All religions are anti-Women

Passerby

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The Sigalovada Sutta is referring to housewifes, second class citizens. Housekeepers. Saying a woman's place is in the house and she's in charge there.

It's the EXACT OPPOSITE of equality for women.

And, there is no 2000 year old document, not that it matters in that case.
 

Passerby

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You know, I've seen a lot of Buddhist monks, but I can't remember seeing a woman Buddhist monk, why is that?
 

Passerby

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But they had full equality with Jesus, in the Gospel of Thomas, and we have physical scraps going back over 1800 years.

And a lot of evidence women had full equality until the end of the first century...

Women In Ancient Christianity: The New Discoveries

Scholar Karen King examines the evidence concerning women's important place in early Christianity. She draws a surprising new portrait of Mary Magdalene and outlines the stories of previously unknown early Christian women

Karen L. King is Professor of New Testament Studies and the History of Ancient Christianity at Harvard University in the Divinity School. She has published widely in the areas of Gnosticism, ancient Christianity, and Women's Studies.
In the last twenty years, the history of women in ancient Christianity has been almost completely revised. As women historians entered the field in record numbers, they brought with them new questions, developed new methods, and sought for evidence of women's presence in neglected texts and exciting new findings. For example, only a few names of women were widely known: Mary, the mother of Jesus; Mary Magdalene, his disciple and the first witness to the resurrection; Mary and Martha, the sisters who offered him hospitality in Bethany. Now we are learning more of the many women who contributed to the formation of Christianity in its earliest years.
Perhaps most surprising, however, is that the stories of women we thought we knew well are changing in dramatic ways. Chief among these is Mary Magdalene, a woman infamous in Western Christianity as an adulteress and repentant whore. Discoveries of new texts from the dry sands of Egypt, along with sharpened critical insight, have now proven that this portrait of Mary is entirely inaccurate. She was indeed an influential figure, but as a prominent disciple and leader of one wing of the early Christian movement that promoted women's leadership....

Google will find it real quick, a link we'll have to wait forever. Lots more with explicit examples and Karen King is a real heavyweight.
 

seattlegal

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The Sigalovada Sutta is referring to housewifes, second class citizens. Housekeepers. Saying a woman's place is in the house and she's in charge there.

It's the EXACT OPPOSITE of equality for women.

And, there is no 2000 year old document, not that it matters in that case.

You know, I've seen a lot of Buddhist monks, but I can't remember seeing a woman Buddhist monk, why is that?
You really don't know much about Buddhism, do you?

There are plenty of female Buddhist monks (Bhikkhunis,) and there have been ever since the lifetime of Buddha.

Feel free to peruse this search link for "Bhikkhunis" for plenty of suttas regarding the ordained female nuns. :)

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Passerby

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I don't dispute there are female Buddhist monks, I'm just saying I've seen lots of Buddhist monks and I've nevr seen it. Are you saying the percentages are in the same ballpark across the planet? I'd be surprised by that.

When I type in "buddhist monks" into google image, I see thousands of monks and not one of them is a woman, as far as I can tell.

You really don't know much about Buddhism, do you?

There are plenty of female Buddhist monks (Bhikkhunis,) and there have been ever since the lifetime of Buddha.

Feel free to peruse this search link for "Bhikkhunis" for plenty of suttas regarding the ordained female nuns. :)

Access to Insight Search Results
 

Passerby

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So easy to get to the bottom of this kind of stuf these days.

Here's how it works, there are female Buddhist monks, but they are very rare and in some cultures, there are none.

Buddha, as the story goes, (documents are elusive), didn't allow inferior women to be Monks, but his mother in law wanted to be a monk and so he changed the rules because he didn't want trouble with her.
 

Passerby

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Here's another Thomas one that makes male and female equal, and it's right after the one about Mary with all the sexual innuendo...

Thomas 21
Mary said to Jesus: "Whom are your disciples like?" He said: "They are like servants who are entrusted with a field that is not theirs. When the owners of the field arrive, they will say: ‘Let us have our field.’ (But) they are naked in their presence so as to let them have it (and thus) to give them their field.""That is why I say: ‘When the master of the house learns that the thief is about to come, he will be on guard before he comes (and) will not let him break into his house, his domain, to carry away his possessions.’ (But) you, be on guard against the world! Gird your loins with great strength, so that the robbers will not find a way to get to you." "For the necessities for which you wait (with longing) will be found. There ought to be a wise person among you! When the fruit was ripe, he came quickly with his sickle in his hand, (and) he harvested it. Whoever has ears to hear should hear." © Patterson-Robinson
Coptic Thomas 22
Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples: "These little ones being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom." They said to him: "Then will we enter the kingdom as little ones?" Jesus said to them: "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside and the above like the below – that is, to make the male and the female into a single one, so that the male will not be male and the female will not be female – and when you make eyes instead of an eye and a hand instead of a hand and a foot instead of a foot, an image instead of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]." © Patterson-Robinson

It's the same way of saying equality as #114, the politically incorrect these days, making the females just like a male. But that's how you explain it to someone that things women are like animals. Flatters the male ego too, which might help.
 

A Cup Of Tea

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Passerby, question, are you an expert in every culture and religion? Or do you feel that that are some areas that you don't know so much about and the surface knowledge you possess gives you little to no understanding of those areas.

