About occultists

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by taijasi, Feb 10, 2012.

  1. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Alright, since the issue of alien contact is worth discussing, imho, and since it deserves a thread of its own ... rather than becoming a complete diversion to the progress of *this* thread ... I'll start one in the appropriate spot here at Interfaith.

    My response to the above post is forthcoming, and for anyone interested (primarily ResistET, possibly others) please visit this link to discuss aliens and such.

    Further discussion on the current thread should be about modern esotericism, from 19th century Theosophy and related groups to the present, etc.

    Thanks! :)
     
  2. Servetus

    Servetus New Member

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    I ill-advisedly used my brain as bait and, though I caught the dragon, was never really able to recover my brain.

    Cheers, Andrew. I am still, at times, researching Steiner's links to the OTO (via Theodor Reuss) but did understand, too, that, with respect to Theosophy vs. Anthroposophy and as you have suggested, his break (politically) was more with Annie Bessant than HPB.

    Best regards,

    Serv
     
  3. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky New Member

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    i don't think anyone will mind if I skirt the whole HPB and alien themes, and head back to the original idea?

    occultists:

    I think the only point that needs to be made is this: does the individual acknowledge Divinity? I am not even particular about how, just that they have thoughts about divinity and keep the idea firmly in mind when consulting their devices... until the abilities develop naturally.
    That - in my belief - makes them a spiritual seeker, not an occultist...

    An occultist, in my belief, again - is one who is willing to use DEVICES ( be they mental, physical, or emotional ) as a shortcut to doing the spiritual work which brings the ability naturally. The ones who historically did such, while denying Divinity as the source, were considered Magicians and Sorcerers.
    From my experience that also is the differentiating factor between a Prophet and a Sorcerer.... the Acknowledgment of Divinity as source of All.
     
  4. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    An Occultist is someone who seeks the mysteries, the hidden, the Leviathan of existence and non-existence. Ir Shti Shta-tu - Reyn til Runa - Seek the Mysteries!
     
  5. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    To go back to the "roots", occultism differs from run of the mill spiritualism only in that it holds some kind of "hidden teaching" (IMHO). Thus, Theosophy, Wicca (some forms like OTO), Heremeticism, Gnosticism are all forms of it.... which is where I think it all traces back to. Heremetics perhaps "hid" their dualist (Gnostic) beliefs in a specific kind of writing that had to be deconstructed (predating Post-Modernists by 1500 or so years) because, as the Albigensian and Bosnian Crusades showed, you could be killed "in the name of god" for uttering them openly. That is just my opinion.

    Occultists are thus a sub-type of spiritualist (those seeking the ruah, spirit, D!vine) who believe the truth is hidden in a particular text or group. They do not necessarily use short-cuts (in my opinion... Kabbalah and "Fourth Way" are certainly not easy nor short), but may. Very great insights can be found in their public teaching.

    However, all of that being said, I am a simple daoist-ch'an influenced Quaker (we have no dogma and accept scriptures as "words of G!d to man" rather thatn "G!d's Word"--for the most part, since we have no doctrine). G!dess, in H!r Perfection, would give us the tools (mind and spirit) to make sense of H!r Kosmos and lead us back to H!r bosom. Hiding H!s word, like providing H!s word to only some select group (Salifasts, Evangelicals, Kachists, or whatever), just does not "square" with my knowledge of a loving and just G!d.
     
  6. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    Woa! Hey I don't appreciate being put into a box like that. Kidding. :p I don't know a lot of occult things, but since you are just tossing around definitions, I'll drop in on you. I wonder what you have to say about this:

    An occultist could conceivably fit that description, but there are lots of occultists who aren't seeking those mysteries at all but are either selling mysteries or simply accepting them. Also, if you use that definition for occultist you take in huge numbers of people who don't consider themselves to be occultists or even know what your definition is. I am an occultist by that definition, and a cat desiring to understand how a toilet flushes could be considered an occultist. However, using that definition, most people that it considers occultists would not consider me or a cat to be occultists.
     
  7. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    You are aware that; The word occult comes from the Latin word occultus (clandestine, hidden, secret), referring to "knowledge of the hidden"?

    Therefore, an Occultist is by definition someone that seeks the 'hidden' knowledge.

    What would you believe this term to mean?
     
  8. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    I am not sure. Taking some cues from you I need a definition that is connected with the Latin word 'occultus' which is still relevant in the modern world and which best describes the set of people who seek 'the hidden knowledge' without including cats or disinterested persons.

    Temporary Definition of Occultist:
    An occultist is a person who presumes and seeks or obtains a low visibility knowledge that is hidden, or clandestine or/and also secret. Usually it is thought to be an ancient and very important knowledge and excludes lesser types of knowledge. Occultists may differ on what types of knowledge are greater or lesser, however it is knowledge that was hidden by someone other than themselves or be intrinsically hidden, must remain secret after they discover it and must impact their lives significantly Finally, an occultist must be willing to exert a lot of time and energy and be very interested in seeking the aforementioned hidden knowledge, or they are not an occultist.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2012
  9. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    :cool: . . . how cute.
    When understood correctly, 'WE' are all occultists in some way, the mysteries and hidden agenda of life is what we endlessly question.

