MEAT EATING CAUSES WARS! Refute it?

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by Bhaktajan II, Nov 20, 2012.

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  1. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Below are two forum links where I propagated the connection between meat-eating and violence & war:

    MEAT EATING CAUSES WARS


    Meat eating causes wars, illness, un-controllable lust, draught ---but this knowledge is above the head and shoulders of western civilisation's grand-parentage.

    The karmic-payback for enmass meat eating is documented generation after generation ---just analyse the last two centuries by counting and comparing pound-for-pound the mutual losses ---cadaver-to-cadaver.

    Such societies will incur enemies that may or may not seem befitting the "Good-guys" side.

    Vandal vs Romans perennially.

    In regards to "be like your father in Heaven" ---do you suppose that "fox-hunting" & factory farming & gentlemen-Farmers all occur in heaven?

    How does one Logically compute via,
    "By each according to his works",
    the cosmic "Price" accured to one-self [or to a mass of patrons],
    the "cost" of a beast's carcass for thanksgiving?

    How long does it take to tally-up mass karmic pay-back?

    http://www.interfaith.org/forum/the-bible-is-clear-on-12982-2.html

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Mis-translated Bible terms infavor of meat eating?

    As a long-standing member of the Hare Krishna Movement, I have learnt by some of my Hindu Vaishnav scholars that certain Bible terms are mis-translated:

    Indeed, My ulterior motive is to get nations to turn swords to Plowshares ---this is done by ultimately having a "Change of Heart" as to the reality of fostering Flesh eating [meat in German is 'Fleisch']. Flesh eating begets violence and non-compassion and the illogic fantasy of obtaining peace in an enviroment of butcher-based society.

    Vegetarianism as a sublime means of eating, is borne of ordhodox yoga disiplines ---therefore the higher goal of "a-himsa" (No-violence) ergo, "shanti" (peace) can be achieved.

    Please review the Greek & hebrew terms, and kindly, verify or deny their veracity:

    I'd like to cut and paste the whole Bible text, but for here are the Chapter/Verse of mention of NONE-FLESH EATING:

    Old Testiment RE-CAP:

    gen 1:29 [vs. Gen 9:3 ~immediately after recovery from the flood].

    gen 9:4-5

    num 11:33

    Isaiah 1:11,15

    Isaiah 66.3

    Leviticus 3:17


    Regarding, "Thou shall not Kill" ---reference:

    The hebrew words are: 'Lo tirtzach' ---according to Dr Reuben Alcalay's 'Complete Hebrew/English Dictionary', 'tirtzach' refers to any kind of killing.

    Christ was vegetarian ---there are 19 Gospel referneces to 'meat' all have been mis-translated from the original Greek Bible text:


    Greek (3 of references) - English meaning:
    Broma (4) - 'food' Romans 14:15, 20-21; I Corinthians 8:8, 10:3
    Brosis (4) - 'the act of eating' Romans 14:17
    Brosimos (1) - 'that which may be eaten'
    Phago (3) - 'to eat' Luke 8:55
    Prosphagon (1) - 'anything to eat'
    Trophe (6) - 'nourishment' John 4:8, Acts 9:19, Acts 27:33-36
    and,
    Trapesa (?) - 'table' "...They set a table before him ..." Acts 16:34

    Thus, John 21:5 "Have ye any meat" ---is incorrect. it should have been translated:
    "Have ye 'anything to eat'"

    Regarding, "FISH" ---reference: The secret & mystical symbol/Password for "Christian" in Roman Prosecution Times, derived from the Greek word for fish, ICHTHUS ---forming the acronym: Iesous Christos Theou Uios Soter (Jesus Christ Son of God Saviour)

    New Testiment RE-CAP:

    Matt 3:4 ~(the word 'locusts' used here means Locust beans, aka, carob, aka, St John's bread)
    Luke 8:55 ~the word used here is 'phago' (to eat).
    Isaiah 7:14,15 ~prophets predict Jesus's diet: "... Butter & Honey shall he eat ..."
    Luke 24:41-43 ~Note the words used, Jesus was offered two things 'Fish and a honeycomb' "... and he took it . . ." indicates that he choose one of the two judging from Isaiah 7:15 [the word used here is 'brosimos' (eatable)].

    See the Offence for fleash eating:

    Greek word for FLESH is: 'kreas'
    I Corinthians 8:13

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Can someone be brave enough to address these words ---for it is the next portal to world peace.

