The Elements

[Hermes]

It took me a lot of time and contemplation to grasp the fundamentals of the elements. First, the biggest hindrance anyone can have is to link the elements to their mundane, earthy equivalents when in truth they are far bigger and all encompassing - for example Earth is not physical dirt or the globe earth, it has certain characteristics matching but "Earth" element is a combination of all the elements;
Bardon writes;
"All the life created can therefore be explained by the fact that all elements are active in the fourth, i.e., the earth element. Through realization in this element came out the Fiat, “It shall be”....
In addition, all elements contain a positive(+) and negative(-) trait, the positive is constructive and the negative is destructive. In simplistic, human religious theme, this could be construed as good and evil but in reality it is not a question of good or bad, it is positive or negative = polarity, that's all.
What is your understanding of the Elements? Did you find it easy to fully grasp?

 

[Etu Malku]

I like Bardon, don't get me wrong, but you'd think in all of his Hermetic studies he would grasp the simple Hermetic concept that positive/negative are NOT opposites but are polar extremes of the same thing as are all supposed opposites.

The Luciferian Elements
Dæmon – Higher Self
Belial – Earth North
Lucifer – Air East
Satan - Fire South
Leviathan – Water West
​

 

[seattlegal]

The 5 purified elements are represented by the 5 female Buddhas, the consorts of the 5 Dhyani Buddhas.

The five female buddhas of the five families, also known as the five mothers (Wyl. yum lnga) are:

1. Dhatvishvari (Skt.; Tib. དབྱིངས་ཕྱུག་མ་, Ying Chukma) also known as Vajra Datvishvari or White Tara, the consort of Vairochana, who represents the purity of the element space
2. Buddhalochana (Skt.; Tib. སངས་རྒྱས་སྤྱན་, Sangyé chenma) the consort of Akshobhya, who represents the purity of the element earth
3. Mamaki (Skt.; Tib. མ་མ་ཀི་, Mamaki) the consort of Ratnasambhava, who represents the purity of the element water
4. Pandaravasini (Skt.; Tib. གོས་དཀར་མོ་, Gökarmo) the consort of Amitabha, who represents the purity of the element fire
5. Samayatara (Skt.; Tib. དམ་ཚིག་སྒྲོལ་མ་, Damtsik Drolma) also known as Green Tara, the consort of Amoghasiddhi, who represents the purity of the element wind.

-source-


I'm thinking that Buddhalochana is water and Mamaki is earth. lemme double check.


This source is different, and is of the associations that I'm more familiar with

Locana puja
Mamaki Puja
Pandaravasini Puja
Tara Puja (updated)

Akasadhatesvari Puja

​

Here's the wiki article on the Dhyani Buddhas, with their associated elements and directions listed.

 

[Hermes]

Well, that's one way of looking at it - and I am not knowledgeable about Luciferian school) ...but in the boarder, general understading of the four elements - fire, water, air, earth and the fifth the akasha(ether) - I am talking is a description/understading of an Element from its positive and negative effect/attribute.
This dual, inner nature is the paradox and apparent mystery of truly understanding the elements, which would be the prerequisite of using them or wielding them in your bidding. So if you wish to create something, a certain use of the Element and its (+) creative aspect could be utilized, conversely when you wish to destroy something the proper Element, utilizing its (-) attribute should be employed.

I like Bardon, don't get me wrong, but you'd think in all of his Hermetic studies he would grasp the simple Hermetic concept that positive/negative are NOT opposites but are polar extremes of the same thing as are all supposed opposites.

The Luciferian Elements
Dæmon – Higher Self
Belial – Earth North
Lucifer – Air East
Satan - Fire South
Leviathan – Water West
​

 

[seattlegal]

I like Bardon, don't get me wrong, but you'd think in all of his Hermetic studies he would grasp the simple Hermetic concept that positive/negative are NOT opposites but are polar extremes of the same thing as are all supposed opposites.

