how to prove the prophethood of one

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by kenshin, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. kenshin

    kenshin New Member

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    thanks for the answer.
    however it is not clear ! what do you mean by that ? Am I trying to be out? and what is with this "People are fooled easily"? :confused:
    even if I got the wrong side, it's just the matter of my effort that my lord cares about. a truth seeker will find it whether in this world or the other. so just be a truth seeker :)
     
  2. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    I mean that people are easily fooled, and I mean all people. I say it, because you mention evidence. Every day your Lord allows some sucker (often a child) to believe lies about himself. Every day truth seekers are swindled out of money, out of their futures and out of hope. Despite these things you think that the Lord will single you out to answer your search for truth! I used to think that way, and I used to think that the Lord wouldn't allow me to be deceived as long as I was a seeker.

    It is your effort, so you are the one who cares about it most. You can spend your time seeking, or you can spend your time doing what you already know is right. The things you know can change, but the things you've done matter. Invest in living.

    Instead seek to better yourself and to become a good person, and then people will come ask you what truth is.
     
  3. Princely

    Princely Interfaith Forums

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    You must be made perfect as the Lord in heaven is perfect.

    The One who comes from above is above all.. He testifies to what he has seen and heard, yet no one accepts his testimony. Whoever accepts his testimony certifies that God is truthful. The One whom is sent by God, He speaks the words of God. His gift of the spirit is not rationed. The Father loves the Son and has given everything over to him. Whoever believes in the Son possesses eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God.

    The Lord says this;
    The words of the upright save them but the words of the wicked are a deadly ambush.

    The teaching of the wise is a fountain of life.

    Those who walk uprightly fear the Lord.

    The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life.

    The Lord’s delight is those who speak the truth, and those who speak what is right he loves

    The Lord is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the just .


    Those are the words of the Lord who sent me. I came down from heaven to do His will not my own. Anyone who chooses to do His will shall know about this teaching, namely, whether it comes from God or I am merely speaking on my own.

    When you honor the Son of Man, then you will realize that I AM, and that I do nothing on my own, but I only say what the Lord has taught me.
    For the one who sent me is with me. He has not deserted me, because I always do what pleases him.

    Whoever believes in me believes not only in me but also in the one who sent me, and whoever sees me sees the one who sent me.
    I came into the world as light, so that everyone who believes in me might not remain in darkness.

    I am the light of the world. No one who follows me will ever walk in darkness, cause he will possess the light of life. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where he is going.
    Once you have the light, keep faith in the light, and you will become a child of light.
     
  4. Amica

    Amica Member

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    Your three definitions of a prophet are:
    1. Previous prophet tells about him
    2. Biography and characteristics evidence
    3. Miracle

    Did any of the previous Hebrew prophets prophesize about Moses? Please provide a reference.

    Moses never did any miracles on his own. He would not have known how to. Instead, we see God directing him to do stuff (e.g. hit the staff on the ground, hide your hand in your bosom). Also, in Exodus we are told that Egyptian priests could do miracles by use of magic. Miracle being, in those days, something that to us would defy reality of things. So, the priests performed their miracles. Does that mean they were prophets? Also, we read in the Bible about the witch of Endor conjuring up prophet Samuel for King Saul? Wow, isn't that a miracle--being able to conjur up a Prophet? Hmm.

    If a miracle is condition for prophethood, then South American John of God would be a prophet. The man does his work for FREE. He says that the gift is not his own, but he is an instrument to promote the miracles. The miracles include healings of many kinds.

    A miracle does not make one a prophet. I think one of us has at least witnessed once a psychic, astrologer, or a person with visionary insight, who says things that come true. I have. Yet, these people do not claim prophethood and no one considers them prophets. So?
     
  5. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    Princely, show me all the multitude of good works you have done, and show me how you have humbled arrogance. Without many such accomplishments you are all talk, and here in a forum you can only be talk. It is sad, but talk is cheap.
     
  6. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    I know this is a stretch, but Abraham may have been told about Moses ahead of time.
     
  7. whacky43

    whacky43 passerby

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    I will begin by stating that your user name is deceptive. You are not a lunitik:) I have read a couple of your posts, and, you have presented some very good insight, and, an understanding of certain things that most do not possess. You make some good and valid observations, and, some that I would have to question. I will cover a couple here, because, I would also like to reply to another of your posts.

    The authority of Truth is the very spirit that indwells. The revelations of divine truth are not sealed except by human ignorance, bigotry, and narrow minded intolerance.The Nazarene

    The Spirit is the authority of Truth. It confirms, but, we still must seek it through our own efforts.

    This is correct. This is a process of confirmation. The rush that comes upon you as you discover or process thought that is Truth. We all form and create our own Truth, as well as our own kingdom based on the beliefs we form and store mentally. As well as what comes to remembrance.

    "Become zealous about the Word. For the Word's first condition is faith; the second is love; the third is works. Now from these comes life. For the Word is like a grain of wheat. When someone sowed it, he believed in it; and when it sprouted, he loved it, because he looked forward to many grains in the place of one; and when he worked it, he was saved, because he prepared it for food. Again he left some grains to sow. Thus it is also possible for you all to receive the Kingdom of Heaven: unless you receive it through knowledge, you will not be able to find it.

    You say that Words are NEVER Truth, so, how is one to accept yours? Or, mine? Or, anyone? How can Truth be nowhere yet everywhere at the same time? And, if someone forms their belief system under the guise of arch dualism, how then can one totally trust themselves? The fact is that we can know everything as it applies to the human experience. That is all we can know. Beyond that is pure conjecture and speculation.

