurt that it has happened to another. It is ok that it has happened to Krishna, that was long ago, it is not very damaging to your ego, you can worship him just fine. You cannot permit it can happen to someone you have encountered though...

    It really calls into question your very belief structure, for while you accept certain things of Krishna, you seem to actually think these things are impossible for man to achieve. What is the difference between you and Krishna though? It is only that he has stopped swimming against the ocean, he has cleared his mirror, even if you say he was born an incarnation it only means he has never fought the current, never accumulated dust. We are each incarnations of God, for God is all there is, yet incarnation itself infers a separation - you must realize the separation is false.

    There is only truth.
     
  9. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    110
    Oh you're such a satirical one arn't you.

    Stop the tickling jumbo-mambo.

    You're getting snickers from the gallery.

    A poster named Lunitik pontificating over Krishna's statements . . . as Tracy Jordan says: "Itz Hilarius, indubitably".

    One question, when you post, are you wearing any clothes.
    You better check carefully.
    You're shiney hiney is definately making a show in your literal spoutings.

    You must have known this at the beginning of your musings.

    lets talk,
    Bhaktajan

    PS: I'll teach everything I know, once you jettison the floatsom helming your ship, before you hit the rocks.
     
  10. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sannyas does not mean run from the world, if you cannot be in the world your sannyas is not very much worthwhile. Sannyas means to renounce your ego, to see you are simply the watcher of all that is happening. It is to be indifferent to the world around you as if it just a play you have gone to watch. Yes, experience the emotions and enjoy the drama of it, but remain separate, when the scene is through do not drag it along with you... just allow it to be completely done.

    You think there is a clear distinction between housekeeper and renunciate, there does not have to be.
     
  11. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Your knowledge is worth nothing, for it is not based on your own experience.
     
  12. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    True knowing is not available from a book, the book was true for someone else, but truth cannot be expressed in language it has to be experienced directly to understand.

    When you point at the moon, the finger only gives an inclination. If you continue to simply look at the finger, how can you understand what the moon is like?

    Similarly, if you explain everything available to a blind man about light, will it help him to know light? He will think he knows much about light, for this information looks very valuable, he can explain everything now it seems... yet still he does not know what light is, it is still a theory for him.

    This is the common condition of most believers, they are blind or they remain fixated on the finger. You will have to look at the moon, you will have to experience light, anything less is just wasting your time.

    There is no rush though, there is eternity.

    I only ask: Why wait for tomorrow when it can be done today?
     
  13. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    110
    "not based on your own experience"

    The Vietnam War and Rock'nRoll and the Berlin-Wall and the Italian Mafia are all passe. Develope an new "Catch Phrase" and remember the TAXMAN don't care about your phobias or your ad hominem opining over other's assumed traumatic events.

    You're experiences differ no more than any one else.

    Lunitik, you are a fiction of existence, you know it, you feel it, you fear it ---too bad for your temporary fleeting existence.
     
  14. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    If these things comfort you when reading my words, it is fine.

    I speak the truth, you do not have to accept it.

    You have said something important though: we are all a fiction of existence. Existence is experiencing the world through you, you are as a dream or idea of existence. You can call existence Brahman or Elohim or Omkar or Allah or Dharmakaya, the name is irrelevant.

    The goal is to wake up and realize you are the one dreaming you.
     
  15. donnann

    donnann Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    2
    I believe sometimes your dreaming even when your awake but sometimes your fully awake or enlightened.
     
  16. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Certainly, for a time, you will fall back down, or maybe there is great effort to wake up constantly - this is normal.

    That wakefulness does not need fade, however, it is possible to maintain it. Maybe how it is perceived changes - sometimes oneness is known, sometimes you feel yourself in all things yet duality is still there, many directions of truth can be discovered. Something can remain always though, that one that is witness to the change - it is always there, even in sleep it can persist.

    Who is that witness? Who are you? This is the question.

    If it is perceived, it cannot be you, for you are the one perceiving. Can even the perceiver be perceived? It is as the eye, it cannot look on itself but with a mirror. Here in lies the reason for existence...

    Find out who you are, look into the heart, the center of your being and see what is there.

    When you are not, truth is... allow truth to arise, to absorb you.

    This is religion, this is merging with the divine, realizing your divinity, entering the Kingdom of God... now all is that, now you know heaven. So many long their whole lives for it, they didn't have to wait.

    Repent, return to the source, stop sinning, stop missing the target.

    Let Go.

    This is what Jesus means when he says drop your will and accept the will of God. God's will is to look on himself through you, to experience all through you, your will is to remain as you are. Which will you choose?

    Remaining separate is the ego, it is your personal will.

    It is strange, for this cannot be for long, and it will never fulfill your longing - you will try to accumulate money, you will try to do service, you will try to help others, still there is something missing. Eventually, you see that all this must be dropped, for you will leave this body, all things that are born must die.

    What you truly are has never been born, can never die.

    Yet you choose the temporary.
     
  17. donnann

    donnann Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    2
    I have fallen back of sorts. I really need to find people who believe in the same things I do. Having friends and associates that are doing other things is fine but I have no communion with those who are vegans so I have slipped, kinda fallen off my horse. I am going back to veganism slowly so I am getting back up on my horse again and hopefully when I do I wont ever backslide again.
     
  18. donnann

    donnann Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    2
    This song reminds me of me and god the father. Tim Mcgraw - My Little Girl - YouTube
     
  19. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    By dropping, I do not mean you have to avoid, you simply have to drop your identification with it. It is easy to avoid and pretend you are not identified, you can put on a good show. Renouncing, though, you have the same obsessions but instead of embracing them now you run from them. It is the obsessing, the attachment that must go.

    You are not the doer, you are the observer. The observer does not go into the negative or positive, it watches both. All is equal to the observer, no comparisons are considered, for it is all divine and necessary.

    Without the negative, the positive is nothing. Without the positive, there is no negative. Realizing it is just projection, why become caught in it? Just enjoy, but remain aware of what you are.

    There will be great bliss, there will be great sorrow, go into both deeply when they arise. Now simply look, again it is perception - from where is the perception arising?

    True happiness is found when you are content simply being, when you are overjoyed by the simple miracle that you are. It all seems utterly impossible, that wonder, that constant surprise that this is, that you are here to experience it. What more can be done? What to say of it?

    It is no ordinary contentment, it is an utterly different dimension. Such energy always, yet calm. So happy and yet sad, all the opposites are there at once, yet you float above it all just playing the game.

    This is enlightenment and beyond.
     
  20. donnann

    donnann Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    2
    Faith Hill - Come Home (2012 People's Choice Awards) HD 720p - YouTube
     

Share This Page