The Luciferian Elements
Dæmon – Higher Self
Belial – Earth North
Lucifer – Air East
Satan - Fire South
Leviathan – Water West
​

Buddhist Elements and directions

Space/form--center
Water/consciousness--east
fire/perception--west
earth/feeling--south
air/mental formations-concept--north
​

 

[seattlegal]

Buddhism also has the positive and negative aspects associated with the elements, but positive aspect is viewed as the negative aspect transformed:

space--ignorance/laziness--buddha wisdom
water--anger/aggression--mirror-like wisdom
fire--selfishness/desire--discriminating wisdom
earth--pride/greed--equanimous wisdom
air--jealousy/envy--all-accomplishing wisdom

 

[Hermes]

Thanks for the post. I know precious little about the different branches of religions and I always seek to find and recognize the common traits which I call the ancient wisdom. The Hindu faith that to some extent Buddhism had built upon use the term Tattwas for the elements.
According to the Indian succession of the tattwas, it runs as follows:
Akasa ~ principle of the ether
Tejas ~ principle of the fire
Prithivi ~ principle of the earth

Buddhism also has the positive and negative aspects associated with the elements, but positive aspect is viewed as the negative aspect transformed:

space--ignorance/laziness--buddha wisdom
water--anger/aggression--mirror-like wisdom
fire--selfishness/desire--discriminating wisdom
earth--pride/greed--equanimous wisdom
air--jealousy/envy--all-accomplishing wisdom

 

[seattlegal]

Thanks for the post. I know precious little about the different branches of religions and I always seek to find and recognize the common traits which I call the ancient wisdom. The Hindu faith that to some extent Buddhism had built upon use the term Tattwas for the elements.
According to the Indian succession of the tattwas, it runs as follows:
Akasa ~ principle of the ether
Tejas ~ principle of the fire
Prithivi ~ principle of the earth

I see the Tibetan Buddhist system as being more focused on internal alchemy and transformation than external manipulation. Alchemy isn't about mixing up a funky elixir in the lab, imo.

 

[Vajradhara]

I see the Tibetan Buddhist system as being more focused on internal alchemy and transformation than external manipulation. Alchemy isn't about mixing up a funky elixir in the lab, imo.

you're quite correct... indeed... many people in China died as a result of ingesting the Elixir of Immortality otherwise known as the Gold Pill which many Taoists schools talk about. Liu I Ming clarifies these points quite well and, as he explains, breaks open the bones of dogma to expose the marrow of truth.

alchemy is, of course, something which is found throughout all cultures and traditions in some form another, in the classic First People's cultures, Shamans were given privileged roles in society yet were, paradoxically, social outcasts. they sat in the inner circle of decision making yet typically lived on the outskirts or even outside the group... it is an interesting thing to understand how being that can, for lack of a better term, touch "the other" are often valued and shunned/feared by general society.

of course the human body naturally produces a chemical called DMT which happens to be one of the most powerful hallucinogenics known to humanity at this point in time and as it is produced primarily in the pineal gland, which just so happens to correspond to the location of the "Third Eye", there is a fair amount of conjecture as to how much of an influence this has upon humanity as a whole and beings that experience the ineffable in particular. i would suggest that the opening of the Third Eye corresponds to an increased production of this chemical and given neural plasticity is something which can be consciously effected.

metta,

~v

 

[Hermes]

Yes, but you do not see anyone divulging these things, even his Holiness the Dalai Lama somehow omitted these things from his dozen or so books? The Tibetan school actually learned most of its deep mystical secrets from the Bon. (and they are not very open about these for a good reason - if you write a book on these things and someone learns something and misuses it - you (the author) are karmically responsible)

I see the Tibetan Buddhist system as being more focused on internal alchemy and transformation than external manipulation. Alchemy isn't about mixing up a funky elixir in the lab, imo.

 

[seattlegal]

you're quite correct... indeed... many people in China died as a result of ingesting the Elixir of Immortality otherwise known as the Gold Pill which many Taoists schools talk about. Liu I Ming clarifies these points quite well and, as he explains, breaks open the bones of dogma to expose the marrow of truth.

alchemy is, of course, something which is found throughout all cultures and traditions in some form another, in the classic First People's cultures, Shamans were given privileged roles in society yet were, paradoxically, social outcasts. they sat in the inner circle of decision making yet typically lived on the outskirts or even outside the group... it is an interesting thing to understand how being that can, for lack of a better term, touch "the other" are often valued and shunned/feared by general society.

of course the human body naturally produces a chemical called DMT which happens to be one of the most powerful hallucinogenics known to humanity at this point in time and as it is produced primarily in the pineal gland, which just so happens to correspond to the location of the "Third Eye", there is a fair amount of conjecture as to how much of an influence this has upon humanity as a whole and beings that experience the ineffable in particular. i would suggest that the opening of the Third Eye corresponds to an increased production of this chemical and given neural plasticity is something which can be consciously effected.

metta,

~v

Thanks vaj.

