real Islam

donnann

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I have heard the comparison made of looking at your body under a microscope. The cells will look distinct, separate if you zoom in far enough. You will not see how they can be working together in a single body, they look autonomous this close up. Yet, such is the case, we are all part of one body.

1 Corinthians 12:12-27 says this as well, but they have not seen atoms yet, else I think they'd agree moreso with the example of the atoms. It infers here that we are each an organ of God, but this gives the beings too much credit. In fact a country can be likened to an organ, or even a planet or even a solar system, but here it says a person. We are not so important as that, for in our lifetime every cell in our bodies are replaced every 7 years, this is more the importance of the human - just a part for a while.

Yet the body lives on, will you identify with the atom and its duty, or with the body itself?

I believe within the bodies are cells that have ,stem cells, a number that is each persons highest self and the openings to resurrection as well as union with ones own opposite. These cells have an unbreakable unchangable number that is the source of who you are and where you belong after resurrection.
 

NiceCupOfTea

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It is the infinite mind which has shown me they are not different at all.

they are different in my experience.

It is the closed mind which does not permit they be the same, the only difference is how truth is expressed, and yet always they are speaking of truth as I do. The messenger is always unique to himself, yet the message is always the same, what is conveyed never differs.

i disagree different traditional all contain truth and power if you are open to them. or you can view them in the context of your own like you, but this is not what they are its what you want them to be, so its all your ego wanting everything to conform.

Mind itself is the only differentiator, see without mind and you can see the beauty of it, otherwise you will analyze and destroy the beauty.

smug and superior as always.
tell does it come easy or is it something that you have had to work on ?
 

Lunitik

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Do you not see my words are utterly neutral? Truth has no flavor, it simply is.

Whatsoever you see as smug and superior is your own inferiority complex, please look into this. Also keep in mind that enlightenment is not about humility, neither is it possible for the enlightened man to be arrogant - ego is simply gone; without the pole of egoism, the two ends cannot be.

You see my certainly as arrogance because it disagrees with your belief, someone else will look on the same words and find them joyful. It is all in how you take them, but both are absent from the words themselves.
 

NiceCupOfTea

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Do you not see my words are utterly neutral? Truth has no flavor, it simply is.

Whatsoever you see as smug and superior is your own inferiority complex, please look into this. Also keep in mind that enlightenment is not about humility, neither is it possible for the enlightened man to be arrogant - ego is simply gone; without the pole of egoism, the two ends cannot be.

You see my certainly as arrogance because it disagrees with your belief, someone else will look on the same words and find them joyful. It is all in how you take them, but both are absent from the words themselves.

i see you as smug and arrogant because thats what you project, and plenty of others see you for what you are as well. ;)
 

Lunitik

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i see you as smug and arrogant because thats what you project, and plenty of others see you for what you are as well. ;)

That's just it, I project nothing, I merely respond.

Whatsoever is projected has not come from me, it can only be how you are reading my words.
 

kenshin

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thanks nice and thank you Lunitik
With regard to signs:
it means everything in your life that points to God. from a natural daily task which we take nothing than a formal act to beauties of earth and to special guidance of God. all of these are his signs from one level to another.
of course there are many personal signs too. for example you promise God to do something if he answers one of your wishes and God replies. it is a sign for you because you were the one to experience it.

and Lunitik is a sufi guy. don't argue with him. he is a man of pure spiritual experience not confined in words and rational ways. they don't like rational and theoretical methods and rejects mind as a tool to show the way. they depend on their spiritual experiences rather than their mind.
maybe we can't call them formal muslims, that's true. but it's not that they are completely out of islam.
as a matter of fact, I believe in the power of mind to find its lord, believe in the importance of deeds to strengthen your faith and soul, and in spiritual experience as a gate of truth seeing and in the end and the most important, in prophets and Quran.
 

Lunitik

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as a matter of fact, I believe in the power of mind to find its lord, believe in the importance of deeds to strengthen your faith and soul, and in spiritual experience as a gate of truth seeing and in the end and the most important, in prophets and Quran.

