Is Wahhabi "true" Islam?

Discussion in 'Islam' started by Buddhist_Seeker, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. Buddhist_Seeker

    Buddhist_Seeker New Member

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    Despite how it is portrayed in the media, Islam used to be a fairly tolerant religion.

    When the moors were in Europe, one of the reasons the Christians wanted them out of Europe (particularly Spain) was because some of their practices were deemed "too permissible". Ancient Islamic literature was also filled with LOTS of homo-eroticism.

    Then Wahhabism came around and it is now the predominant school of thought behind militant Islam. Many scholars say that most, if not all, of the beliefs in this branch are not even found in the Qur'an or Hadiths.

    So is Wahhabi a legitimate branch of Islam? Are it's adherents true Muslims?
     
  2. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    Wahhabism is a reactionary movement against the excesses of Sufism, although its just a form of Sunni Islam really.

    The main problem I see is that its so well funded to spread its fundamentalist slant on Sunni Islam, which is already pretty extreme world wide which is dangerous and does not bode well for the future IMO.
     
  3. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Take that up a level--Wahhabism, Kachism, and Fundamentalism--are all pretty reactionary (due to Sufism, Reform Judaism, modernity, and science).
     
  4. Amica

    Amica Member

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    "Wahhabi" Islam--I have learned is a wrong, offensive term. Why? People are made to believe that following Al-Wahhab is something awful. However, many Muslims forget (I was one of them for a while) that Al-Wahhab is one of the Holy Attributes of the Almighty. Al-Wahhab Holy Attribute means: constant bestower of gifts.

    Yes, there are a group of Muslims who follow rigid rules of Islamic faith. These people are predominantly in Saudi Arabia, but have spread to other areas where they are still minority. To some, these people follow rules that seem so harsh that they question whether it is true Islam or not. For example, they limit women's social role in the society, segregate the sexes, and promote strict Sharia laws. In some instances, some of the followers of this religious group act violently toward their own to prove a point: they do not fear beating a person in public if they think the Muslim did something religiously forbidden. Also, they are not very friendly toward those of other faiths. Isolating family members (example: wives) from the rest of the family is not uncommon either with them.

    I respect their strong faith in the islamic principles and I will defend their right to practice Islam the way they choose always. I just think the brothers and sisters who are so strict in faith do not encourage people to stay and come into Islam. Rather, through some of the behaviors they help those who wish to portray Islam in a negative light. In terms of beliefs I think people who believe in Al-Wahhab (Allah) SWT their faith is true. In terms of certain behaviors aimed to curb social freedoms and rights of minorities: these people are straying away from Islamic teachings of respect of the other, advice rather than violence, calling people to faith rather than forcing others into the faith, keeping family relations rather than cutting them, being a good neighbor to those of other faiths (provided they do not attack Muslims first), respecting women rather than enslaving them (I am not talking about hijab here-hijab IS NOT slavery) etc.
     
  5. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    Wahhabi is a minority astray sect not representing the true Islam in certain creedal points

    the proper Islam in all it's aspects is, the Islam represnted by the four traditional schools of thoughts; Hanafi, Hanbali, Maaliki and Shafiee; allthough some Wahhabi's claim to follow the Hanbali school of thought, yet they deviate from it in many issues

    some westerners make the mistake of thinking Wahhabism is synonymous with traditional Islam and represented by the mainstream Muslims as apposed to the liberal or modernists; the following article clarifies this issue

    Question:


    I live in England and I feel very depressed. Everywhere I go, I seem to only meet salafis and salafi/wahabbi inclined people.



    Answer:

    [​IMG]
    In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

    It�s just that you have had bad luck in meeting the wrong people. It is incorrect to say that the majority of the Muslims are Salafis and that only Muslims from the Indian subcontinent are non-Salafis. The fact is that, over 85% of Muslims follow the traditional orthodox Sunni path of the mainstream Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama�ah. This has been the way for over thousand years, and only recently (in the last 30 years) has the so called Salafi sect come into existence.

    The majority of Sunni Muslims in the Indo/Pak, Asia, Turkey, Syria, Iraq, UAE and many other countries follow the Hanafi Madhab. Muslims in Indonesia, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Yemen, Egypt and parts of Syria generally follow the Shafi�i school. The Maliki Madhab is mostly practised in North African countries, such as Tunisia, Algeria, Mauritania, Morocco, Libya and others. The Hanbalis can be found in parts of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Syria and other countries. The Ash�ari and Maturudi Aqidahs are also quite widespread in these Muslim lands.