    That is where Faith comes into play. It is not a matter of Words never being Truth. It is a matter of Truth being revealed in fiction, or myth. Studying the Word is not a matter of reading a book, or, listening to a sermon, or, using 'devices' of others for any 'methods' of self-discovery. That is delusive, and a big part of the deception.

    'There is Truth in every religion, yet every religion is not'

    I was given this message 12 years ago, and, discovered last week that Gandhi said the same thing. I personally don't think it's the religion. It's the rituals. And, the images and icons. And, the mysterious disappearance of Mom. I'm not sure, I just wonder what happened to Her.

    Exactly. It is not a matter of accumulation of knowledge; it is understanding the knowledge you have already. Sowing the grain of wheat, and, working it. When we break Words down to the 'roots', like taking an axe to a tree, we then see how one Word sprouts into many other Words from the 'root', or origin of the Word. The parable of the talents explains how we must approach the concept of bringing back more knowledge of Truth than what we arrived with.

    I won't dwell, but, an important thing to note is that we have to eliminate the and/or conjunctions of polar opposites. They are called 'Siamese Twins' in linguistics. That is the illusion. It's the way we look at Words, and define and value them that is the problem. And, believing everything we think is hazardous in my opinion, and experience.

    You are spot on there:) It is more of a 'we are', than an 'I am', that is a certainty.

    And, Providence is love to be sure. It is a journey, and, a job so to speak. We have to work, however. We cannot rely totally on experience, or knowledge. We have sift, and separate, and study. We can then contemplate, or meditate, but we must do both. There is nary a scripture that does not teach to have Faith, and seek knowledge of Truth. As well as 'good thoughts', 'good words', and 'good deeds'.

    It's not the Words. It's man's attempt to redefine, and interpretation, and corrupting the messages for less than scrupulous purposes. He wrote them, but, he did not define them. And, we are all messengers. Prophecy as is perceived is history. Fulfilled. Anyone claiming to be some sort of prophetic figure is not. The only remaining thing is interpretation. Man is attempting to self-fulfill these books literally, and, they are symbolic stories, and allegories. Not history books, or literal future predictions applicable to the planet, I don't think anyway. But, you are right. Who is to say that anything written is Truth? Who knows for sure? I think we will all find out soon enough.

    This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

    Agape love. What a concept man fails to grasp.

    Great post by the way.I am not criticizing or debating your advice. Truth is what we make it, but, it is not totally devoid in the Words. Just hard to sift out. And, I would not recommend that anyone attempt to gather it all. The sameness is the mystery. Mystery within mystery. The door to all marvels.

    Because, if you are not prepared for the 'wordless teaching', it would drive anyone insane. Humility is one tough lesson to learn the hard way.

    Beware that no one lead you astray saying Lo here or lo there! For the Son of Man is within you.
    Follow after Him!
    Those who seek Him will find Him.
    Go then and preach the gospel of the Kingdom.
    Do not lay down any rules beyond what I appointed you, and do not give a law like the lawgiver lest you be constrained by it.

    Those rules are golden. Man needs religion, because he can't control himself. I would recommend to anyone that preaches my way or the highway to get off the interstate, and put it in park. As for the Abrahamic major trio. Lay off each other, and lay off the Jews. They don't speak a name. They say "Hashem", and for a good reason. If I were Jewish, I wouldn't say Adonai either. But, True Jews, not Zionists, try really hard to follow a lot of rules that they don't really understand.

    Forgive me if this comes off as anything other than offering input. Everyone makes good points. You're all good people. I long to be. I don't love thy neighbor as thyself. I hope to love thyself as thy neighbor before I take my dirt nap. Sorry for the rant. I have nothing left to do but write.

    peace
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
  8. Amica

    Amica Member

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    Dream,
    Thanks for your reply regarding possibility of Abraham predicting Moses. May I have a reference, please? Thank you!
     
  9. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    Please take this with a grain of salt, as I realize that I'm out of my element in posting this, and it does not literally say that Moses was predicted. I'm only saying Abraham may have predicted Moses when he in Genesis 15:13 predicted that Abraham's descendants would come out of Egypt after four generations of slavery. Moses name means 'Draw out', because he was drawn out of the river as a baby (Exodus 2:10) in the fourth generation. Is it really a coincidence that his name is the meaning of Genesis 15:13? That is the short explanation of why Moses may have been predicted. The name Moses seems a miraculous coincidence for two reasons. The second reason is that at one brief moment in time Moses is the only Israelite that God intends to keep alive (Exodus 32:10). In a sense Moses is momentarily the Israel that was predicted in Genesis 15:13, because he carries the burden and the purpose of the entire nation. Abraham's prediction is repeated in Acts 7:7.
     
  10. Princely

    Princely Interfaith Forums

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    I have shown you already but being in the dark you cannot see the works or the meek. Believe in me and come into the light. The man who has faith in me will do the works of God and the works I do.The works I do in my Fathers name bear witness for me though, only the One who comes from God has seen God.

    "The One who is sent by God , he speaks the words of God."

    Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you peace.
    Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find peace for yourselves.
    For my yoke is righteous, and my burden is light.

    Seek justice, seek humility, perhaps you'll be sheltered on the day of the Lords anger.

    By your words you'll be forgiven or by your words you'll be condemned.

    Don't you see the words I post are not my own ,it is the Lord who lives in me performing His works.
     
  11. Amica

    Amica Member

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    Hi Dream,

    Thank you for your reference. I can see the connection. What about Abraham? Did someone fortell him? I would like to know as I have not read closely the Holy Bible as I have the Holy Qur'an. Thanks.
     

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