Mind can be used to find the Lord, the problem arises when the mind believes it is the one journeying home. The deeds we bring into the world are not that important, what matters is how we perform the deed. The simplest thing done in love is better than the greatest thing done in obligation, yet so often I see people doing charity work and the like because they feel they must, there is no joy for them in it.

The prophets are the example, but the true scripture is life itself, many of the words of Muhammad and Jesus can help but in the end you have to walk the way they have walked if you truly wish to find the Lord. Obeying them isn't going to help, it just ensures peace in the community, but it cannot bring peace to your heart.
 

NiceCupOfTea

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and Lunitik is a sufi guy. don't argue with him. he is a man of pure spiritual experience not confined in words and rational ways..

my instincts are usually very good on these matters and this character is a fictitious fake seeking glory.
 

Lunitik

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my instincts are usually very good on these matters and this character is a fictitious fake seeking glory.

How can glory be obtained through the other? This is not much glory, for it will depend on them, freedom cannot be dependent on anything, and only freedom brings true glory.

This is the whole problem with the society, everyone is seeking respect and acceptance because they do not know who they actually are. I merely point all at this, at their own fulfillment but I am irrelevant to that, just a sign post pointing the way.

I believe each human has an intrinsic dignity, and so I would never try to create dependence in them. This is my main problem with Jesus, he has robbed man of that dignity, I will not repeat the mistake.

Only truth can give it back, though.
 

NiceCupOfTea

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How can glory be obtained through the other? This is not much glory, for it will depend on them, freedom cannot be dependent on anything, and only freedom brings true glory.

This is the whole problem with the society, everyone is seeking respect and acceptance because they do not know who they actually are. I merely point all at this, at their own fulfillment but I am irrelevant to that, just a sign post pointing the way.

I believe each human has an intrinsic dignity, and so I would never try to create dependence in them. This is my main problem with Jesus, he has robbed man of that dignity, I will not repeat the mistake.

Only truth can give it back, though.

tell me does being smug arrogant come easily or is it is something that you have had to work on ?
 

Lunitik

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tell me does being smug arrogant come easily or is it is something that you have had to work on ?

Do you not see that it is you who is being smug and arrogant?

You should inquire into why you have responded this way to my words, is it you which is protesting, or are you simply empowering the protests of your mind?

Some part of you is drawn to me, yet mind pushes me away... find out who that one which will not let you ignore me is. It is the same one watching minds protests, the same one that empowers the mind. Residing in this one, mind does not arise, now it only obeys. This is to be a light unto yourself, I only show how to become your own master - right now you are a slave to your body and mind.

This is why people suffer in this life, they forget who they are.
 

NiceCupOfTea

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Do you not see that it is you who is being smug and arrogant?

You should inquire into why you have responded this way to my words, is it you which is protesting, or are you simply empowering the protests of your mind?

Some part of you is drawn to me, yet mind pushes me away... find out who that one which will not let you ignore me is. It is the same one watching minds protests, the same one that empowers the mind, residing in this one, mind does not arise. This is to be a light unto yourself, I only show how to become your own master - right now you are a slave to your body and mind.

This is why you suffer in this life.

i dislike people who think they are better than everyone else, i find it really annoying, and you think you are better than everyone else testiculating and pretending to be some sort of spiritual authority, if people want guidance they seek it out, you attempt inflict it on others this is delsusion and ego on your part.
 

Lunitik

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i dislike people who think they are better than everyone else, i find it really annoying, and you think you are better than everyone else testiculating and pretending to be some sort of spiritual authority, if people want guidance they seek it out, you attempt inflict it on others this is delsusion and ego on your part.

In reality, you are seeing yourself as less than me.

You say I inflict something on others, no, I only wish to heal them, to cure them of their foolishness. You do not understand this, you are still identified with the mind, you do not know what love you have inside and that it is the mind which veils it.

