all mental activities (thinking, feeling and willing)

Discussion in 'Eastern Religions and Philosophies' started by bhaktajan, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

    Oct 14, 2009
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    'chetasa'—all mental activities (thinking, feeling and willing);

    The 8 Seperated energies are
    [listed herein from gross to subtile
    ~although these come into existence vis-versa, from subtile to gross]:

    • Earth
    • Water
    • Fire
    • Aire
    • Either
    • Mind
    • Intelligence
    • Ego
    It is item #6 ‘Mind’ that interests me here, and, its difference from ‘Intelligence’.
    The other items are famously well understood. And ‘Intelligence’ is straight forward enough to explain itself.

    I will jump to my latest insight:

    THINK WITH YOUR INTELLIGENCE! ---Not with you Mind!

    I have learnt over the years from my study of Bhaktivedanta Swami’s explanations of “mind” that the mind engages in two basic activities: “Accepting & Rejecting” ---and nothing else.

    So I am highlighting “How we often act & think as per the whims of the Mind” ---inlieu of Intelligence.

    My insight was how easy and swiftly one can shift from “Day Dreaming (when say, the boss is gone) –to– Attentive On-Task Standby Mode (when the boss enters the room)”

    Next time you catch yourself mentally musing about something not-so-desirable . . . SHIFT to Intellegence ---there is an effortless gear shift that brings one into the ‘Here and Now’ replete with the agency of one’s own Intelligence.

    I wonder [If Req'd] the same rule of thumb works for impromptu public speaking.
    We know it will work during emotional states that must be hidden by a stern facade and stiff-upper lip ---ie, No one saw the Queen shead a tear during the Olympic opening ceremonies.


    here are some quotes from Bhaktivedanta Swami’s explanations of various verse inre:

    thinking, feeling and willing

    The mind’s activities are thinking, feeling and willing.
    The willing portion of the mind is manifest by the activities of the body.

    The conclusion is that by the activities of the body and senses,
    we can understand the condition of the mind.
    The condition of the mind is affected by past activities in the past body.

    When the mind is joined with a particular sense,
    it immediately becomes manifest in a certain way.
    For instance, when there is anger in the mind,
    the tongue vibrates so many maledictions.

    Similarly, when the mind’s anger is expressed through the hand, there is fighting.
    When it is expressed through the leg, there is kicking.

    There are so many ways in which the subtle activities of the mind are expressed through the various senses.

    Sense perception is the cause of feeling all sorts of happiness and distress.
    Form, taste, odor, sound, and touch are different sense perceptions, which render happiness or distress in cooperation with the mind.

    In winter, bathing in cold water gives us pain, but in summer,
    the same cold water gives us pleasure.

    In winter, fire gives us pleasure and warmth,
    but in summer, the same fire gives us distress.

    Thus, neither fire nor water has any intrinsic power to give us
    happiness or distress, but they appear to us as agents of happiness or distress,
    according to our mode of sense perception in various circumstances.

    Therefore, everything that exists in the world is neither an object of happiness
    nor an object of distress; everything is simply subjective—that is,
    subject to our sense perceptions as they relate to our processes of
    thinking, feeling, and willing.

    When the mind is thinking, feeling, and willing, then there is action.

    We are very minute sparks of the supreme spirit, just like particles of sunshine.

    The sun’s rays are made up of shining particles, and when these shining particles mix together they form sunshine.

    Similarly, we are minute particles of God, and because we are part and parcel of God we have the same propensities as God: thinking, feeling, willing, creating—everything.

    Whatever you see in yourself is there in God also.
    Therefore, since we are all persons, God cannot be impersonal.

    I have so many propensities in a very minute quantity, and the same propensities are there in Krishna, or God, in an unlimited quantity.

    This is the science of Krishna consciousness [as yoga].