    Therefore, it is totally incorrect to assume that Sunni Muslims are in the minority; rather, as they have always been, they remain the mainstream and the majority.

    Have Salafis Taken Over the Muslim World and Muslim Communities
     
  6. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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  7. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    That is right to non-muslims, however the Muslims are more nuanced as to who the 'Sunni's are for that word denotes the rightly guided group! :)
     
  8. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    This is Salafi propagand Sis, for since this word has a negative connotation these days, the Salafi's prefer to be called 'Salafi' [one who follows the muslims of first three generations] for that is what they claim to be

    No Muslims can ever be mistaken into thinking it is wrong to Follow Allah who is also -Al-Wahab [the bestower] for it just beggers belief that they can think that following Allah becomes wrong when Allah is called by any of his 99 names, thus there is no harm in using the Word 'Wahhabi' meaning that this group follow their founder, muhammamd bin Abdul Wahhab

    If you think about it, the followers of the various Imaams are named after the founder of their schools, i.e, the followers of Abu-Hanifa are called Hanafi's, etc, thus there is nothing wrong with calling the followers of Ibn Abdul-Wahhab after his name and this describes them better than 'Salafi' for Salafi they are indeed not :)
     
  9. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    I disagree its plain and simple religious bigotry.

    plenty of salafis wahabis are also sunnis.
     
  10. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    'Wahhabi' in the current Islamic lexicon refers to the followers of Muhammamd bin Abdul Wahhab, the XVIIIth century imam who formed a coalition with the Hause of Ibn Saud. It is a subgroup within Salafists; a term recurring since the IXth century (200 AH) or so. However, more and more the term Salafi is a term of self-identification.

    Like me calling myself a Christian (being mystical, panentheistic, and universalist) really sticks in some more traditional Christians' craws, the use of Salafi by, say the Muslim Brotherhood, outrages some mainstream Sunnis.

    Of course this is all outside the greater Islamic community that includes Shi'a, Alevis, those Sufis outside of Sunni or Shi'a, Quranists, Ibadi, and Ahmadiyya (all usually considered backsliders by the Sunni, as I understand it).

    So, as used by Muslim scholars (as far as I can tell), Sunni ( "people of Muhammad's tradition and the consensus of the community") is the broadest grouping, Salafi (" those who follow predecessors") is a subgroup within the Sunni, and Wahhabi ("those who follow Wahhab") is a smaller subgroup with the Salafis.

    Please, Muslim friends, feel free to correct my mistakes.
     
  11. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    exactly what i expect for a total and utter ignoramous [i.e, a non-muslim in regards to Islam] to do! :D
     
  12. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    oops i take that back ncot, for there are indeed some relatively good Salafi's that may be sunni's but were obviously talking about the deviant one's here
     
  13. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    very good definition for a non-muslim ;)
     
  14. Amica

    Amica Member

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    Abdullah salaam,

    Thank you brother for clarifying for me the difference between Salaafis and Wahhabis. I have read that there was a leader with the last name Wahhab, but was not sure what to think of it. Later, I heard a lecture from sheik Yusuf Estes and some others who discouraged Muslims from calling people "Wahhabis" in a way that they feel offended. These scholars referenced Holy Attribute Al-Wahhab as the reason to avoid calling people as such. Certainly, those who call themselves Salaafis hate the "Wahhabis" name and do get offended by it. Now, it makes sense to me why. It has little/nothing to do with Holy Attribute, but much to do with the teachings of the man, Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab.
     
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    There are charts of lineage of Christian Denominations/Sects....are there similar charts for Islam somewhere and any definition of their differences? Which groups are more literal/fundamental and which groups are more spritual/mystical... I know Beruit, Kabul, Tehran, Bagdad and more used to have nightclubs that Muslims frequented....where folks would have parties with alcohol and not have the issues of today where I understand it is kept quite under wraps... a time when secular Muslims were as numerous as secular Christians, Jews and Hindus...
     
