A good rule of thumb for all seekers

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by AdvaitaZen, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. AdvaitaZen

    AdvaitaZen Well-Known Member

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    So in deep sleep, you don't exist?

    In a way you are perfectly correct, what you think you are is not there in deep sleep. Yet, what you actually are IS there, for otherwise an alarm clock or outside noise wouldn't wake us.

    It is dangerous to only look at a particular state of experiencing, all the three should be looked into. Deep sleep, dreaming, and waking, through each of these, what you are is constant.

    This is why I push so much for the dropping of belief as such, where are your beliefs in dream or deep sleep? Where is your family or anything of your life in deep sleep? There is simply nothing there, yet still there is something, you remain.

    Truth cannot be constrained to a belief, for the beliefs are only there in waking state. This is why dreams can become so absurd, they are not constrained, you need not obey gravity, you need not comply with time or anything else, you are beyond all of these, but the waking state is like a collective dream, only that which we as a society or community accept as feasible can actually arise.

    Still, in deep sleep - something all genuine seekers need to understand - none of this is there, consciousness itself isn't there. Awareness is the only thing still functioning in this state, but we cannot be conscious of it because consciousness isn't there.

    If we can be without consciousness, consciousness cannot be what we are.
     
  2. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    When I am in a deep sleep I am still aware that I am also here. Your talking about the location of the spirit being the deep sleep. Consciousness is there. Look at remembering a dream. Your aware that you watched your dream so consciousness does exist on this level.
     
  3. AdvaitaZen

    AdvaitaZen Well-Known Member

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    I have said dreaming and deep sleep are two states, in deep sleep there is no dreaming.

    Stop bringing in these concepts like spirit and soul, see my words as they are rather than trying to correlate them with some other idea.

    Try to simply look at the mind, yet remain separate from it.

    It is just another aspect of the conscious state, no more or less important than everything else you are observing in this moment. Stop putting your thoughts front and center, let reality be front and center.

    Reality is the awareness behind consciousness.

    Reality cannot be observed, it isn't present in consciousness, for it is the source of consciousness.

    All that is there in consciousness is transient, temporary - consciousness itself too.

    That is of course why we suffer, we want the impermanent to remain. We strive for something which is impossible in the very nature of things. We want to believe so much in tales of immortality because at least it seems someday things will become constant in our experience. We want to say there is this thing in us which is permanent.

    The reality is that we exist within what is permanent, but that isn't a thing.

    Actually, it is no-thing-ness, what we truly are is not a thing at all.

    We want to insist it is a thing though, we want so much to be SOMEthing.

    This is the basic problem we are seeking to solve through life.
     
  4. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    This is deep sleep when you dream. If your talking about death when death occurs the spirit , consciousness separates from the body and that is the only time the body is in the kind of deep sleep your talking about. then you have ghosts. When buddha talked about three things he was referring to the spirit the soul and the body. You find this in all of the religions texts and advanced teachings. Its nothing new. Your quoting from texts I read years ago and I do understand what they mean. I do not understand your reasoning of the texts. What do you mean consciousness is not present in a deep sleep?
     
  5. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    Three States of Consciousness

    Posted on October 23, 2011
    [​IMG]Based on Austrian Psychologist Sigmund Freud’s view, our consciousness can be seen as having three states: id/ego/superego, or unconscious/conscious/superconscious, or lower/middle/upper selves.
    The unconscious state is our hidden self, our shadow/dark side. It is our inner child and all our stored emotions and feelings. This is the realm of dreams, instincts, and memories. The unconscious can be further divided into personal unconscious (our subconscious) and collective unconscious, or the collective memories and symbols of a culture.
    The conscious state is our everyday waking state where logic and mental objectivity exists. This is where we use our mental abilities: thinking, analyzing, learning.
    The superconscious state is our higher/spirit self, our light side. This is where we can access our potential, creativity, and intuition. The abilities that enable us to be the best we can be.
    Related articles


    Is this what your talking about? I understand this as well.
     
  6. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    Who is NOT aware of it. Consciousness, by very nature does not sleep. The portion of the mind which functions as the result of physical processes does indeed sleep, and lose consciousness. Consciousness is a sense of "I", at the same time it is the root of all being. That's the one that is stubbing the toes of the theoretical physicists.