    We are small, infinitesimal, yet we still have so many propensities,
    so many desires, so many activities, so much brainwork.
    Just imagine how much greater are God’s desires and activities and brainwork!
    So qualitatively God and the living entity are one, but quantitatively we are different.
    He is great, we are small. He is infinite, we are infinitesimal.
  2. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

    Aug 30, 2005
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    The etymology of intelligence means "to select" in a discerning way:

    intelligence (n.) [​IMG]late 14c., "faculty of understanding," from O.Fr. intelligence (12c.), from L. intelligentia, intellegentia "understanding, power of discerning; art, skill, taste," from intelligentem (nom. intelligens) "discerning," prp. of intelligere "to understand, comprehend," from inter- "between" (see inter-) + legere "choose, pick out, read" (see lecture (n.)). Meaning superior understanding, sagacity" is from early 15c. Sense of "information, news" first recorded mid-15c., especially "secret information from spies" (1580s). Intelligence quotient first recorded 1921​
  3. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

    Oct 14, 2009
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    Veda = Intelligence

    Intelligence = The ability to discriminate.

    There is the maxim: "Milk is the source of butter and cheese, yet both are different". ---thus, the skill 'to discriminate' is equal to intelligence. [ie: the square peg goes into the square hole]

    According to the Vedas, the definition of "Intelligence" is,
    "The ability to discriminate between one subtlety from other subleties."

    Wine Tasters are experts in discriminating one subtlety from other subleties.
    Singing Contest winners are selected from the attendees by experts in descriminating one subtlety from other subleties.
    To identify a block of Cheese as different from a block of Butter requires descriminating one subtlety from the other.

    According to the Vedas, meat eaters cannot realise sublime compassion, et al.
    According to the Vedas, meat eaters cannot delve into higher consciouness,
    but indeed, the meat eaters can indentify the future paths ahead as the mundane rewards for their passion-bound works.

    "We are Spirits in the Material World."

    The material world is composed of elements that are interconnected by Vibration/Frequency similar to the Chemist's 'Elements Chart'.

    The (8) Material Elements:
    1- Earth
    2- Water
    3- Fire
    4- Air
    5- Ether

    6- Mind
    7- Intelligence
    8- Ego (a-hankara, false-ego)

    Besides these 8-Elements there is:
    Brahman (the Void) +
    Time +
    Jiv-atma (individual Soul) +
    Param-atma (Overseer/Source-of-all-Souls) +
    the varied 'interactions' of the above elements.

    The activities of the Mind (manas) is

    "[a]to be attracted

    "to [a] accept
    —this simplistic mechanical activity is the sum total of all its functions.

    This description alludes to the 'sense-gratification' propensities of a mind that is concerned only with the most superficial level of consciousness.

    The activities of the citta (cognition aka consciousness) is "Buddhi" —Intelligence/knowledge.

    Citta (consciousness) exists as the essence of our being,

    but we have been conditioned by countless births-after-births (samsara —reincarnation(s) here in the material world)
    —thus, Citta (consciousness) is achieved by way of the Soul being encapsulated within a body that affords Sense(and Ego)-gratification.

    Such life-times worth of conditioning adds-up to a level of consciousness (Citta) that is ultra-mundane and thus such consciousness cannot rise above the bestial stratum of existance.

    That 'Citta' that uses "Buddhi" (intelligence) practices discrimination of "that which is useful/good/enlivening/non-degrading/non-bad-karma-forming".

    The mind's occupation is to "[a]accept and reject".

    The "Citta" (consciousness) is the particular level of perception that is achieved by a living entity.

    The "Buddhi" (intelligence) is what a human living entity has the free-will to cultivate . . . to achieve whatever the whim chooses . . . during a lifetime.


    What I have NOT made a point of yet:
    Mind-Intell-false-Ego(Ahankara) are the last 3 of eight elements ---these three elements "Mind-Intell-false-Ego" are known as the "Subtile Body" aka, the "astra body".

    Upon suicide of sudden instant death ---the subtile body remains active and unchanged ---other than the shock that the subtile body no longer has it's supplementary "other-half", namely, it's "Gross body".\

    The "Gross body" is made of earth-water-fire-air-either [5 elements].

    Ultimately the 'spirit' soul [non-material energy]:
    enlivens the 3-Subtile elements;
    which thus animates:
    the 5 gross elements [that comprise the living body's structure].

