Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Ben Masada, Mar 5, 2012.
Yep. (Assuming that there is no limiting defect that might impair this capacity.)
IMHO, that opinion is not absolute. There must be some kind of natural standard for humans. Notice that I said in absolute terms. Cultures diverge indeed from people to people, but a pattern must be there to distinguish man from the irrational animal.
And what do you think that pattern would be?
It seems to me that early man behaved much differently than modern man?
I don't know; some kind of natural instinct in the essence of being human.
If not with outsiders, at least in their tribal relations.
EM, early man merely killed an individual enemy and then ate him or her. Modern man kills entire nations.
Perhaps, Ben, the "natural instinct in the essence of being human" is really something like "the realization that self, family, tribe, race, and country matter less than ideas, species, or world".
You are right but, outsiders. This form of canibalism did not happen within one's own tribe. That's what I meant by the different pattern in human behavior from irrational animals.
Interesting that I would rather take the opposite of it. Head hunters, for instance, would hunt in the outside world for the survaval of their own specie.
Interesting spins, Ben. I think "species" would mean homo sapiens. Hence head-hunters and cannibals, while not hunting within their family or tribe, hunt within the species (and it is provable that ritual cannibalism does occur within the tribal or even familial unit, but that is irrelevant). Until one can identify with something greater than tribe or nation (which I do not believe is instinctual, but generated by thought and empathy), the "essence of a human being" is missing. Mahavira, Gautama, Zoraoster, Laotzi, and Moses were all speaking to their tribe (that was fixed by historical circumstances) but not about their tribe, but their essential humanity.
Anyway, that is my opinion.
u are not an afterthought of Gyd
my friend Isaac tells me
Gyd's gift to u , is
not immortal life but this life , this
breath of the Divine
which Gyd has lent u
i find u'r initial post thoughtful & deeply affecting
believe me , i get it
but with the deepest of respect , Ben
i must disagree
ascribing attributes to Gyd is idolatry
"Gyd is" is a Hellenistic idealization of Gyd
(giving Gyd "form")
nature has attributes , &
nature has form
(things science can define)
"nature" is concretely perceptible
(nature has one foot in the present , the other foot
squarely in the past tense) , semantically definable
for Jesus the Galilean to call Gyd spirit
might not be so far off
("no attributes" , "no form")
but "spirit" defined in a modern (abstract) sense
(not Hebrew ruach = breath-of-life
not Greek pneuma = life-force)
spirit , stepping outside of nature
Ben , "i am what i am" might (in Ancient Hebrew) be better translated
in the future tense = "i will be what i will be"
("i will be encountered where & when i will be encountered")
Gyd is always a new possibility
(one foot in the present , other foot in the future tense)
Gyd makes u other than what u are
(breaks the status quo , breaches nature)
Gyd changes lives
Gyd is not is
i'm a little dizzy from reading all that, but I would like to chime in on my belief on the topic.
Originally Posted by Ben Masada
With the acquisition of knowledge, we have become almost one with God, were not for the attribute of eternal life, which was denied us. (Gen. 3:22) Although like gods we are to be, like men we are supposed to die. (Psalm 82:6,7)
In conclusion, as Jesus dared to define God, he said that God is Spirit. (John 4:24) To man, the spirit was granted with the breath of life breathed in his nostrils, as to make of him a living soul "till death do us part," when the breath of life goes back to Adonai and the body returns to the dust. (Eccl. 12:7) Then, the soul which man had become be no more. (Gen. 2:8)
I cut the bottom off of your post because I think it holds the key to understanding.
The very first sentence in my quote is pivotal...
The Anathema which denied the " Fabulous preexistence of souls" is the culprit for the misunderstanding here.
It demanded that such be the understanding - when it was not a universally believed idea.
And though it is a misunderstanding - it does not invalidate the second sentence....
We have been endowed with eternal life since our creation ( tis our very nature ). It is the interpretation of what we are doing for that eternal period which is in question.
and onward to your next paragraph:
Your mention of Spirit - are you indeed sure that that it the proper term to use?
If you are to go back to ancient sources, will you not find an argument over just such an interpretation? I recall the consensus leaning more heavily to " the Waters" in it's earliest usage, as opposed to spirit. ( which at another time we can get into as well - as it refers to baptism ) Though that may not be what the most popular "Bibles" have it translated as....
And the very last bit - once again - Anathema looking over our shoulders..... shhh, no one mention reincarnation.....
but surprise - there IS a basis in truth here.... and I apologize for moving away from sources you might quickly verify, but it is my understanding that the very last sentence is the ENTIRE reason for the appearance of all those Descended Beings mentioned back in this thread.
And Specifically, the Appearance of the Master Jesus changed the whole scenario for us.
His Dispensation was the entire system of Karma and Rebirth - ( or so it seems to me - as my limited intellect will allow me to comprehend ). Where Souls from our distant path were given a method to "cleanse" themselves of their crimes in an ongoing fashion, As opposed to having to wait for the end of the Cycle to begin again. Therefore giving us an IMMENSE benefit in the refining of our souls. The ability to Ascend into Higher Realms consciously.
Which explains, in part, my concept of I AM.
I AM - the way of saying GOD in human form. When you have realized that what you think of as a mind is a poor, shadowed imitation of the intellect which you are a part of, and you allow that superior intellect to do the interacting with the world of illusion around you. In other words, when you decide that the mind you have been constructing for yourself since your birth is but a poor creation - at best, and you seek what did he constructing, you find that I AM.
and you start to realize that I AM having individual parts, makes perfect sense in the grand scheme of things. As you begin to study ANY subject we find that the closer one looks, the more there is to notice - GOD is the same way.
At the highest range of vibration is the ONE - where ALL is understood.
At the lowest end of vibration is infinite variety - that which will make up ALL.
one must not attempt to find God from the reverse direction - because it requires knowing ALL the facts ( how long you reckon that'll take?).
but to go the other direction - from within ones own being, find the source of Creation within the Human, and watch it closely, if you want to understand yourself well enough to experience I AM..... and TRULY appreciate what those who came before were up to.
Because experiencing that is not a given - it is a possibility and a gift, they showed the way - but those Great Beings are NOT going to work out your Karma for you. That would make it pretty pointless, wouldn't it? It is YOUR responsibility to raise your vibration to a level which will find a much more spiritual plane upon your demise, or truly - Then, the soul which man had become be no more. (Gen. 2:8)
You are right. I really did not mean "species" in the sense of homo sapiens but in terms of tribal society. They would kill outsiders to survive through a bad winter, for instance. But this is already way off the theme of the thread.
BTW, I woe you some explanation about the Mishneh Torah of Maimonides. I think that's mainly about the 13 Princinples of Faith. The Rambam Hall reopened in the Tel-Aviv Library, and I started reading the Mishneh Torah. I'll be bringing you my understanding of those principles in the form of a thread. If I am not mistaken it is about the 12th and 13th principles. Those about the Messiah and resurrection.
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