 

[seattlegal]

Yes, but you do not see anyone divulging these things, even his Holiness the Dalai Lama somehow omitted these things from his dozen or so books? The Tibetan school actually learned most of its deep mystical secrets from the Bon. (and they are not very open about these for a good reason - if you write a book on these things and someone learns something and misuses it - you (the author) are karmically responsible)

I once lamented to a Sufi about how getting information out of Buddhists is like pulling teeth. He replied, "Buddhism is like pulling teeth."

 

[Vajradhara]

Yes, but you do not see anyone divulging these things, even his Holiness the Dalai Lama somehow omitted these things from his dozen or so books? The Tibetan school actually learned most of its deep mystical secrets from the Bon. (and they are not very open about these for a good reason - if you write a book on these things and someone learns something and misuses it - you (the author) are karmically responsible)

actually, His Holiness has commented directly on various tantric systems used throughout Tibet and they originate with the 84 Mahasiddhas of India rather than from within the Bon-po tradition, even though the Bon-po tradition does have it's own variation it would be more akin to Shamanism than Tantra per se.

metta,

~v

 

[Vajradhara]

I once lamented to a Sufi about how getting information out of Buddhists is like pulling teeth. He replied, "Buddhism is like pulling teeth."

LOL... what teeth?



metta,

~v

 

[Hermes]

Which of his book would you be referring to? Or was it a talk, interview?

actually, His Holiness has commented directly on various tantric systems used throughout Tibet and they originate with the 84 Mahasiddhas of India rather than from within the Bon-po tradition, even though the Bon-po tradition does have it's own variation it would be more akin to Shamanism than Tantra per se.

metta,

~v

 

[Vajradhara]

Which of his book would you be referring to? Or was it a talk, interview?

he speaks and writes often of the Kalachakra Tantra and frequently gives mass initiations into this particular tantric practice. you can find a book written by him called, well, Tantra of Tibet where he uses many of Tsongkapa's writings on the subject and, recall, he's the leader of the Gelug school and not all schools follow his directives on this matter. another book which is a compilation of various Dalai Lamas called, well, The Dalai Lamas on Tantra.

metta,

~v

 

[Etu Malku]

The Qliphothic Rulers of the Elements
1.Amaymon-Air,East
2.Goap-Fire, South
3.Ziminiar-Water, North
4.Corson-Earth, West

 

[Bhaktajan II]

I always seek to find and recognize the common traits which I call the ancient wisdom.

Here is a summary cheat sheet chart I drew up.
It is taken directly from the Bhagavata-Purana. Any Chapter/Verse numbers seen footnoted are from that Vedic writ.

 

[Hermes]

Thanks for the responses. Let me post something Rawn Clark wrote on this, as usual he penetrates into the essence of things and clarifies them (at least for me...)

"The philosophy of Elements is, obviously, a human construct. It is
one way in which we humans have attempted to describe the workings of the
universe. But even though it is a human construct this does not negate the fact
that it describes a real thing. To my mind, it is a description that works well.
It gives me a tool by which I can work with the actual forces that it tries to
describe. Granted, it is imperfect and does not exactly match the reality of
things, but then again, an exact match would be impossible.
The forces that underlie the Elements do exist regardless of whether
or not we try to describe them and regardless of whether or not humans are
around to perceive them.
There are two very important things to keep in mind when working
with the Elements. First is that the Elements are not the same as the physical
phenomena whose names they share. For example, the Element Fire is not the
same as the physical phenomena of fire. The names of the Elements are de-
rived through the "law" of analogy. This means that the Element Fire pos-
sesses many of the characteristics of physical fire, such as expansiveness,
heat, brightness, and the ability to transform what it touches.
All to often the student falls into the trap of drawing too close a rela-
tionship between the Elements and their analogous physical phenomena. This
tends to obscure the deeper significance of the Elements and should, there-
fore, be avoided.
Second in importance regarding the Elements is the fact that in our
physical realm, the Elements never act alone. All physical things are a combi-
nation of the Elements. For example, the physical phenomena of fire is not
composed solely of the Fire Element. Instead, physical fire is composed of all
four Elements working together (plus the fifth -- Akasha). A physical thing
may show a predominance of one Element over the others, but it still contains
all four.
The Elements exist in their pristine, separate sense only in the most
rarified reaches of the astral and mental planes."