  16. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    that is right Sister, the Wahhabi's who call themselves Salafi's now hate being called the former for that name ahs come to be associated with negativeness, just as, say, AlQaida, etc, this is why they insist on being called 'Salafi's instead; but while they do that, they vigorously denounce sufism and to them that word is as negative as 'Waahabi' is to sunni's and they call sunni's 'Sufi's'; so they basically play the same game; hypocrytical i call it :D

    Yusuf estes is a Wahhabi himself
     
  17. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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  18. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    Hi wil, here's a chart i came across on another forum, i'll post that up and give you a bit of my two cents too, that wont be so bad will it? :D

    1. Jarudiah:
    Followers of Abu'l-Jarud. They believe Holy Prophet (pbuh) designated Al-Isa as the Imam by his characteristics but not by name.

    2. Sulamania:
    Followers of Sulaiman ibn-Jarir al-Zaidi. They believed Imamat was a matter of Jaririya conference and could be confirmed by two best Muslims.

    3. Butriyah:
    They did not dispute the Khilafat of Uthman (ra), neither they attack him nor Hurariyah praise him.

    4. Yaqubiyya:
    They accepted the Khilafat of Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra), but did not reject those who rejected these Khulifaa. They also believed that Muslim commiters of Major sins will be in hell forever.

    5. Hanafiyah:
    Followers of the Imammate of Muhammad ibn-al-Hanifah. They believe that Allah might have had a beginning.

    6. Karibiyah:
    They believed that Imam Muhammad ibn-al-Hanifah is not dead and is the Imam Ghaib (in disappearance) and the expected Mahdi.

    7. Kamiliyah:
    Followers of Abu-Kamil. They believed companions to be heretic because they forsook their allegiance to Ali (ra) and condemn Ali (ra) for ceasing to fight them. They believed in the returning of the dead before the Day of Resurrection and that Satan is right in preferring fire to clay.

    8. Muhammadiyyah:
    Followers of Muhammad ibn-Abdullah ibn-al-Hassan. They do not believe/Mughairiyah that Imam Muhammad ibn-Abdullah died and that he is the Imam Ghaib and awaited Mahdi.

    9. Baqiriyah:
    Followers of Muhammad ibn-Ali al-Baqir. They believe him to be the Imam Ghaib and expected Mahdi.

    10. Nadisiyah:
    They believe that those who consider themselves better than anyone else are Kafirs (disbelievers).

    11. Sha'iyah:
    They believe that the one who has recited La Ilaha Il-Allah (there is none worthy of worship except Allah), whatever she or he does, will never be punished.

    12. Ammaliyah:
    They believe that faith for one is what he/she sincerely practices.

    13. Ismailiyah:
    They believe in the continuity of Imammate among the descendants of Ismail ibn-Ja'far.

    14. Musawiyah:
    They believe Musa ibn-Ja'far to be the Imam Ghaib and expected Mahdi / Mamturah.

    15. Mubarakiyah:
    They believe in the continuity of Imammate among the descendants of Muhammad ibn-Ismail ibn-Ja'far.

    16. Kathiyah:
    They believe that expected Mehdi will be twelveth Imam among the /Ithn Áshariya descendants of the Áli ibn-abi-Talib. (The Twelvers).

    17. Hashamiya:
    They Predicate a body to Allah and also allege Prophet (pbuh) of disobedience/ Taraqibiyah to Allah

    18. Zarariyah:
    They believe that Allah did not live nor had any attributes till He created for Himself life and His attributes.

    19. Younasiyah:
    Followers of Younas ibn-Ábd-al-Rahman al-Kummi. They believe that Allah is borne by the bearers of His Throne, though He is stronger than they are.

    20. Shaitaniyah/Shireekiyah:
    They believed in the view that deeds of servants of Allah are substances; and a servant of Allah can really produce a substance.

    21. Azraqaih:
    Followers of Nafi ibn-al-Azraq. They do not believe in the good dreams and visions and claim that all forms of revelations have ended.

    22. Najadat:
    Followers of Najdah ibn-Ámir al-Hanafi. They abolished the punishment of drinking wine also they believed that sinners of this sect would not be treated in hellfire but some other place before allowed in Paradise.

    23. Sufriyah:
    Followers of Ziyad ibn-al-Asfar. They believed that sinners are in fact polytheists.

    24. Ajaridah:
    Followers of Abd-al-Karim ibn-Ajrad. They believed that a child should be called to Islam after it has attained maturity. Also they believed booty of war to be unlawful till the owner is killed.

    25. Khazimiyah:
    They believe Allah loves men of all faiths even if one has been a disbeliever most of his life.

    26. Shuaibiyah/Hujjatiyah:
    They believed that what Allah desires does happen no matter what and what does not happen it means Allah desires it not.