    Mis-translated Bible terms infavor of meat eating? - Religious Education Forum
     
  2. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    Using your logic, cultures that eat a disproportionate amount of meat (such as the Inuit in the far north, whose diet is almost all meat except for a few wild vegetables) would therefore be more war-like than other Native American tribes like the Ohlone Indians in California, whose diet was mostly acorns (with a little bit of meat included when they could get it).

    Can you present any evidence that native cultures who eat mostly meat (hunters) are more war-like than native cultures that eat mostly vegetables/tubers/nuts (gatherers) ?

    Iowa Guy (former vegan, now mostly-vegetarian)
     
  3. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    No, I cannot provide evidence . . . yet.

    As for post-colombian events . . . What do you think Cortez ate?
     
  4. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    As for post-modern events . . . just check the stats.
    The inmate population and many Notorious Headline Matinee Idols are NOT vegetarians.

    Oh No! There goes the neighborhood!

    At least give us to comforting factoid that yall aint eating it raw ---Salting it in the basement? ---Raw cadavers? Dehydrated critter cadavers?
     
  5. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    Bhak - I think your logic is also flawed from a "correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation" standpoint. That is to say, even if there is a correlation between eating meat & violent acts between humans, that doesn't mean that meat-eating CAUSES the violent acts between humans. It could simply be that violent people have no moral problem with eating meat.

    i.e. Buddhists aren't non-violent because they don't eat meat, instead they don't eat meat because they are non-violent.

    Similarly, if the entire nation of Israel quit eating meat tomorrow, they would probably still be violent towards Palestine (and vice-versa).

    Just some thoughts. I, too, think the world would be a better place if humans as a whole ate less meat. However, my perspective is more from an environmental & human health standpoint...
     
  6. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Matt 15

    10Summoning the crowd, He told them, “Listen and understand: 11 It’s not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”
    12 Then the disciples came up and told Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees took offense when they heard this statement?”
    13 He replied, “Every plant that My heavenly Father didn’t plant will be uprooted. 14 Leave them alone! They are blind guides. And if the blind guide the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
    15 Then Peter replied to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”
    16 “Are even you still lacking in understanding?” He asked. 17 “Don’t you realize that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But what comes out of the mouth comes from the heart, and this defiles a man. 19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, sexual immoralities, thefts, false testimonies, blasphemies. 20 These are the things that defile a man, but eating with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”​
     
  7. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    If you have never had the privilege of meeting Inuits (who have perhaps the highest consumption of meat per capita) I understand why someone may think this. But Inuits definitely refute the notion (as do Hopi, Ainu, and the Oceanic peoples--all famously peaceful, all big meat eaters).
     
  8. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    The Pharisees ['Capo d'tutti'] took offense when they heard,
    "It’s not what goes into the mouth ---that defiles a man,
    but what comes out of the mouth".

    “Every plant that God did not plant will be uprooted
    ---forget about them!
    ---They are blind guides."

    What comes out of the mouth comes from the heart,
    ---and this defiles a man.
    From the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries,
    sexual immoralities, thefts, false testimonies, blasphemies.

    #################################

    So . . . Don't be like the Capos that engage in:
    murders, adulteries, sexual immoralities, thefts, false testimonies, and blasphemies. Right? Don't propagate their slogans. Right?

    Why? Because, fogettabout what they are saying out their right side of the mouth ---worry about the brute subjugation of their actions.

    BTW, this NT Verse cannot possibly be about rules of kosher-ism NOR about vegetarian-ism!

    Is it not a warning about impending actions against the lords Good News?

    The "Explaination of the parable" seems IMHO to be answered in a metaphor.

    Again. I do not see this NT verse as addressing vegetarianism--- it speaks of artrosities that issue forth via Commands of Leaders to the 'peons' [latin word for commoner/worker].

    I truely see that my topic was not neccessarily addressed in the NT ---maybe!

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    OTOH, I would have expected a more sardonic reply ---ie: bhaktajan, you know that we are entering Kali-yuga enmass.
    bhaktajan, you know that kali-yuga's progress will give everyone whiplash,
    bhaktajan, you know that 'Maya' and 'Avidya' and 'ugra-karma' is due to get funkier than our grandfathers endured ---and even if that is mitigated by "the powers/providence makers that be" and so "Time will grind exceedingly fine" ---AND, what do you expect bhaktajan?