    Ir Shti Shta-tu - Reyn til Runa = Seek the Mysteries!
    Leviathan is the West . . . go there.
     
  10. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    OK, what about Behemoth and Ziz, then? (And what is lurking in the fourth direction? :eek:)
     
  11. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    Ah, behold that tasty Ziz. I'd love to get my fork and knife into that yummy, yummy Ziz. Unfortunately it takes a very long time to cook a Ziz, like years to cook a Ziz. Finding recipes can be difficult as the spices can rot before the Ziz finishes cooking. Salt wouldn't rot, but I am very fond of rosemary and lemon as flavoring agents. A possibility is to cook it with salt, then slice it thin for use on pizzas or sandwiches. If one were to have Ziz as a pizza topping, would one call it a Pizzizza?
     
  12. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    LOL. Etu Malku already has the dinner music composed in his Feast of Unas.

    If you want tips on how to cook a Ziz, see the book Mind Like Fire Unbound. :p
     
  13. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Cross-posted from Esoteric Christianity revisited:

    For those who wish to understand the basis of a Christian esotericism based on Theosophical principles and Teachings ...

    ... consider the continuity between 19th Century Occultism as popularized by H.P. Blavatsky and the 19 volumes of instruction for aspirants, disciples and initiates presented by Alice Bailey between 1919 and 1949.

    The aforementioned 19 volumes (written by Bailey) reach us from the same Tibetan Initiate who was largely responsible for H.P. Blavatsky's The Secret Doctrine, and many students of both sets of Teachings will recognize this continuity.

    I say again, students of both sets of teachings, because in 99% of the cases where someone of Theosophical background speaks out (usually against Alice Bailey), you will find that s/he has not actually taken much time to investigate the latter teachings impartially or as sincerely and devotedly as works of a Theosophical nature.

    Students of astrology, or the astute Theosopher, may be aware of statements made by HPB herself wherein a particular Samaritan cycle of interest is mentioned ... in which the Sun precessed into Pisces in 255BC, then into Aquarius in the year 1900AD.

    The Tibetan Master himself would seem to allow for the latter official date to be no later than the end of the second World War [June 1945], when the Christ "definitely and consciously took over His duties and responsibilities as the Teacher and Leader during the Aquarian solar cycle." [The Reappearance of the Christ, Alice A. Bailey, pp. 82-83]

    What this amounts to in simple terms is that many of the same astrological influences and energies which were available to HPB during the authorship, inspiration and precipitation of writings during the 19th Century would not be and were not available to Alice Bailey (or perhaps her Teachers?) during the first half of the 20th Century ... when Alice's books were penned.

    I share this because I know of no author during the 20th Century who contributed so much, so sincerely or so influentially on the Inner Side of life to the true heart and soul, the esoteric Cause, of Christ's own Christianity ... as Alice Bailey, combined with the true Heart and Soul of the books which she authored, the Tibetan Teacher DK.

    I heartily recommend the book From Bethlehem to Calvary, written by Alice Bailey *herself* ... and NOT dictated, channeled or otherwise "inspired directly" by some outside source, Eastern or otherwise.

    In this book, Alice tells us in her own words and in *Western terminology* of the five great crises of spiritual living or points of expansion of consciousness which marked the life of Jesus of Nazareth, and which are symbolic of the same five crises which each human Soul must someday undergo (John 14:6, John 6:44, John 12:32) ...

    ... on our long Journey from the unreal to the Real, from darkness unto Light and from death to Immortality. {for Theosophists, et al}

    ~+~

    I have run out of steam for the evening, but in a future post I believe I may be able to say a bit more about how Ariadne's Thread underlies or substands the transition from 19th Century Theosophy to the various related neo-Theosophical Movements of the early 20th Century ... focusing especially on this pressing question (troubling to some) of WHY so many Neo-Theosophists and modern esotericists are intent or inclined to speak in the language of Christianity, or using Christian myth and allegory.

    In the meantime, I believe the Intuition will serve to tell us much, if we ponder this question ... and I would welcome speculations, discussions or commentary on precisely this topic if there are those who have an especial interest.

    On the one hand, I would be tempted to take it as no great mystery as to why this is - even if, as students of Alice Bailey recognize, it is precisely the Restoration of THE Mysteries, Greater and Lesser, which the Christ and Hierarchy will bring.

    And yet, aren't we seeing precisely the cautioned-against effort to place new wine in old vessels ... ?

    Watch the responses and reactions of Christians, even those of some esoteric bent ... with and against those who hearken to a Perennial Tradition which dates [as per HPB, et al - even the Vedists themselves] to a time far, far earlier than Judaism, let alone the Christianity of Christ's day and since.

    What can it all mean? ;) :p

    If the answer appears to be clear, just remember:

    Christ and the Great Ones [the `Externalization of the Hierarchy'] ever come to UNIFY and to MAKE WHOLE, and the outstanding quality of Love-Wisdom is Inclusivity.

    If this is the case ... :)
     
  14. TruthSatnaam

    TruthSatnaam TruthSatnaam

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    Great^^^

    Satnaam Ji
     

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