    27. Khalafiyah:
    Followers of Khalaf. They do not believe in fighting except under the leadership of an Imam.

    28. Ma'lumiyah/Majhuliah:
    They believed that whoever did not recognise Allah by His names was ignorant of Him and anyone ignorant of Him was a disbeliever.

    29. Saltiyah:
    Followers of Salt ibn-Usman. They believed in the conversion of adults only and if father has converted to Islam children were considered disbelievers till they reach maturity.

    30. Hamziyah:
    Followers of Hamza ibn-Akrak. They believe that children of polytheists are condemned to hell.

    31. Tha'libiyah:
    Followers of Tha'labah ibn-Mashkan. They believe that parents remain guardians over their children of any age until children make it clear to parents that they are turning away from truth.

    32. Ma'badiyah:
    They did not believe in taking or giving alms from or to slaves.

    33. Akhnasiyah:
    They do not believe in waging a war except in defence or when the opponent is known personally.

    34. Shaibaniyah/Mashbiyah:
    Followers of Shaiban ibn-Salamah al-Khariji. They believe that Allah resembles His creatures.

    35. Rashidiyah:
    They believe that land watered by springs, canals or flowing rivers should pay half the Zakat (tithe), while land watered by rain only should pay he full Zakat.

    36. Mukarramiyah/tehmiyah:
    Followers of abu-Mukarram. They believe that ignorance constitutes as disbelief. Also that Allah enmity or friendship depends upon the state of a persons' belief at his death.

    37. Abadiyah/Afáliyah:
    They consider Abdullah ibn-Ibad as their Imam. They believe in doing good deeds without the intention of pleasing Allah.

    38. Hafsiyah:
    Consider Hafs ibn-abi-l-mikdam as their Imam. They believe that only knowing Allah frees one from polytheism.

    39. Harithiya:
    Followers of Harith ibn-Mazid al-Ibadi. They believe that the ability precedes the deeds.

    40. Ashab Ta'áh:
    They believe that Allah can send a prophet without giving him any sign to prove his prophecy.

    41. Shabibiyah/Salihiyah:
    Followers of Shabib ibn-Yazid al-Shaibani. They believe in the Imamate of a woman named Ghazalah.

    42. Wasiliyah:
    Followers of Wasil ibn-'Ata al-Ghazza. They believe that does who commit major sins will be punished in hell but still remain believers.

    43. Ámriyah:
    Followers of Amir ibn-Ubaid ibn-Bab. They reject the legal testimony of people from supporters of either side of the battle of Camel.

    44. Hudhailiyah/Faniya:
    Followers of abu-al-Hudhail Muhammad ibn-al-Hudhail. They believe that both Hell and Paradise will perish and that preordination of Allah can cease, at which time Allah will no longer be omnipotent.

    45. Nazzamiyah:
    Followers of abu-Ishaq Ibrahim ibn-Saiyar. They do not believe in the miraculous nature of the Holy Quran nor do they believe in the miracles of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) like splitting the moon.

    46. Mu'ammariyah:
    They believe that Allah neither creates life nor death but it is an act of the nature of living body.

    47. Bashriyah:
    Followers of Bashr ibn-al-Mu'tamir. They believe that Allah may forgive a man his sins and may change His mind about this forgiveness and punish him if he is disobedient again.

    48. Hishamiyah:
    Followers of Hisham ibn-ämr al-Futi. They believe that if a Muslim community come to consensus it needs an Imam and if it rebels and kills its Imam, no one should be chosen an Imam during a rebellion.

    49. Murdariyah:
    Followers of Isa ibn-Sabih. They believe that staying in close communication with the Sultan (ruler) makes one unbeliever.

    50. Ja'friyah:
    Followers of Ja'far ibn-Harb and Ja'far ibn-Mubashshir. They believe that drinking raw wine is not punishable and that punishment of hell could be inferred by a mental process.

    51. Iskafiyah:
    Followers of Muhammad ibn-Abdallah al-Iskafi. They believe that Allah has power to oppress children and madman but not those who have their full senses.

    52. Thamamiyah:
    Followers of Thamamah ibn-Ashras al-Numairi. They believe that he whom Allah does not compel to know Him, is not compelled to know and is classed with animals who are not responsible.

    53. Jahiziayh:
    Followers of 'Ámr ibn-Bahr al-Jahiz. They believe that Allah is able to create a thing but unable to annihilate it.