    Bhaktajan, you know that the Chinese aint gonna rebuild those Lama Temples.
    bhaktajan, you know that only a small percentage will follow the path of the Dharma.

    bhaktajan, you know that "Que sera sera"
     
  9. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Hey, I could have pulled the Hitler card and said something like, "Oh gee! I wonder how much more atrocious Hitler would have been if he hadn't been a vegetarian!" :eek:

    It's one reason why I won't take up the label of vegetarian, even if I never ate any animal products again!
     
  10. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Oy vey. So far from a brillent response.

    Hitler [AIUI: was NOT a vegetarian by choice 'but by doctor's orders'].

    Three's Company's Suzanne Somers is a vegetarian ---better she as 'one of the beautiful people' guide your prespective on the legacy of vegetarianism.



    This neo-classic Hitler rebuff to Vegetarianism is Bogus ---and the sheer logistics prove that the case is crystal clear without equivication ---for on the other side of the case we find: "No Senator, cigarettes are NOT addictive".

    Oy vey.
    "Butchers of the World Unite"
    versus
    "I'm made as hell and I ain't gonna take it anymore"

    The Hitler 'come-back' finally floored me presently . . . it's so Pathetic.


    “Pathetic” (adj.)

    1590s, "affecting the emotions, exciting the passions,"
    "moving, stirring, affecting" (16c.),
    from Gk. pathetikos "subject to feeling, sensitive, capable of emotion,"
    from pathetos "liable to suffer,"
    verbal adjective of pathein "to suffer" (see pathos).

    Meaning "arousing pity, pitiful" is first recorded 1737.

    Colloquial sense of "so miserable as to be ridiculous" is attested from 1937.

    Related: Pathetical (1570s); pathetically. Pathetic fallacy (1856, first used by Ruskin) is the attribution of human qualities to inanimate objects.

    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=pathetic


    +++++++++++++++++++++++++
    “Hackneyed”

    Oy vey, the definition citation makes this ‘pathetic hackneyed’ even more dreadful.

    1769, "kept for hire," pp. adjective from hackney. The figurative sense of "trite, so overused as to have become uninteresting" is older, 1749, from hack (n.2) in special sense of "one who writes anything for hire."

    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=hackneyed&searchmode=none

    ++++++++++++++++++++
    OTOH, self-ammusement comes in all forms.


    PS: The roman legions lived on lentles.
     
  11. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    I] I can't discern the exact sentiment you are stating.

    II] A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada had said of His "Hare Krishna" vegetarian diet:

    "We are not (Yoga-) Vegetarians,
    We are (yoga-) 'Krsnatarians,'
    who eat only sanctified food offered to the Lord (krsna-prasadam)."

    "The Bhagavad-gita also explains that a learned person sees all living entities equally panditah sama-darsinah because he sees the same soul within the different varieties of bodies.

    'We want brotherhood, but what does it mean to be brothers? It means we have the same father.' Only when we recognize God as the supreme father can we have real brotherhood.

    Knowing God to be the supreme father, we can understand that if we deal with God's other children nicely, God will be pleased. But if we try to exploit and commit violence upon one another, how will the supreme father be pleased? And if God is not pleased, how can we expect peace and prosperity in the world?

    "Animals are also children of God, although they have less developed intelligence. They resemble human children, who also do not have developed intelligence, or developed speech. Nor can they defend themselves.

    But in a family the strong are meant to protect the weak. For a stronger older brother to torture or massacre a baby is a terrible crime. How upset and angry the father would be!

    So animals should be treated like our younger brothers or sisters, to be protected, not exploited or slaughtered so we can eat their flesh.

    "By Krsna consciousness, by realizing that God is the supreme father of all living entities, we can actually achieve brotherhood and unity among all living beings.


     
  12. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Alright, let us start with this:

    Achieving brotherhood and unity by starting culture wars over cuisine? :confused:

    Shall I start in on the evils of taking milk away from young calves, or of adults consuming food meant for infants? What is the source of the rennet for the cheese you consume, for instance?

    Can you understand now why I won't take up that label? :rolleyes:
     
  13. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    This is crytic after crytic ---and presented in the form of a 'question' too.
    Feel free to open declare 'sort of what stance is' with specificity if you please.

    Alright, let us start with this:
    Paulie [from the Movie "Wise Guys"] warned Ray Liota [the actor] "You can't be using the stuff ---and selling it too".

    The Drug dealer is always advised not to abuse the drugs he pushing.

    **********************************
    You see, it is all about the 'karma'.
    Specifically, 'stupid, innane (karmic-) payback'.

