Was Jesus Michael or God?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by donnann, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    Depends if you want to look at it generally or get into advanced study. Generally it means that within you is love, compassion kindness ect as well as it being all around us in the world. Advanced would be that god has a presence on earth but also that your own personal soul and spirit that is heavenly is contained within your own body.
     
  2. AdvaitaZen

    AdvaitaZen Well-Known Member

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    You have not described an experience.

    Look right now, what does everything within you and everything without have in common?

    What is it which is within and without? Beyond words, what is it?
     
  3. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    One case of personal experience is that I was in very bad shape. Someone had compassion for me and showed me kindness. To me that is the kingdom of heaven on earth. He was exhibiting the qualities of christ. I have other experiences but you would not believe me if I told you. What they have in common is they are good experiences. If this isnt what your talking about then please explain it.
     
  4. AdvaitaZen

    AdvaitaZen Well-Known Member

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    The Kingdom of Heaven is not limited to positive experiences, it is never concerned with boosting your self-esteem. These are actually ideas that have caused us to miss the Kingdom, they are creating our ego, our sense of separateness.

    What is common to both what is within and without is that you are aware of it, both are contained in your consciousness. You are the creator of your reality, you are coloring it all.

    What is this you?
     
  5. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    In one sense I agree with you, that both are contained in your consciousness. I do however believe in predestination. What are your thoughts on predestination?
     
  6. AdvaitaZen

    AdvaitaZen Well-Known Member

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    It is a misunderstanding.

    All currents flow to the ocean, the path is not determined beforehand, nor is anything passed along the way. If there is an obstacle, the path of least resistance will be followed, but again this is not known beforehand.

    Free choice is also erroneous though, for while we can direct energy, we cannot dictate the surrounding circumstances we might encounter. Further, there is no free choice because all currents are going to the ocean, we cannot avoid eventually arriving at the ocean.

    In reality though we never actually leave the ocean, we never go anywhere, we never accomplish anything. It is all one movement going nowhere in particular, thus there cannot be said to be any destination or origin.

    Awareness is not touched by anything in consciousness, so again I ask: what is the nature of this awareness?

    Find out.
     
  7. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    Predestination, in theology, is the doctrine that all events have been willed by God. John Calvin interpreted biblical predestination to mean that God willed eternal damnation for some people and salvation for others.[1] Explanations of predestination often seek to address the so-called "paradox of free will", whereby God's omniscience seems incompatible with human free will. In this useage, predestination can be regarded as a form of religious determinism; and usually predeterminism.
    I do not believe in John Calvins interpretation of it just to let you know. Predestination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I believe everyone deserves to be saved. I believe gods omniscience is compatible with human free will and that is predestination. Didnt want you to get the wrong idea.
     
  8. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    In my experience Thomas, and you can take it for what it is: my related experience, nothing more or less, Michael is also some sort of Title.
    It has repeatedly been my experience of having heard Michaels (plural) being spoken of. I do not know the details of that, I do not remember what was said. But I have two pieces of interesting side evidence for my guesses.
    I once made a dedicated effort to learn the details of the Fall of the Angels, in as much as I was able to understand. Sparing you the details, even though it is the very incident you post, Our Christ Michael came and incarnated seven times; the seventh being as the man Jesus, to take over our care as guardian of the development of man after the fall of Lucifer and his cohorts.
    To be clear, Lucifer was the Christ Michael before the new one who became Jesus.
    Also, at the time of Jesus' ascension, He granted His dispensation, which comes as an effect of His specific qualities. He is an incarnation of the Love of Our Father, as as such the previous system that Lucifer had set up did not suit him. He created a method for the reclamation of souls - The Laws of Karma, where a soul is guided through it's development, so as not to fail in it's attempt to reach maturity, where it could become a vessel of Our Father.

    So, in answer to your question: He was the Christ Michael who became Jesus for our benefit. :)

    edit: forgot number two - The Urantia Book, the only other place I ever saw the same beings I understood to be Michaels, called Michaels.......
    edit #2: Christ Michaels are considered to BE Our Father in Action. They are the Our Father of the whole idea of Our Father.... they do not represent feminine qualities, others do that...
     