Why is it so important to you that there couldn't ever have been a religion that equalized the sexes?
 

seattlegal

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I don't dispute there are female Buddhist monks, I'm just saying I've seen lots of Buddhist monks and I've nevr seen it. Are you saying the percentages are in the same ballpark across the planet? I'd be surprised by that.

When I type in "buddhist monks" into google image, I see thousands of monks and not one of them is a woman, as far as I can tell.

Silly. Gotta put the feminine "i" ending on if you want to see females. Bhikkhunis are translated as "Buddhist nuns" in English.

Bhikkhus are translated as "Buddhist monks" in English.

(links are for google image search for that term)
 

Passerby

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Passerby, question, are you an expert in every culture and religion? Or do you feel that that are some areas that you don't know so much about and the surface knowledge you possess gives you little to no understanding of those areas.

Why is it so important to you that there couldn't ever have been a religion that equalized the sexes?

The thread is "All religions iare anti-Women". I am the one disagreeing with that.

I'm also pointing out, that the first document in history to give full equality to women, is the Gospel of Thomas. That was disputed, but no one produced any document even remotely that old giving even remotely equality to women.

Don't you think it's important to know what the first document in all human history that gives full equality to women is?

And wouldn't that be appropriate to point out that it's by Jesus in a thread called "All religions are anti-Women"?

And Cup of Tea, whether that's "surface knowledge" or not (nice), will be demonstrated by whether anyone, including you by the way, can produce one older.
 

radarmark

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"...those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth -- women, vaisyas (merchants), as well as sudras (workers) -- can approach the supreme destination."

Bahavagad Gita (circa 500 BCE)

Was it a woman, or a man That passed this way? I cannot tell. But this I know, a set of bones Is travelling upon this road.

Pali Sutra (about the same time)


Difference there is in beings endowed with bodies,
but amongst men this is not the case, the difference amongst men is
nominal (only). Not by birth is one a Brâmana, nor is
one by birth no Brâmana; by work (kammanâ) one is a Brâmana, by
work one is no Brâmana.”

Sutta-Nipâta,Book 3: Chapter 9: 58 (again, 600 years before Thomas)

Listen with your ears to the supreme facts
Consider with open mind
Between the paths before deciding
PERSON BY PERSON for his own self
Before greatness of this message
Is truly spread understand each one
Zarathushtra - Gatha - Yasna Ha 30.2 (about 1000-700 years before Thomas)

"We venerate the righteous woman who is good in thoughts, words, and deeds, who is well-educated, is an authority on religious affairs, is progressively serene, and is like the women who belong to the Wise God. "We venerate the righteous man who is good in thoughts, words, and deeds, who knows well the religion he has chosen, and who does not know blind following.
"It is these people who, with their actions, promote the world though righteousness." (Aiwisruthrem Gah 9
 

Passerby

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Are you seriously claiming Hindus give full equality to women?

Is that what you are claiming? Really?

Because none of those quotes says so. Men and women both being bags of bones doesn't mean they are equal, sheesh.

"...those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth -- women, vaisyas (merchants), as well as sudras (workers) -- can approach the supreme destination."

Bahavagad Gita (circa 500 BCE)

Was it a woman, or a man That passed this way? I cannot tell. But this I know, a set of bones Is travelling upon this road.

Pali Sutra (about the same time)


Difference there is in beings endowed with bodies,
but amongst men this is not the case, the difference amongst men is
nominal (only). Not by birth is one a Brâmana, nor is
one by birth no Brâmana; by work (kammanâ) one is a Brâmana, by
work one is no Brâmana.”

Sutta-Nipâta,Book 3: Chapter 9: 58 (again, 600 years before Thomas)

Listen with your ears to the supreme facts
Consider with open mind
Between the paths before deciding
PERSON BY PERSON for his own self
Before greatness of this message
Is truly spread understand each one
Zarathushtra - Gatha - Yasna Ha 30.2 (about 1000-700 years before Thomas)

"We venerate the righteous woman who is good in thoughts, words, and deeds, who is well-educated, is an authority on religious affairs, is progressively serene, and is like the women who belong to the Wise God. "We venerate the righteous man who is good in thoughts, words, and deeds, who knows well the religion he has chosen, and who does not know blind following.
"It is these people who, with their actions, promote the world though righteousness." (Aiwisruthrem Gah 9
 

radarmark

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Give me a break, you asked for "written sources", That is what I provided. you dismissed my examples of Native American sexual equality because they could not write it down (a little Western prejudice shows up there).

And as far as the Pali Sutta goes... well I forgive you for being so prejudiced. The point is ( as most here can probably see) is that in the Buddha's eyes there was no difference between the sexes.

By the way, that is considerably more modern than your "For every woman who makes herself male will enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Score: Buddha 1, Thomas 0
 

Passerby

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No quote gives full equality to women, and the documents in general certainly don't.

Men and women both having bones doesn't give women full equality, if words have meaning.
 

Passerby

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Score, Jesus 1, the rest of the human race before 2000 years ago, 0.
 

Passerby

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And it's pure deluded fantasy that Native Americans 2000 years ago gave full equality to women.
 

radarmark

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Do you even know the cultural facts about (using whte-man speak) the Iroqouis, Cherokee and Hopi? I gave you the refernces, go forth and learn the error of your opinion.
 
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