    54. Shahhamiyah/Sifatiyah:
    Followers of abu-Yaqub al-Shahham. They believe that everything determined is determined by two determiners, one the creator and the other acquirer.

    55. Khaiyatiyah/Makhluqiyah:
    Followers of abu-al-Husain al-Khaiyat. They believe that everything non-existent is a body before it appears, like man before it is born is a body in non-existence. Also that every attribute becomes existent when it makes its appearance.

    56. Ka'biyah:
    Followers of abu-qasim Abdullah ibn-Ahmed ibn-Mahmud al-Banahi known as al-Ka'bi. They believe that Allah does not see Himself nor anyone else except in the sense that He knows himself and others.

    57. Jubbaiyah:
    Followers of abu-'Ali al-Jubbai. They believe that Allah obeys His servants when he fulfils their wish.

    58. Bahshamiyah:
    Followers of abu-Hashim. They believe that one, who desires to do a bad deed, though may not do it, commit infidelity and deserve punishment.

    59. Ibriyah:
    They believe that Holy Prophet (pbuh) was a wise man but not a prophet.

    60. Zanadiqiyah:
    They believe that the incident Miraj was a vision of the Holy prophet (pbuh) and that we can see Allah in this world.

    61. Qabariyya:
    They do not believe in the punishment of grave.

    62. Hujjatiya:
    They do not believe in the punishment for deeds on the grounds.

    63. Fikriyya:
    They believe that doing Dhikr and Fikr (Remembering and thinking about Allah) is better than worship.

    64. 'Aliviyah/Ajariyah:
    They believe that Hazrat Ali shared Prophethood with Mohammad (pbuh)

    65. Tanasikhiya:
    They believe in the re-incarnation of soul.

    66. Rajiýah:
    They believe that Hazrat Ali ibn-abi-Talib will return to this world.

    67. Ahadiyah:
    They believe in the Fardh (obligations) in faith but deny the Sunnah.

    68. Radeediyah:
    They believe that this world will live forever.

    69. Satbiriyah:
    They do not believe in the acceptance of repentance.

    70. Lafziyah:
    They believe that Quran is not the word of God but only its meaning and essence is the word of God. Words of Quran are just the words of the narrator.

    71. Ashariyah:
    They believe that Qiyas (taking a guess) is wrong and amounts to disbelief.

    72. Bada'iyah:
    They believe that obedience to Ameer is obligatory no matter what he commands.

    73. Ahmadiyya:
    The followers of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of Qadian (as). (1835 to 1908)
    They believe that he is THE PROMISED MESSIAH and IMAM MEHDI.
    They believe in the FINALITY OF PROPHETHOOD OF THE HOLY PROPHET (pbuh) and that he was the SEAL of the all the Prophets.
    They believe that the Jesus Christ was NOT CRUCIFIED but DIED a natural death.
    ................................................

    now the ahmadiayah sect is probably not inlcuded in the 73 sect mentioned in haidth, for that 73 will be all muslim, 72 deviated and one correct one; the 72 sects will go to hell for a temporary period and then go to heaven while the rightly guided one will go straight to heaven

    in terms of how the various sects surviving today are, well the Salafi's are very litteral in their interpretation, even to the extent where they interpret seemingly anthropomorphic verses litterally but they do say they do not know how these 'attributes' are, for example they will affirn God has a hand, but they will also add that it is nothing like that of the creations and we do not know 'how' that hand is etc,

    the Shia's have the most deviency; they could be considered as extreme and very allegorical indeed

    the Sunni's are a all in one package; litteral, allegorical, spiritual, etc ,etc, and alltogether they have moderations of everything

    hope this helps

    Peace

    ps: there's probably one or two more sects in that list then there should be, for the sects of Shia and sunni dont seem to be there
     
  19. Vessariò

    Vessariò New Member

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    As a non-Muslim this is how I see it:

    Wahhabism was intended to "purify" Islam, but in essence follows something that was taught by a man named Abd-al-Wahhaab. In that respect, it goes against centuries of Islamic scholarship that are represente by the Hanafi, Hanbali, Maaliki and Shafi'i schools of thought, an can be thought of as being a "fifth" school of Sunni thought.

    As such, one could almost make the comparison between the Salafi movement and other Islamic schools as being similar to the difference between American evangelicalism and Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.
     
  20. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Thanx V for your comment and reopening this...

    As Abdullah, I missed your response completely.....

    Thank you, quite interesting....
     

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