  9. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    Michael is a literal being an angelic being that comes from beyond this universe and its heavenly houses. The concept that Adam was literally Michael is based on a philosophical approach of being like Michael as well as saying he took on a human body.l Michael is firstborn of the heavenly host, the kingdom beyond this one. He is a male. He has a female counterpart called Faith. There is also Gabriel, Raphiel, ect. All archangels names end in el. El meaning deity. There is also Lucifel. These are Elohim. Then there is GOD The ElOHIM of the elohim or as they used to phrase it the GOD of the GODS. My question is do you think that Jesus was Michael or GOD that incarnated into the human body. Angelic beings from beyond have bodies souls and spirits that are one and remain one even when they incarnate. The prehuman self is sealed within and without the body. Fallen angels are in the same condition as human beings are. They are not one with the soul and spirit parts that make up their whole being. This is identified by miracles that occur to the body of one sent. I read your post on consciousness in another post and if I may say so your very intelligent. Angelic beings from beyond are crystal beings.
     
  10. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    I know this is my second post but I wanted to explain incarnation as I am speaking of it. If you have ever seen the movie the fifth element when they take a part of the female and form a human body out of it. The angelic being takes on a human body. Of course this doesn't happen with a machine like in the movie and happens at conception when the being from beyond descends into the egg and is sealed. The prehuman self is sealed within the body and is revealed during miracle events that are seal openings and bindings of that body. There is what they call a veil of forgetfulness so the being knows its from beyond but doesnt remember residing there. The incarnated being is much bigger and consists of more light, prehuman, and that light is more spread out. It condenses when it incarnates so it is sealed into the human body. The human body is an anatomical replica of the prehuman self.
     
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Why? The traditional title is Archangel.

    You're in the realm of speculation, really. And some of it, I have to say, seems a fanciful imagining on a few lines of Scripture.

    Judaism doesn't touch it, Christianity works on a analogical interpretation of the Hebrew texts. Islam has the most to say. Then people have been making stuff up, ever since.

    I have no idea where you're getting your data from, so I can't really comment.
     
  12. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Thomas, that is the problem with Spirituality in general, isn't it? The traditional (be they Zoroastrian, Jewish, Christian, Muslim or Sikh) structures and traditions fall prey to the whim of "objective" analysis from outside the tradition.
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Sure is.

    Yup.
     
  14. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    Your right the traditional title is Archangel. Michael the Archangel.
     
  15. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    Let me say that i see and recognize your perspective for it's validity. I don't want any misunderstandings, and I appreciate the spirit of your answer.

    I am familiar with the things you are saying, but I have what is certainly a different perspective on what is behind the images , and what it all means. By no means would I makes claims that invalidate your words. I know it doesn't work that way. You may not be familiar with me (it's been a while since I was here), but I speak my mind with the intent of discussing things. Don't mistake my statements for arguments.
    The first question I would have to ask you is: What if someone else knew of who you speak, but without the angelic paraphernalia?
     
  16. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    Can you clarify what you mean by of who I speak and it being without the angelic information?
     
  17. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    Several things I would take exception with. Michael is the Metatron - The Voice of God. He has a job and has had it for quite a while now.
    The reason El is in all their names is because God was initially understood as El, the Father of the Gods within the Jewish Pantheon. They would, of course, have added the Fathers name onto the offspring because it was SOCIAL CONVENTION, like saying "Billy John-son".
    Michael was not Adam - God was not Adam. Jesus was Adam before He was Jesus. He was also several others of the Characters in the Old Testament - such as Melchizedek. Jesus underwent 7 incarnations to achieve mastery, the last being the man called Jesus of Nazareth - then He went back to the Father (He left the physical).
    Angelic Beings are indeed different from uprising souls - for they never achieved majority from within an evolutionary being. They were created and stand outside of time. They have a task and radiate a Specific Quality of the Father - They REPRESENT the Father in such a way that to see one of the Arch Angels is to see God. Jesus of course, is on the highest order of Creator Sons. He has the responsibility of ALL of our spiritual development - our thanks go to Him for being The Father for us, in our little neck of the woods.