    Of all these different 8 material, and otherwise, in-animate elements ---the only one I still seek to understand is the MIND ['mana' is sanskrit] as opposed to the Intelligence.

    Remember, the the recent Aurora Colorado USA public shooting was done by a post-grad-student who won a full scholarship.

    Yogis practice self-discipline.
    Self-discipline is NOT about mind-games & ego trips & day dreaming.
    Intelligent Self-discipline is ultimately [or usually] self-less work for the good of all.

    Yet the mind kicks in a mucks it all up!

    "Depends what the definition of "is" is"

    Poor Kurt Vonnegut and all those black sardonic humorists.

    At least while most viewers enjoy the latest BATMAN Extravaganza those spectators can enjoy the solice of the statistical odds.

    Actuarial calculations galore!

    Build Detroit And they Will Come!
  4. Hermes

    Hermes Zos Kia Cultus

    Dec 28, 2011
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    My teacher used to tell us that the mind has to have a link with the heart. Not in the physical sense but in the Cosmic sense, the heart<->Mind link is essential for spiritual growth. The heart is also called the chalice...
    This is also interesting as Bardon was very clear on a clean slate on the person's character, the synchronization of the physical body with the invisible counterparts and continuous awareness and self-correction of ones character. Self-knowing of the faults as well as the good/positive attributes. All else are just pebbles on the road. to be kicked around and ignored.
  5. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

    Oct 14, 2009
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    "Mind vs Intelligence"

    My reference to "Mind vs Intelligence" is NOT my invention or notion ---it's is from the Vedas.


    Prakriti - Material Nature /

    Prakriti - Material Nature

    In the seventh chapter of Bhagavad-gita [7.6], Lord Krishna says that all created beings have their origin in two natures: the material and the spiritual; and that He is the source of both natures [Bg. 7.6].

    Prakriti, material nature, is actually threefold. Nature consists of a superior energy [para], an inferior energy [apara], and a marginal energy. The superior energy manifests the spiritual realm. The inferior energy [known as "nature" by scientists] manifests this material world. And the marginal energy, also spiritual by constitution, comprises the infinitesimal sparks of consciousness known as jivas; that is, all living beings. When the jivas choose to associate with matter and identify with the inferior energy, they manipulate it for sense enjoyment and thus the entire world functions.
    Material nature consists of eight elements: earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego. These are known as Krishna's "separated material energies" [Bg. 7.4]. Another classification of the elements of the material world includes the five gross elements [earth, water, fire, air and ether], the three subtle elements [mind, intelligence and false ego], the ten senses [five for working: hands, legs, stomach, rectum and genitals; and five for acquiring knowledge: eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin], the five sense objects [form, taste, smell, sound and touch], and consciousness. These twenty-four elements constitute the field of activity for the living entities.
    The material body of the jiva is also called the field of activity. . . .


    BTW, I did a one-page cheat-sheet diagram of the 24 elements as per the Gita & bhagavata-purana's description:
  6. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

    Jul 28, 2011
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    As an Eastern teaching this division of what is (or meta-physics as I use the term) seems to be pretty consistently used and applied. There are parallels across Shinto to Zen to Jainism. The beauty of the Sanatana Dharma is that it can accept all of these notions logically and yet retain some spiritual core.
  7. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

    Oct 14, 2009
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    There is a diiference between Mind and Intelligence in the cakra system and Hindu yoga traditions.

    It is not a vague or new notion.

    I am highlighting the following thought:

    THINK WITH YOUR INTELLIGENCE! ---Not with you Mind!


    Is this causing readers here to get dis-combobulated?

    The Vedas actually go farther ---the Mind is an Elemental Structural component . . . and . . . the Intelligence is it own other Elemental Structural component . . .

    In short, Mind is seperate and distinct from Intelligence ---though they are packaged together.

    The mind is a dumb (base-pleasure seeking) receptionist that checks all packages & personel that arrive at the doors [of the senses] ---whereas--- Intelligence is the owner and impresario of the establishment [the individual].

    The mind is a simpleton with no-responsibilities ---the Intelligence is the Boss that calls all the shots.

    Why is there little recognition of this seperation?