    Seems the answer is fairly obvious: find out what is happening in those moments you black out - and why..... :)
     
  7. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    Obviously all I can give you is my experience, and by nature the answer is going to sound cheesy; because it's MY understanding, developed by my thoughts and experiences. but here ya go:

    Consciousness is the one fundamental reality. Our Creator IS. In higher densities that is not something that needs to be guessed at; His presence is obvious. The lesser densities are "precipitated" in some manner, and by some Action of Ultimate Consciousness (I just made that up to express an idea).
    You can think of Ultimate consciousness as a field; because we have our existence within it, and it is the source of "what" we are as well. But you can also call it particles, because it seems to coagulate into local "droplets", which are self autonomous, yet still a part of the whole.

    Sound Familiar to you? who said I didn't have a sense of humor? But it's true - that's the way I see it. In case I didn't make it clear: we have our existence within the "body" of God, who happens to be so far away from us in vibration, forget getting a peek.
     
  8. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    I can understand your point of view; I can't relate, but I can understand it. In the spirit with which it was offered let me share this as well:
    Not only will a scientist NOT ever be able to point to consciousness and "show" you, but if you never go looking for it, you will never find it.
    Believe me when I tell you: That is absolutely no concern of mine. ":)

    Watch Amit Gaswami - you don't have to believe him, but combine those ideas with deep mind meditation for the next few years, and get back with me.

    It IS a pleasant thing to discover you are a greater being than you could have guessed, but you'll never be unless you wish to be. The alternative is to go easily to the recycler. :) Creation can't afford to produce waste - it's a closed system.
     
  9. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    Now, see. You didn't have to go there.... In a creation set up like clockwork, which allows for free will, you find all sorts hanging about. And I mean All Sorts.
    I am inherently suspicious of beings putting on any type of show. The downside to that is: there's LOTS of beings wanting to put on a show.
    I can appreciate the desire to reach to other places to learn cool stuff, but I want NOTHING I haven't acquired as a result of my work with my subconscious. As I clear away the issues that paralyze my mind, I prove to be quite capable: with no guys in robes to lead me around.

    Please realize you have hit a sore spot. I have friends who have crowds gathered around them, waiting for the opportunity to exert an influence from reaching outwards too much.

    All the answers, all the psychic abilities, all the natural abilities of the human are unlocked by the human - through effort and desire; never as a gift, as that is contrary to Law, and there are "penalties".
     
  10. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    If I can be fully aware and making decisions, completely disconnected from my physical body; In a way which is completely verifiable to myself, well, I will just have to beg to differ. :)
     
  11. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    Your never completely disconnected from your body like the out of body experience you had.
     
  12. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    It occurs to me to ask you this: Why do you go to the experts of the mind to learn about consciousness when they are distinctly different entities?

    Wouldn't it make more sense to go to folks who have been studying consciousness for thousands of years - like the scientists are doing?
    Why not ask a Buddhist instead of a man who had no idea there was a difference between the mind and consciousness?
     
  13. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    Splitting hairs. Where consciousness is, is where you are. If I was not conscious of my body I was not there. Technically you are correct in one way, but perpetrate a misconception in another.
     
  14. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    They are saying as freud did, the same thing as buddha and others said. Just in a different way. Like I told the one I posted that as a response to...its nothing new.
     
  15. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    When one has an out of body experience they can see their body laying there. This has been documented. Everything is a extension of consciousness. The animals, the trees even the rocks. So your body is consciousness but where are you at that moment when you leave your body? You are laying there but also away from your body. What is the misconception that you think I am perpetrating?
     
  16. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    Did you ever see the disney cartoon Hercules? Remember when he goes into the abyss to retrieve the woman he loves and the three witches have a cord? They try to cut the cord , basically try to kill him. There is a cord like that when you have an out of body experience and goes from your body to your spirit of yourself. People who believe in the resurrection say they will get their bodies back. They are still attached to the element of the body by that cord.
     
  17. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    Sorry about the multiple posts. The reason I posted freud is to show that consciousness is present even in a deep sleep. I could have quoted buddha just as easily. That was the whole point of the post. Is was in response to someone saying there is no consciousness in a deep sleep. That is a misconception of what buddha tought and Freuds work is also valid.
     
  18. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    Freud was a crack head. Jung had a solid idea, but it was limited.
     
  19. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    That of distance. Distance in a spiritual setting is an illusion. The term is only used to convey an idea.
     
  20. BrotherMichaelSky

    BrotherMichaelSky Well-Known Member

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    The cord is an illusion of the mind to comfort the vestige of ego with the evolutionary being. There is NO distance - there is no fear of getting lost or not "making it back", because you have gone NOWHERE, but up in vibration.
     

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