    Angels, who have no need to incarnate, will never experience sexuality. There is no need and angels don't do senseless things that I am aware of. Those that incarnate fall under the veil same as they rest of us, and must choose a sex just like anyone else. But not all angelic beings will ever see a need.

    Where I read descriptions of angels, with their fluttery wings and such, I am aware I have slipped into fairy tale. Angels to me are beings of POWER. They are not playful, they are not talkative, and they will cinch your butt up like a zip tie to actually be brave enough to accost one with ridiculous questions. On the other hand, they have amazing qualities that immediately make one feel rough and unfinished. Perhaps the most beautiful features in creation when they choose to have features, and the most intimidating displays of power one can imagine can be witnessed watching Angels go about their work. They have voices that make sentient creatures stop in their tracks and listen when they praise the Father in song; they sing in colors and emotions as well as what we would recognize as sound.
    In short, they are in my experience, nothing like the creatures described in the Bible.

    And all of that just goes to show you that each and every person can experience the very same thing and "See" different aspects of what is happening, different visuals, and even different sounds.

    What I have struggled with for many, many years, is why all the Christian symbolism fades away with time. Was I honestly so programmed to believe in things I had never seen? the answer is YES. The longer I explore with an open mind, the more religion falls away from all of my experiences, and it becomes like a big wide open free for all in creation; go where you will and learn that which you would like, to take back to The Father at the end.
     
  18. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    I mean, what would it mean to you if those beings you refer to were not distinctly "Christian"? Lets make it a hypothetical question. What if you were to discover that the beings who you relate to as Angels, actually had no "Christian" resemblance?

    I am not attacking you - as you will read in another post: It's an actual question for me that I haven't fully understood.
     
  19. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    You describe things I have seen, but in a completely different context that I can make little sense of.
    There are laws in Creation. Since the midwayers were forced to leave after the rebellion of Lucifer - there have been no halfway creatures here.
    What you describe may have happened a long time ago - but to my knowledge doe not still happen.
    Now it is possible for an Angel to assume Avatar status - to take over the body of a suicide or depressed person, but to my knowledge, if you intend to be born on Earth - it will be the same way for everyone; enroll in the school and you WILL take classes.

    The Etheric Body is the template for the Physical. It is the perfect example of who you intend to be in your incarnation, but most people fall out of alignment with it and illness results, due to a fall in vibration. The Ethieric Body is so close to the physical body that the mental body can have an immense influence on it, also causing misalignment and illness if one does not take care.

    Each body, from the Etheric outwards, gets larger and larger until a certain vibration is reached and the bodies fall away and the spirit body is the vessel. The spirit body had no form and one can "see" in 360 degrees. If one is able to see the spirit body from the physical, it will appear as a point of light with a radiance (an orb). But there are numerous bodies before one gets to the spirit body if one is going through each one (which is not necessary).
    Simply changing vibration and entering another sphere brings the correct body to abide there, it's automatic from what I can tell, and WILL respond to thought commands such as "one level higher" or "the mental sphere". I know those words don't really mean anything but the memory I associate with them - but it works.

    I would love to borrow your eyes one day, if this is first hand knowledge here, if that were possible. :) I am fascinated by the differences I find with others. I have a good friend who has similar abilities and I am constantly amazed how the very same experience can be interpreted so many ways due to experience.
     
  20. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    By angelic beings I mean from beyond this universe and its heavenly houses. I say heavenly houses because of the different dimensions. Beings from beyond has prehuman bodies. They consist of much more light spread out and are much larger. Kinda like the body in the 5th element when they said she has dna tightly packed but with more nano groups with infinite genetic knowledge. The prehuman self condenses and descends into the egg and is sealed. The body is a replica of its prehuman self and it has to be suitable to contain the prehuman self. Of course its also a product of genetics. If beings from beyond this universe were to show up it would be in a celestial sphere. Similar to the movie starman but not exactly like it. I like to use visual aids to explain what I mean. These are beings that are pure love light.
     

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