    Is there implied ramifications that are evident to those reading this ---implications that I am not yet recognising?

    Some people "think" with their Intelligence.
    Some people "think" with their Mind.

    There is NO sematical confusion when translating & knowing the definition of the two sanskrit words:

    Mana [mind]
    Buddhi [Intelligence]

    Is everyone simply taking time to assimilate the differences of these two?

    I am aware that some words are used in english to refer to a person's Intellectual accumen.

    But Insanity defenses are based of Mental Handicaps ---they ignore that the mind is taking presidence over a defendant's intellectual falculties.

    If a person has lost their intellectual falculties ---they are considered mad.
    Mad [insane] people still retain intelligence yet they are caught up in their mind scape of their own imaginings.

    THINK WITH YOUR INTELLIGENCE! ---Not with you Mind!

    Try it when you forget to stick to the mantra.
    Try it when you forget to stay on task.
    IMHO, it may be the very definition of a "Mantra".
  8. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

    Aug 30, 2005
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    Citta--wiki article
  9. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

    Oct 14, 2009
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    Citta (Sanskrit) "that which can be seen or belonging to the consciousness, (See Cit) in Hinduism is the reflective and thus the conscious mind; whereas, ...

    manas (Sanskrit: "mind") from the root man, "to think" or "mind" — is the recording faculty; receives impressions gathered by the sense from the outside ...


    Sat chit ananda

    Sat describes an essence that is pure and timeless;

    Cit [citta] is consciousness;

    ānanda is absolute bliss.


    Chit (चित्) is a Sanskrit word meaning consciousness.
  10. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

    Aug 30, 2005
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    Here's the Pali:
    Pali Text Society Pali-English Dictionary

    highlights: (more at link for true language geeks)
    I. Meaning: the heart (psychologically), i. e. the centre & focus of man's emotional nature as well as that intellectual element which inheres in & accompanies its manifestations; i. e. thought. In this wise citta denotes both the agent & that which is enacted (see kamma II. introd.), for in Indian Psychology citta is the seat & organ of thought (cetasā cinteti; cp. Gr. frh/n, although on the whole it corresponds more to the Homeric qumo/s). As in the verb (cinteti) there are two stems closely allied and almost inseparable in meaning (see § III.), viz. cit & cet (citta & cetas); cp. ye should restrain, curb, subdue citta by ceto, M i.120, 242 (cp. attanā coday' attānaŋ Dhp 379 f.); cetasā cittaŋ samannesati S i.194 (cp. cetasā cittaŋ samannesati S i.194). In their general use there is no distinction to be made between the two (see § III.). -- The meaning of citta is best understood when explaining it by expressions familiar to us, as: with all my heart; heart and soul; I have no heart to do it; blessed are the pure in heart; singleness of heart (cp. ekagga); all of which emphasize the emotional & conative side or "thought" more than its mental & rational side (for which see manas & viññāṇa). It may therefore be rendered by intention, impulse, design; mood, disposition, state of mind, reaction to impressions. It is only in later scholastic lgg. that we are justified in applying the term "thought" in its technical sense. It needs to be pointed out, as complementary to this view, that citta nearly always occurs in the singular (=heart), & out of 150 cases in the Nikāyas only 3 times in the plural (=thoughts). The substantiality of citta (cetas) is also evident from its connection with kamma (heart as source of action), kāma & the senses in general. <-> On the whole subject see Mrs. Rh. D. Buddh. Psych. Eth. introd. & Bud. Psy. ch. II.
  11. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

    Oct 14, 2009
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    That Pali dictionary site is miss-labeled ---it's a concordance ---it's not a word glossary.

    What is the meaning of the phrase 'think before you speak'?

    It means that if you don't
    [intelligently] think about what you are going to say before you [mindlessly] say it, you could say the wrong thing and hurt someone's feelings and lose a friend.

    It is not:

    Are you out of your Intelligence?

    It is:

    Are you out of your Mind?


    Extroverts tend to think as they speak, unlike introverts who are far more likely to think before they speak. Extroverts often think best when they are talking. Concepts just don't seem real to them unless they can talk about them; reflecting on them isn't enough.

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