    A samurai walked a vails thickness away from death . . .
    A samurai loathes to think that death could catch him by surprise . . .
    A samurai avoids the old threat of "A fly flew into my eye just when I could have parried the assailant's death blow".

    A samurai avoids initiating all forms of future bad karma ---especially mundane, vapid karma funk ilks.

    Karma is a brewing pot of Dante's possibilities . . . with plenty of time to experiment with young souls.
     
  14. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Not yet following you here yet.

    I am the adherent of cow-protection. The cow [and her husband] are the embodiment of mother earth's Homocentric mercy.

    Krishna is a Cowboy on a dairy farm. Krishna is also addressed as 'Govinda' and 'Gopala' ---Krishna pleases the cows.

    We humans think we aint biological bi-peds . . . but we think we are above beasts . . . but we think Man cannot aspire to immortality . . . but we can kill, gut, skin and roast quadra-peds to celebrate any given holiday moment . . . but we do nothing much else any more sublime than be pronounce poetic rhymes.

    Took away the milk so the the 'Farmer' can successfully pen the Calves in dark isolated cages along side autofeeders.

    Eat the calves' mother [and fathers] and sell the Gourmet Quality Veal meat ---for it's reknowned taste.

    As the sage of greed said, "There's one born everyday".

    Today is 26th Nov 2012:

    If life is great for at least ONE citisen of our world today ---it's due to their individual, indivisable personal "good-karma" ---the rest of the masses are subsistence workers.

    Karma reminder: Karma re-actions are temporary and fleeting
    ---but exceedingly fine.

    "Good Karma is a terrible thing to waste"
     
  15. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    I won't take up the label of Vegetarian!

    You claim that eating meat causes wars. Yet it seems that YOU are the one going on the warpath. {That is why I won't take up the vegetarian label, even though I don't particularly enjoy eating meat.}
     
  16. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Dearest SG, that is precisely why I no longer promulgate the creed. And my diet includes not anything that ever had a face.
     
  17. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    I still eat meat occasionally (as a condiment) in order to have plausible evidence to refute any accusation that I might be a vegetarian.
     
  18. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    The contextual reference … would seem to be a metaphor.

    BTW, Buddha’s Noble truth proclaimed to all sentient beings ---that all undertakings, and life itself is a suffering process ---which gives rise to the other supplementary Noble Truth, “Ahimsa” ---which guides all Humans to preform ‘actions’ that “Avoid bad Karma” ---lest one’s future leads to ‘re-birth’ [especially lower stratum of births in all sorts of sentient bodies] ---which again gives rise to repeating all the BASIC LESSONS of DHARMA.

    If Hitler was a vegetarian ---that would be a very savvy [yet uncanny to me] way of avoiding minor token karma whilst ‘getting away with Murder’.

    Great rogues would know to avoid the small stuff ---which indeed, requires attention to details.

    Yet the Prisons around the world are occupied by 101% meat and leg and ears and guts and wings and feet eaters. IMO the choice muscles are too expensive, and sell to highest paid markets.

    Finally, Buddha’s death due to [accidently] eating meat served to him un-knowingly ---testifies to how Karma is transferred via Bodily fluids ---and thus, the lesson is clear.

    BTW, IMHO, I speculate that “goodness” can be a receptical for “Badness” [but not vise-versa] ---and, Badness is attracted to goodness in the way the old saying says:
    “Nature they say hates a vaccum” ---thus IMO, sinfullness can be absorbed by Goodness . . . but then, many times the Sin obliterates the Good.

    It is “Maintanace” that counts.

    It is easier for a Good person to ‘go bad’ than it is for a bad person to ‘go good’.

    I am on a WARPATH?
    Are we stepping across the cadavers of the fallen while we travel to greet eachother with a handshake?

    A WARPATH ---with a casualty count of: ‘what’? ‘who’? ‘what’s its’? ‘watcha-ma-call-its’?

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    "Label" ---Who is reading Label?

    Am I propagandising "Labels"?????????

    Aren't you Buddhist Ole Gal?

    Aren't I propagandising (Ahimsa-)Dharma?

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    This is worth repeatedly saying loud and proud:
     
  19. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    One thing I have noticed during my last 10 years of mindful-meat-eating, is that people are quick to try to label you if you are a non-conformist... In general, it makes humans uncomfortable if they can't stick an off-the-shelf label on aonther person (be it vegetarian, buddhist, atheist, republican, etc).
     
  20. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    We silly humans like to cling to our labels as much as the labels like to cling to us!
     
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