When this is unveiled, you see there can be no greater or lesser, comparison itself falls because you realize oneness. Differentiation is only in the mind, it is not the case in reality.
 

Lunitik

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I see all as a part of me, a part which is still struggling with duality. I have come to an interfaith site for the simple reason that if you can spend such time contemplating God, it is time to realize Him. That realization is the only place interfaith can happen, for it is the only way for all to see they are the same.
 

NiceCupOfTea

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In reality, you are seeing yourself as less than me.

You say I inflict something on others, no, I only wish to heal them, to cure them of their foolishness. You do not understand this, you are still identified with the mind, you do not know what love you have inside and that it is the mind which veils it.

When this is unveiled, you see there can be no greater or lesser, comparison itself falls because you realize oneness. Differentiation is only in the mind, it is not the case in reality.

you really cant see it can you ?

ignorance is bliss i guess. and very thick skinned.

i hope one day you learn some humility.

i'm done.
 

Lunitik

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you really cant see it can you ?

ignorance is bliss i guess. and very thick skinned.

i hope one day you learn some humility.

i'm done.

What good is humility?

Only the ego can be humble, it is just arrogance turned on its head, but both are merely aspects of ego. This is shown in the realization of the Middle Way by Buddha, for he has indulged in the gluttonous life for almost three decades - this is as arrogance, for his ego has moved only in the positive. Then for six years, he has moved into the opposite direction, he has become utterly ascetic, he has gone out of his way to humble himself - this is to move in the negative, but still ego is there, the doer persists. Then he has heard something very simple: "if the string is too tight, it will snap; if the string is too loose it will not play". In this is everything, always mind moves into one extreme or the other, either it is for something or against, it cannot simply drop it.

You have to come out of this utterly, you have to drop all opposites, for all are false. All are merely the manifestation of oneness, they create the experience of life, but they stem from the essence of life - that essence is where I point.

See that it is only ego which does not permit you to look.
 

Lunitik

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To paint something in a positive light, it becomes false.

To paint something in a negative light, still it is false.

Truth is only found between these.

Ego tries to color the world a certain way, truth just accepts it as it is.

How can you improve what is already perfect?

It is only the ego which will try, only the ego thinks it knows better than God.

Strange that the creator who declared all is good is questioned by his creatures, strange that an omnipotent God is somehow being defeated by this character the devil.

Understand the fall is the knowledge of opposites.

God is still in total control, still he looks and declares it is good.

Yet he continues to call all towards him.
 

Etu Malku

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What good is humility?

Only the ego can be humble, it is just arrogance turned on its head, but both are merely aspects of ego. This is shown in the realization of the Middle Way by Buddha, for he has indulged in the gluttonous life for almost three decades - this is as arrogance, for his ego has moved only in the positive. Then for six years, he has moved into the opposite direction, he has become utterly ascetic, he has gone out of his way to humble himself - this is to move in the negative, but still ego is there, the doer persists. Then he has heard something very simple: "if the string is too tight, it will snap; if the string is too loose it will not play". In this is everything, always mind moves into one extreme or the other, either it is for something or against, it cannot simply drop it.

You have to come out of this utterly, you have to drop all opposites, for all are false. All are merely the manifestation of oneness, they create the experience of life, but they stem from the essence of life - that essence is where I point.

See that it is only ego which does not permit you to look.
Buddha-dude abandoned his family and surrendered his ego . . . I call that a loser. :D
 

Lunitik

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Buddha-dude abandoned his family and surrendered his ego . . . I call that a loser. :D

He has left his wife and son because he has realized they too will suffer, that they too are temporary phenomena in this world. All phenomena must die, realizing this he has set out to find that which does not - and he has found it. Ego dies, all family members will die, everything you treasure will eventually decay and cease. There is only one thing which does not. Will you find it?

It is the energy which gives us life, it is the energy which we have our life in, it is all there is, yet this makes it quite difficult to see. It is as the fish looking for the ocean, it has never left it so how will it know it is there?

Such is the case for man.
 
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